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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Rofl I think you severely overestimate your abilities if you had trouble on that itemlvl on those quests.
    Anyways sure now that we have afk legendaries available for everyone we should definitely make efforts to get the developers to produce an even higher tier of items I can get by not lifting a finger.


    Regardless, it is fair to say that the average LFR player could not do the DPS challenge in 502 gear (prenerf). The other two, possibly. Now, 502 should be more doable and even 496 from timeless isle presuming perfect itemization, however players still suck.

    In fact, I doubt a majority of the player base is able to do the step in the thunderforge from what I witness constantly in LFR/Randoms.

    Just look at the number of players who aren't even aware of the legendary chain in the first place and who, even after sending them a link to wowhead, still don't know what's going on. (I don't know about your experience, but first week or two of the patch I got several dozen tells asking me how I got my cloak and most didn't even understand what "legendary questline" meant. I even had someone ask me if I could craft the cloak for them because it said "Made by xxx" on the item.)
    Last edited by Vladimeir; 2013-10-07 at 04:37 PM.

  2. #142
    I love the fact i got the same legendary cloak as every heroic raider who plays the game, when i only raid LFR because i don't have the time to raid higher than that. they feel threatened because inside wow is the only time they feel powerful, and god forbid us normal wow folk could possibly be as 'powerful' as them

  3. #143
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    This method of legendary was fine other than A) Requiring RNG drops for every goddamn thing, and B) The 3k (originally 6k) forced valor gating that REQUIRES you to wait x many weeks, no matter what you do.
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  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimeir View Post
    Regardless, it is fair to say that the average LFR player could not do the DPS challenge in 502 gear (prenerf). The other two, possibly. Now, 502 should be more doable and even 496 from timeless isle presuming perfect itemization, however players still suck.

    In fact, I doubt a majority of the player base is able to do the step in the thunderforge from what I witness constantly in LFR.
    Maybe. I wouldn't mistake though players having no reason to not suck in lfr with players being really not able to complete a simple quest. Also you probably already had a higher lvl from just running lfr and valor spending.
    On the latter issue I didn't really had that experience on any of the servers I play on.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    You are assuming a strawman lfr raider in a theoretical scenario to demonstrate your assertion that the item is "easy" to get. How many of the hundreds who got it at the start of 5.4 do you honestly believe got it by afking through at least 50 LFR instances? How many LFR heroes with zero skill and no normal mode ToT gear do you think one shotted the Wrathion solo encounter?

    Anyone with an ounce of common sense will recognise that hundreds who got the cloak at the start of 5.4 were either:

    a) the cream of the LFR-only crop
    b) at least reasonably successful normal mode raiders (the top 5% of the playerbase)

    Regardless, no matter who you were, you were going to need a certain minimum level of skill and a significant commitment of time and effort over the preceding 9 months to have been in a position to obtain the cloak on "day 1".

    There is a world of difference between easily accessible and easily obtainable and you confuse the two.



    Yes, because clearly those who disagree with you have a functional brain. lol.



    Strawman argument 101. lol.



    For a "LFR Hero" decked out in LFR gear the solo encounter was hardly trivial.
    For a raider in ilevel 530 gear, yeah, I guess the encounter would likely have been trivial. But then again, as said above, someone in that kind of gear already has the credentials to prove that they have a clue.

    Have you even put any thought into your argument? lol



    Oh, you mean like going and getting say: Thunderfury: Blessed Blade of the Windseeker solo today? lol



    Again: STRAWMAN. How many people, on patch day 5.4, had simply pushed the LFR button 50 times and voila, landed up with a legendary? Ok, I am sure there was probably one or two out there somewhere. But the vast majority (99.9%+) didn't.

    The majority were normal or heroic raiders who had been raiding successfully for 9 months. A small minority were LFR raiders who probably busted their asses through 50+ LFR instance carrying those who were sitting afk in the corner because they have deluded themselves into believing that actually participating in that content is below them.

    Yup, believe it or not, LFR bosses don't actually fall down all by themselves. They die because there are actually people in there, a lot of us actually, who are not worthless scrubs doing 30K dps and standing in fire. We carried the bads (who are not getting cloaks anyway), as well as the lazy, narcissistic normal mode heroes who felt entitled to afk through their LFR's (and who would be nothing raiders if not for their guilds carrying them anyway).


    All that being said, I am not opposed to the idea of a special reward (above and beyond the cloak) reserved for top end raiders. But the cloak, as is, is an easily justifiable reward for the effort it took to get it and was a brilliant part of the MoP experience.

