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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Legendary quests should never have been doable in LFR. Im hoping with flex around now if they decide to follow a similar path next expansion it will only be Flex/normal/heroic since they'll never make it be "heroic content only" as legendaries should be.
    Yes, cause the "hard" part of the Legendary line in Mists involved raid boss kills... No. The hard part was the solo content, tuned to a Normal-geared player, that LFR players had to either wait til the next tier to beat with gear, or perform above and beyond to complete at a lower-than-target gear level.

    Case in point: Wrathion's fight. Sure, it was easy as hell for my buddy's 535 ilevel Heroic Frost DK, and he one-shot it like it was nothing, didn't even get a mirror image phase. For me at 517 in full LFR Ret gear, was a nightmare, almost hit two image phases, cheesed the first through class mechanics (Blinding Light to interrupt one cast, Hammer of Justice for a second, and got lucky on the third and hit the real one quick), and wiped about 50 times to complete it. And I am by no means a "bad" player, so do not even try that line. I just lack a schedule to dedicate to a guild (leaving for work at 9pm PST 5 days a week doesn't make you desirable).

    This new Legendary method allows those with dedication and patience, regardless of their level of progression, to eventually earn it. How is it bad that other people get to have some fun and earn something cool too? Oh right... you miss being a "special snowflake"... Suck it up and deal with it. Sucks you had to pay for the whole YEAR of WoW to keep up on the quest line, and not just get your Legendary in 4.2 that carries you completely through 4.3, never needing an upgrade.

    This model is easily the best model Blizzard has come up with: Time, dedication, effort, persistence, and PERSONAL skill (see: Solo scenarios). My only request: No more PvP quests for PvE content.
    Last edited by ZeroEdgeir; 2013-10-05 at 01:04 AM.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Why? Because LFR lacks any sort of challenge, whereas with previous legendaries there was a reasonable amount of challenge mixed in with a long tedious grind. As it stands now, if you played through the first two tiers of content for a couple of months, there should be no reason why you *don't* have the legendary lol.... which is weird when you think about it. Why should the game hand out legendaries to people that just played for a few consecutive months? And yes, past legendaries like thunderfury are a joke to get now too, but the difference is, this legendary was a joke to get on the day of it's release.
    So it's not about the fact that LFRers get the legendary, it's about the fact that they get it at the same time you do.

    Sounds like we've got a case of special snowflake.

    Let's put it this way:

    Did I grind out the bosses? Yes.
    Did I get frustrated from RNG not dropping the item? Yes.
    Did I beat the snot out of Wrathion and the Celestials? Yes.

    Were you in ANY way deprived of your legendary because it was made available through LFR? No.
    Were you denied GETTING your legendary through LFR? No.
    Are you acting like a butt hurt elitist? Absolutely.

    Ultimately, your sole reason for denying the majority of players a chance at a legendary is because... the bosses that drop the item weren't that hard.
    Newsflash: now that everyone's geared at 535 minimum, if the legendary wasn't available to LFR people, they would just simply run the raids on normal and faceroll it that way.

    What's the difference?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Time commitment? You were already raiding be it LFR normal or heroic. There was no extra time commitment.
    Lol wut?

    Are you saying LFR and Heroic raids take the same amount of time? Makes sense. I can clear every LFR for ToT in one day for a few hours... and it took me three days at 5 hours each to properly get a handle on Durmurmrurmurmrur. Obviously takes the same time.

    ON TOPIC: Legendaries have never required solo content prior to this. They have always been a group effort. The fact that the cloak added such a heavy emphasis on solo adds the appeal that what you accomplished wasn't because you were carried, but because you took the time and effort to collect everything on your own.

    Moreover - I play Alliance and PvE.

    I literally spent WEEKS on those 2 BGs. I don't think I've ever done anything as challenging as that, and I'm fairly certain that that was the hardest part of the entire chain.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    The fight with the black prince is hard? We all agree skill is subjective, but how many people do you know that were stuck on that quest for a month? For a week? For a day? For an hour? Aside from LFR, you have to win 2 bg's, and like the other guy said, 3 man an elite lol. The fact that people think that is a "legendary effort" goes to show that a great deal of the fan base has gone to the dogs.
    Your posts reveal you don't know the quest line at all.. beyond the elite, the bgs and valor grind, there are 50 boss drops you need and 40 trillium bars through out. The 50 boss drops take time, a lot of time! You could argue they require little effort but it takes a lot of time my friend! And lets not forget grinding exalted with the Black Prince as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Really, if you just do PvE for a few months, almost nothing is stopping you from getting the legendary unless you go out of your way to not get it.
    You could make this argument for any legendary in the past as well...
    Last edited by Eugenik; 2013-10-05 at 05:18 PM.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    I'm sorry what???? DW had solo components which did take individual skill. Daggers as well and honestly some of those were harder than anything you did with the cloak. Hell once again getting into BT sure you could be carried, but people weren't randomly on those quest chains in SMV you needed to find people to do them with you.