    To say that people who got their cloaks don't deserve them is either disingenuous or retarded. You choose.
    You bring up a straw man argument, but when I say the legendary is easy, I'm not kidding lol. I've never heard of anyone that said "I won't get the legendary because it's too hard". I've seen people say it's a long and tedious grind, but when I say it's too easy, I mean "anyone that wants it can get it as long as they do the grind". The wrathion encounter IMO, gets way too much credit lol. Seriously, do you honestly know anyone that was stuck on that thing for a few weeks? How about for a few days? I'm figuring probably not.

    And with ToT being around for 6 months, completing that portion of the quest in time is not "a straw man" lol.


    Getting Thunderfury today is a joke, I'm not saying it's hard lol. Getting it back in MC was a totally different story, you couldn't cheese the raid by doing it on an easier mode to get the item. That's the big difference. Man you sure like the word "straw man".


    As for people cheesing it thru LFR, the encounters are designed for you to beat them. And if you don't, you get a buff that makes it easier the next time, essentially getting rewarded for doing bad. Why that should be involved in getting a legendary is beyond me lol.

    And saying that people don't deserve legendaries for doing LFR isn't a bad statement lol. Strictly my opinion just like you got yours, but let's get real here, giving out a legendary for doing LFR? Really?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    Again, you make the point that "everybody gets it and its too easy to get". You could say this about ANY legendary after its no longer current content. So the issue isn't that LFRers get it, but that they get it at the same time as you.

    You think because I got my items on LFR that it wasn't earned? LK heroic had guarantee drops for its items, which means you knew exactly when the legendary was going to be completed. I ran ToT nearly every week, doing every single boss, and when they implemented the guarantee drop, I still only had three Secrets. The RNG was miserable. And this is assuming, of course, that we could actually down Lei Shen. There are still many LFR groups that need at least 3 stacks of Determination to pull it off.

    On the day it was released? You are completely off point here. It's not like 5.4 hit and people went from 1 Sigil of Power to a legendary. People have working on this for.... almost a year. It's absurd. No legendary has ever taken this long to complete. The fact that people were able to get the legendary on release means that they were grinding for so long to get it.

    The Celestial challenge COULD NOT be completed by a window licking LFRer who AFKs every fight. It simply could not. I'm a dedicated player who leads/tanks/carries LFRs, full decked in upgraded 530 gear (some 535) and even I had trouble with coordination.

    Winning 2 BGs is a huge thing... when you play Alliance. I did the Mines BG at least 30 times. I earned enough honor from losing to buy myself the entire previous tier of PVP gear. I did the ToT dailies until I had enough conquest to buy a decent weapon. Do you know how many days that is? Earning 50 conquest a day to get a weapon?

    I have literally not worked so hard for so long in WoW as I have on this legendary.

    You're being ridiculous. If you have a dedicated Heroic Raiding guild in your pocket that lets you burn through top tier content, great for you. You get to experience everything the game has to offer. But for you to so casually deny the work that others have put it because it's "not on your level" makes you come across as an elitist, a sore-winner.

    I agree that any legendary is easy to get after it's no longer current content, the problem here though is that this legendary *is* current content.


    People say that LFR guys don't earn the cloak because in LFR, you get rewarded for failing on bosses with determination, and for the most part, the place is set up for you to beat. I guess this is the part where you and me are going to disagree lol. Based off the fact that LFR has little skill involved, to me it only makes sense that you shouldn't get handed a legendary.



    And I totally agree, the grind was long, but I don't think a long grind should guarantee a legendary. There's all sorts of long grinds in the game, hell even getting to 90 would be considered a long grind by many. While a long grind should have a good reward, without challenges, handing out a legendary is just over doing it.



    And think about your statement about the celestials... "you can't afk for it"... is that really saying a lot about it? lol, is that what this game has come to.... "well I had to take 15 minutes to kill a boss, which was a part of the very long grind in LFR, so I guess I should get the legendary".



    Do you think someone should get a legendary for hitting 90? After all, that can take a while, and there's some parts of the leveling process that people might think are hard.

  6. #146
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    I've never heard of anyone that said "I won't get the legendary because it's too hard".
    I've seen many posts by people saying they gave up on this stage or that for this exact reason. Mostly the PVP quest.

    And saying that people don't deserve legendaries for doing LFR isn't a bad statement lol. Strictly my opinion just like you got yours, but let's get real here, giving out a legendary for doing LFR? Really?
    You realize many people dropped into LFR to collect runestones because their normal group couldn't clear the instance for a long time, yes?