    I just love the massive ignorance of people talking about this cloak taking skill or work to get.
    Oh right DW did have a solo thing...and it was just as easy as cloak. I had forgotten! Didn't do daggers, rogue is still in the 70's =P So cloak is no harder to get than those. Which weren't hard to get then. Just rarer as you didn't have the entire raid working on it at the same time.


    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    lol, either you just started the game or you aren't serious. You think getting all the way up to Kil'jaeden and killing him was easy? Or doing naxx 40 for the Atiesh staff?. If you really think that's the same as winning 2 bg's and doing LFR for a few months, we probably won't have much in common to discuss lol.
    Guy my main is in my signature. Anyone can see when I started. Naxx 40 was hard because of broken classes and Vanilla's rampant over tuning. You may prefer over tuning...I prefer lots of mechanics.

    Sunwell...welp my guild had some serious drama that knocked us from top 2-5 on the server to a guild that could barely do Kara. I think I only ever saw the first 4 bosses when it was relevant.
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    So it's not about the fact that LFRers get the legendary, it's about the fact that they get it at the same time you do.

    Sounds like we've got a case of special snowflake.

    Let's put it this way:

    Did I grind out the bosses? Yes.
    Did I get frustrated from RNG not dropping the item? Yes.
    Did I beat the snot out of Wrathion and the Celestials? Yes.

    Were you in ANY way deprived of your legendary because it was made available through LFR? No.
    Were you denied GETTING your legendary through LFR? No.
    Are you acting like a butt hurt elitist? Absolutely.

    Ultimately, your sole reason for denying the majority of players a chance at a legendary is because... the bosses that drop the item weren't that hard.
    Newsflash: now that everyone's geared at 535 minimum, if the legendary wasn't available to LFR people, they would just simply run the raids on normal and faceroll it that way.

    What's the difference?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Lol wut?

    Are you saying LFR and Heroic raids take the same amount of time? Makes sense. I can clear every LFR for ToT in one day for a few hours... and it took me three days at 5 hours each to properly get a handle on Durmurmrurmurmrur. Obviously takes the same time.

    ON TOPIC: Legendaries have never required solo content prior to this. They have always been a group effort. The fact that the cloak added such a heavy emphasis on solo adds the appeal that what you accomplished wasn't because you were carried, but because you took the time and effort to collect everything on your own.

    Moreover - I play Alliance and PvE.

    I literally spent WEEKS on those 2 BGs. I don't think I've ever done anything as challenging as that, and I'm fairly certain that that was the hardest part of the entire chain.


    It's mostly about a LFR legendary, the fact that you saw hundreds getting it on the day it was released is the after effect. As for the "you just want gear and want nobody else to get it", honestly, I think it would be more interesting if the legendary had some challenges tied to it, even if it meant I didn't end up getting it myself. Think about it, in a game where you progress yourself with gear, obviously challenging content should reward better gear. So then why make one of the best items in the game so easy to get?


    And did you do a long grind? Yes. Did you earn it? I'm sure you and me will disagree on the answer lol.

    Think of it this way, if in BC, they mailed in everyone a set of warglaives, they wouldn't be as interesting or as valuable in the eyes of many players. Same thing here, it just makes the legendary uninteresting... on the day it was released lol.



    As for the solo content here.... let's get real here, none of it provides a challenge, besides winning 2 bg's, which isn't a *huge* thing when you think about it lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Your posts reveal you don't know the quest line at all.. beyond the elite, the bgs and valor grind, there are 50 boss drops you need and 40 trillium bars through out. The 50 boss drops take time, a lot of time! You could argue they require little effort but it takes a lot of time my friend! And lets not forget grinding exalted with the Black Prince as well...



    You could make this argument for any legendary in the past as well...

    I did mention that there was a long tedious grind, one that can be cheesed thru LFR lol. The solo part is still easy, just time consuming. As for "you could make this argument for any legendary".... I've never seen another legendary that was guaranteed before, so no, you can't make that argument. Also, you couldn't cheese legendaries through easier versions of the raid lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    Guy my main is in my signature. Anyone can see when I started. Naxx 40 was hard because of broken classes and Vanilla's rampant over tuning. You may prefer over tuning...I prefer lots of mechanics.