    Do you think someone should get a legendary for hitting 90? After all, that can take a while, and there's some parts of the leveling process that people might think are hard.
    This is just facetious and borderline trolling. Has anyone ever suggested any meaningful reward at all for leveling to cap?

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimson View Post
    I've seen many posts by people saying they gave up on this stage or that for this exact reason. Mostly the PVP quest.



    You realize many people dropped into LFR to collect runestones because their normal group couldn't clear the instance for a long time, yes?



    This is just facetious and borderline trolling. Has anyone ever suggested any meaningful reward at all for leveling to cap?

    Alright, I'll admit the PvP one I have seen people who just flat out refuse to do pvp have stated they will not do it. But beyond that, I've never seen someone say something like "Man this LFR part of the chain is too hard to complete". Keep in mind, you have to only win 2 battle grounds, I don't think that's really as ground breaking as people think it is.


    As for running LFR to collect runestones, that's my point lol, allowing the questline to be cheesed like that is what devalued the reward.



    As for the legendary at 90, I'm just demonstrating that the logic behind "LFR guys earned the cloak" is silly using the same logic that the people in this thread have used. After all, some people have been playing since vanilla or BC, so it was literally 7 or 8 years before they hit 90, and they encountered many challenges along the way.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonecloak View Post
    Now I know a lot of people prefer the old model of legendary's, and some who enjoy the new approach. Well how about the best of both worlds. Have an expansion long questline ending with a legendary, and a legendary for a specific class. You could even call it something else. A higher tier than legendary.
    I think the very long quest chain mechanic was very appropriate. The letdown is that it's a cloak... folks (including me) seem to associate legendaries with weapons, given the history of them in game.

    I actually expect them to follow up with another quest chain, with probably even more various tasks to complete through it.
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Alright, I'll admit the PvP one I have seen people who just flat out refuse to do pvp have stated they will not do it. But beyond that, I've never seen someone say something like "Man this LFR part of the chain is too hard to complete". Keep in mind, you have to only win 2 battle grounds, I don't think that's really as ground breaking as people think it is.


    As for running LFR to collect runestones, that's my point lol, allowing the questline to be cheesed like that is what devalued the reward.



    As for the legendary at 90, I'm just demonstrating that the logic behind "LFR guys earned the cloak" is silly using the same logic that the people in this thread have used. After all, some people have been playing since vanilla or BC, so it was literally 7 or 8 years before they hit 90, and they encountered many challenges along the way.
    I agree with you on the PVP quest. But to each their own.

    Interesting point on "cheesing" the questline by running LFR. If the solution posted above (where each raid difficulty had its own level reward), this would not be the case. Also note that people in LFR are not "cheesing" anything. That is their maximum intended difficulty level. In this case, it's normal raiders creating the problem they are complaining about.

    And to your leveling point... just stop. It's not even remotely the same logic and I suspect you know that.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Eike View Post
    legendaries should be heroic only, no point in giving it to a normal/flex/lfr raiders, they won't even get a chance to properly use them.
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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimson View Post
    I agree with you on the PVP quest. But to each their own.

    Interesting point on "cheesing" the questline by running LFR. If the solution posted above (where each raid difficulty had its own level reward), this would not be the case. Also note that people in LFR are not "cheesing" anything. That is their maximum intended difficulty level. In this case, it's normal raiders creating the problem they are complaining about.

    And to your leveling point... just stop. It's not even remotely the same logic and I suspect you know that.

    The cheesing factor from LFR comes into play not because it's the intended difficulty, but rather because the place is so easy, that even if you fail, you get buffs. So pretty much in essence you are all but guaranteed a legend (so long as you can win 2 bg's). IMO, something is wrong with that, I'm sure some will think its' perfectly fine though.


    And yes, it's the same logic. People are saying "well, it was hard for me dammit and it took awhile", you can apply that logic to almost anything in the game and say "well that guy that does pet battles a lot, he deserves a legendary too" lol.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    The cheesing factor from LFR comes into play not because it's the intended difficulty, but rather because the place is so easy, that even if you fail, you get buffs. So pretty much in essence you are all but guaranteed a legend (so long as you can win 2 bg's). IMO, something is wrong with that, I'm sure some will think its' perfectly fine though.
    It's the time commitment that makes it difficult. It is by far longer than any other legendary chain has been in the past. Yes, it is easier but it took an entire expansion to get here instead of just one tier.