    Sunwell...welp my guild had some serious drama that knocked us from top 2-5 on the server to a guild that could barely do Kara. I think I only ever saw the first 4 bosses when it was relevant.

    That's my point though, actually clearing something like Kil'jaeden is an actual achievement, and IMO is enough justification for dropping a legendary on it's own. Was no small task to even *get* to that boss.... compare that to LFR where you hit a queue button.

  6. #126
    I feel it's not legendary, if everyone can get them (and by everyone, i mean everyone - all classes and specs).

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Legendary quests should never have been doable in LFR. Im hoping with flex around now if they decide to follow a similar path next expansion it will only be Flex/normal/heroic since they'll never make it be "heroic content only" as legendaries should be.
    Why "should" it be heroic only? What reason for this is there, other than to satisfy the top percents ego?
    I dont have it, since i just started playing again a month or so ago, but from what i heard, it took the better part of a year to get to the point where they are now, simply because of the time it took.
    Getting the blades from Illidan wasn't hard either, it was just a matter of luck, so i preffer the way it is nowdays.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Snip
    I've said it time and again.

    Have a few versions of the legendary.

    LFR version requires LFR Lei-shen and LFR Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
    Normal mode version requires Normal Lei-shen and Normal Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
    Heroic mode version requires Heroic Lei-shen and Heroic Sha of fear to be eligible for the legendary.

    Each one has dif ilevel with LFR one being the lowest of the 3. 3 separate rewards for the 3 different kills you made but everyones rewarded in some manner.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I've said it time and again.

    Have a few versions of the legendary.

    LFR version requires LFR Lei-shen and LFR Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
    Normal mode version requires Normal Lei-shen and Normal Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
    Heroic mode version requires Heroic Lei-shen and Heroic Sha of fear to be eligible for the legendary.

    Each one has dif ilevel with LFR one being the lowest of the 3. 3 separate rewards for the 3 different kills you made but everyones rewarded in some manner.
    What's the point of having different levels, its a legendary, its suppose to be 1 of a kind. What bothers most people is that everyone has their "one of a kind", the point is you still want to feel "Special". If thats the case then make the legendary quest line scale in difficulty according to the raiders preference...so your Heroic mode version of the legendary quests will be extremely near impossible, outrageously difficult to do. There you get your special snowflake award.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    What's the point of having different levels, its a legendary, its suppose to be 1 of a kind. What bothers most people is that everyone has their "one of a kind", the point is you still want to feel "Special". If thats the case then make the legendary quest line scale in difficulty according to the raiders preference...so your Heroic mode version of the legendary quests will be extremely near impossible, outrageously difficult to do. There you get your special snowflake award.
    The idea behind the levels is to reward each difficulty level with the appropriate item! No doubt we will see changes to the next one. So far I think its a cool way of getting a legendary. the final items a bit "meh" as I will most likely transmog it but the procs cools.

  11. #131
    I think the current model for the legendary, which anyone can get with enough effort is a good approach. It doesn't have to be tied to raiding a specific difficulty. It should be based on just alot of effort. The one thing i would change would be to get rid of the raid boss grinding for items. I don't mind it being a grind, but raid boss RNG drop grinds are really annoying. I'd rather just make it more grindy, but a guaranteed item after a certain amount of grinding.

    Also, please get over yourselves with your "it shouldn't be obtainable in LFR" cries. Doing the legendary stuff in LFR should be commended because it is actually more of a pain in there then it is in an actual organized raid. And I'm not just an LFR raider. I raid Flex/Normal, but I realized that LFR can be brutal because of derps. I feel the pain of people that only do LFR.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    making the legendary such a long grind only penalises returning subscribers who feel they cannot catch up and will therefore be at a disadvantage for a very long time and may infact just give up
    And making it RNG penalises people who are unlucky, which means you can be the best player in the world but never get it
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I've said it time and again.

    Have a few versions of the legendary.

    LFR version requires LFR Lei-shen and LFR Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
    Normal mode version requires Normal Lei-shen and Normal Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
    Heroic mode version requires Heroic Lei-shen and Heroic Sha of fear to be eligible for the legendary.

    Each one has dif ilevel with LFR one being the lowest of the 3. 3 separate rewards for the 3 different kills you made but everyones rewarded in some manner.
    This is a fine solution, especially since it would prevent normal-mode raiders from "having" to run LFR to collect RNG drops. They already have this sort of system in place for the heirloom Garrosh drops, might as well carry it forward.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    So then why make one of the best items in the game so easy to get?
    You are assuming a strawman lfr raider in a theoretical scenario to demonstrate your assertion that the item is "easy" to get. How many of the hundreds who got it at the start of 5.4 do you honestly believe got it by afking through at least 50 LFR instances? How many LFR heroes with zero skill and no normal mode ToT gear do you think one shotted the Wrathion solo encounter?

    Anyone with an ounce of common sense will recognise that hundreds who got the cloak at the start of 5.4 were either:

    a) the cream of the LFR-only crop
    b) at least reasonably successful normal mode raiders (the top 5% of the playerbase)

    Regardless, no matter who you were, you were going to need a certain minimum level of skill and a significant commitment of time and effort over the preceding 9 months to have been in a position to obtain the cloak on "day 1".

    There is a world of difference between easily accessible and easily obtainable and you confuse the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    And did you do a long grind? Yes. Did you earn it? I'm sure you and me will disagree on the answer lol.
    Yes, because clearly those who disagree with you have a functional brain. lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Think of it this way, if in BC, they mailed in everyone a set of warglaives, they wouldn't be as interesting or as valuable in the eyes of many players. Same thing here, it just makes the legendary uninteresting... on the day it was released lol.
    Strawman argument 101. lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    As for the solo content here.... let's get real here, none of it provides a challenge, besides winning 2 bg's, which isn't a *huge* thing when you think about it lol.
    For a "LFR Hero" decked out in LFR gear the solo encounter was hardly trivial.
    For a raider in ilevel 530 gear, yeah, I guess the encounter would likely have been trivial. But then again, as said above, someone in that kind of gear already has the credentials to prove that they have a clue.

    Have you even put any thought into your argument? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I did mention that there was a long tedious grind, one that can be cheesed thru LFR lol. The solo part is still easy, just time consuming. As for "you could make this argument for any legendary".... I've never seen another legendary that was guaranteed before, so no, you can't make that argument. Also, you couldn't cheese legendaries through easier versions of the raid lol.
    Oh, you mean like going and getting say: Thunderfury: Blessed Blade of the Windseeker solo today? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    That's my point though, actually clearing something like Kil'jaeden is an actual achievement, and IMO is enough justification for dropping a legendary on it's own. Was no small task to even *get* to that boss.... compare that to LFR where you hit a queue button.
    Again: STRAWMAN. How many people, on patch day 5.4, had simply pushed the LFR button 50 times and voila, landed up with a legendary? Ok, I am sure there was probably one or two out there somewhere. But the vast majority (99.9%+) didn't.

    The majority were normal or heroic raiders who had been raiding successfully for 9 months. A small minority were LFR raiders who probably busted their asses through 50+ LFR instance carrying those who were sitting afk in the corner because they have deluded themselves into believing that actually participating in that content is below them.

    Yup, believe it or not, LFR bosses don't actually fall down all by themselves. They die because there are actually people in there, a lot of us actually, who are not worthless scrubs doing 30K dps and standing in fire. We carried the bads (who are not getting cloaks anyway), as well as the lazy, narcissistic normal mode heroes who felt entitled to afk through their LFR's (and who would be nothing raiders if not for their guilds carrying them anyway).


    All that being said, I am not opposed to the idea of a special reward (above and beyond the cloak) reserved for top end raiders. But the cloak, as is, is an easily justifiable reward for the effort it took to get it and was a brilliant part of the MoP experience.

    To say that people who got their cloaks don't deserve them is either disingenuous or retarded. You choose.

  15. #135
    I don't like the new legendaries because it feels like Siege was tuned around them. I do understand that that needed to be the case, because the legendary was going to be so common in raids that if the encounters weren't tuned for it they'd be a joke. But the downside is that it means for an altoholic like me that because I wasn't grinding out legendaries on every one of my alts for the entire expansion, my alts are now more or less useless in anything above LFR.
    Last edited by exolaris; 2013-10-07 at 04:01 PM.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozzu View Post
    Why "should" it be heroic only? What reason for this is there, other than to satisfy the top percents ego?
    I dont have it, since i just started playing again a month or so ago, but from what i heard, it took the better part of a year to get to the point where they are now, simply because of the time it took.
    Getting the blades from Illidan wasn't hard either, it was just a matter of luck, so i preffer the way it is nowdays.
    It shouldn't, it;s just that almost all of these people complaining and passing for game experts don't even know that "Legendary" (or epic etc) refer to the quailty of gear and not it's rareness. All this confusion is created because the lower quality ones are called, "common" "rare" etc.

    If you see it in this light, everyone that is upset that legendaries are "common" has false exceptions and thus is acting buthurt.