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  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I feel obligated to say "now this is really nonsense" again lol. Have you done normal mode raids? In LFR the mechanics are almost non-existant, and you can /afk if you want to. That's why a lot of people refer to it as a "welfare legendary". Guys that do 30k dps, can get this legendary, as long as they just do LFR for the week. Is the grind long? Definitely, but doesn't change the fact that it lacked challenge.
    Like say the challenge involved when guilds had raids on farm and were selling runs through raids for people to get "their" legendary? Happened for mounts, quest drops, etc...

    How legendary was it for someone to get a warglaive for example, the first and only time they ran BT? I have seen the glaives several times since starting to solo BT, on a hunter, so it become legendary vendor trash....

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    It's the time commitment that makes it difficult. It is by far longer than any other legendary chain has been in the past. Yes, it is easier but it took an entire expansion to get here instead of just one tier.


    I guess we will agree to disagree, it definitely was a long grind, but IMO there were very few real challenges involved. Also, it didn't take the entire expansion, it only took 2 tiers of content (there are 3).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by uopayroll View Post
    Like say the challenge involved when guilds had raids on farm and were selling runs through raids for people to get "their" legendary? Happened for mounts, quest drops, etc...

    How legendary was it for someone to get a warglaive for example, the first and only time they ran BT? I have seen the glaives several times since starting to solo BT, on a hunter, so it become legendary vendor trash....

    I think the thing is though, with something like warglaives, now it's easy because you can just do it at 90. Back in BC, getting to Illidan and actually killing him was a major accomplishment though. The difference is, you can get this current legendary right now through an easy manner, LFR. Some here may argue LFR is hard, I guess that's just a matter of opinion, but I don't think clearing LFR is a major accomplishment in the same way that going through BT and getting Illidan was.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    making the legendary such a long grind only penalises returning subscribers who feel they cannot catch up and will therefore be at a disadvantage for a very long time and may infact just give up
    LOL! you mean like how vanilla legendaries were rng COMBINED with a long grind?
    Besides, why the hell would we reward quitters who come back with a legendary?
    If you quite and came back, that's your issue.
    Or did you prefer that quitting and coming back auto-hands you a legendary?

    I think they should have just put a small ilvl increase on legendary's from h modes all the way down to LFR, but just a few ilvls.
    That way the 'elitists' (yah we know you aren't elite really, b/c if you WERE you'd be happy with the time stamp, like a REAL hardcore), can chill out, and the LFR'ers can still have a taste of the action.
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  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I guess we will agree to disagree, it definitely was a long grind, but IMO there were very few real challenges involved. Also, it didn't take the entire expansion, it only took 2 tiers of content (there are 3).
    I said the grind was the difficult part. You say we'll have to agree to disagree then state that there was a long grind but very few difficult challenges so you are in fact agreeing with me completely.

    And yes, you're right, technically SoO had no bearing on the legendary. Either way, it was still much longer than any other legendary chain.

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  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    I said the grind was the difficult part. You say we'll have to agree to disagree then state that there was a long grind but very few difficult challenges so you are in fact agreeing with me completely.

    And yes, you're right, technically SoO had no bearing on the legendary. Either way, it was still much longer than any other legendary chain.
    I think there's a difference between a long grind and a long and difficult grind. For example, I did the argent dailies on my 90 to get the different mounts and it took a long time, was a very boring grind, I wouldn't describe it as difficult though. So in that sense, I'm not agreeing with you lol.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I think there's a difference between a long grind and a long and difficult grind. For example, I did the argent dailies on my 90 to get the different mounts and it took a long time, was a very boring grind, I wouldn't describe it as difficult though. So in that sense, I'm not agreeing with you lol.
    Why do you end everything with lol :x

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    And your response didn't even register on my reading comprehension detector.
    Oh rubbish, you don't have to do a single bloody thing that requires any challenge at all. Stop patting yourself on the back. At least the Shadowmourne quest required testing mettle. 3 man a bloody elite in Krasarang and do some BGs, grind valor. So hard. Funny your bullshit meter doesn't work when you spew it.
    Bet you're a casual that has never raided hc lol.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I think there's a difference between a long grind and a long and difficult grind. For example, I did the argent dailies on my 90 to get the different mounts and it took a long time, was a very boring grind, I wouldn't describe it as difficult though. So in that sense, I'm not agreeing with you lol.
    Fair point. However, I'm not saying the grind was difficult itself but the amount of time needed to actually get the legendary, especially if you did it at current content before they buffed the drop rates was what made it "difficult". Difficult perhaps is not the right word but I'd much rather get a legendary that was a random drop like the warglaives over a 2 tier long grind.

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