    I Will even argue for a "legendary" weapon (or armor) being able to be crafted (collaboration of many rare recipes etc) without even having access to raiding. After all those "Hard Legendaries" you pick-up in raids were created once in their lifetime so the argument that everything should come from raids is plain wrong.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    i find it annoying that the speed with wich you got your legendary quest done was purely decided by luck. imo a heroic boss should have higher droprate then a lfr boss.
    That sounds sensible...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    I feel it's not legendary, if everyone can get them (and by everyone, i mean everyone - all classes and specs).
    Guess everyone has their (and be it illogical) reasons why something "feels" legendary. I'd say the Ulduar mace felt totally not legendary because it got obsolete quick-ish.

    This legendary chain is a personal chain. No idea why the quest for Shadowmourne feels epic only because one guy in your raid who is not you got it. Did it feel epic for you helping him? The journey for the legendary cloak is a long one. It makes multiple visits to raid Instances necessary and some solo effort.

    Well..at the end of the day, a topic with 125 contradicting "solutions". Let us all be glad we are not game designers and have to deal with people like us ^^
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    So, in short: the internet.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    It's mostly about a LFR legendary, the fact that you saw hundreds getting it on the day it was released is the after effect. As for the "you just want gear and want nobody else to get it", honestly, I think it would be more interesting if the legendary had some challenges tied to it, even if it meant I didn't end up getting it myself. Think about it, in a game where you progress yourself with gear, obviously challenging content should reward better gear. So then why make one of the best items in the game so easy to get?


    And did you do a long grind? Yes. Did you earn it? I'm sure you and me will disagree on the answer lol.

    Think of it this way, if in BC, they mailed in everyone a set of warglaives, they wouldn't be as interesting or as valuable in the eyes of many players. Same thing here, it just makes the legendary uninteresting... on the day it was released lol.



    As for the solo content here.... let's get real here, none of it provides a challenge, besides winning 2 bg's, which isn't a *huge* thing when you think about it lol.
    Again, you make the point that "everybody gets it and its too easy to get". You could say this about ANY legendary after its no longer current content. So the issue isn't that LFRers get it, but that they get it at the same time as you.

    You think because I got my items on LFR that it wasn't earned? LK heroic had guarantee drops for its items, which means you knew exactly when the legendary was going to be completed. I ran ToT nearly every week, doing every single boss, and when they implemented the guarantee drop, I still only had three Secrets. The RNG was miserable. And this is assuming, of course, that we could actually down Lei Shen. There are still many LFR groups that need at least 3 stacks of Determination to pull it off.

    On the day it was released? You are completely off point here. It's not like 5.4 hit and people went from 1 Sigil of Power to a legendary. People have working on this for.... almost a year. It's absurd. No legendary has ever taken this long to complete. The fact that people were able to get the legendary on release means that they were grinding for so long to get it.

    The Celestial challenge COULD NOT be completed by a window licking LFRer who AFKs every fight. It simply could not. I'm a dedicated player who leads/tanks/carries LFRs, full decked in upgraded 530 gear (some 535) and even I had trouble with coordination.

    Winning 2 BGs is a huge thing... when you play Alliance. I did the Mines BG at least 30 times. I earned enough honor from losing to buy myself the entire previous tier of PVP gear. I did the ToT dailies until I had enough conquest to buy a decent weapon. Do you know how many days that is? Earning 50 conquest a day to get a weapon?

    I have literally not worked so hard for so long in WoW as I have on this legendary.

    You're being ridiculous. If you have a dedicated Heroic Raiding guild in your pocket that lets you burn through top tier content, great for you. You get to experience everything the game has to offer. But for you to so casually deny the work that others have put it because it's "not on your level" makes you come across as an elitist, a sore-winner.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    The Celestial challenge COULD NOT be completed by a window licking LFRer who AFKs every fight. It simply could not. I'm a dedicated player who leads/tanks/carries LFRs, full decked in upgraded 530 gear (some 535) and even I had trouble with coordination.
    Rofl I think you severely overestimate your abilities if you had trouble on that itemlvl on those quests.
    Anyways sure now that we have afk legendaries available for everyone we should definitely make efforts to get the developers to produce an even higher tier of items I can get by not lifting a finger.

  20. #140
    What I hate about old style legendaries was their epic questline. Legendary questlines are lore-heavy and quite good imo, so missing them out either because you are not eligible for the item or you don't have a dedicated raiding guild (which I don't since first months of Cata). So my favorite is TBC-style legendaries. Make it super-rare drops and make it heroic only as well. And your legendaries feels really legendary.
    As for MoP style, I really like questline. So I say keep such a questline for everyone to experience as well. Don't reward any real item but reward things like gems and enchantments as well, so everyone gets to see the content. And only few lucky players has the real legendaries of the expansion.

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