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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Yes, very well indeed. So H-modes wouldn't have to be that difficult. Let's set up a raid everyone can do it. For those who want challenges, they can group up to experience difficult modes while they wear the same gear as everybody else while the damage of a boss is doubled. Titles and mounts may be awarded, but not gears. They love challenges not gears.
    Are you kidding? The entire reason they explode like babies about LFR is because LFR has gear in it that is purple and has the same name as gear in higher end raids. Its not that the gear in heroic is better its that they don’t feel good about having that gear unless someone else tells them that they are awesome sauce for having that gear. The only way they can get that to happen is to stop people from doing content that gives them crappier versions of that gear. They can't feel good about what they do without someone else to verify that what they did was good.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This has been done to death and I have no desire to rake over old ground however considering how little of the population have ever raided there is no evidence to suggest that difficulty was behind the success of WOW.

    It is not about whether players can or cannot, they don't want to so why should they pay for the 10% or so that do?
    They don't pay for the 10% that do. They pay for the content they consume. Just like the people who raid HC pay for the content they consume. While the HC raiders are off raiding HC, you are doing something else.

    Pretty easy to understand when people don't have their heads in the sand.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Yes, very well indeed. So H-modes don't have to be that difficult. Let's set up a raid everyone can do it. For those who want challenges, they can group up to experience difficult modes while they wear the same gear as everybody else but the damage of a boss is doubled. Titles and mounts may be awarded, but not gears. They love challenges not gears.
    So to boil everything down: you want to rename heroic modes to something else, and not have it award gear...
    Why exactly? I've read your other responses, but I have yet to detract actual reasoning for this want.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This has been done to death and I have no desire to rake over old ground however considering how little of the population have ever raided there is no evidence to suggest that difficulty was behind the success of WOW.

    It is not about whether players can or cannot, they don't want to so why should they pay for the 10% or so that do?
    I know we've had that argument a million times, hence the sarcasm. They don't just pay for Heroic content. They pay for access to the game so they pay for everything. It's up to them to do what they want with their time but it's not up to them to pick and choose what they pay for. You get the game or not. If I got to choose what I pay for, I'd pay 15cents a month for the game since 99% of the game isn't made for people like me where as someone who labels themselves as a 'casual' would be paying $14.85 a month. That wouldn't be very fair, even if it would be amazing to pay for what I liked since I don't play anymore because the game is overall extremely boring.

  5. #185
    Stood in the Fire allatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There is nothing mean spirited or entitled about asking a company to use your own money to satisfy your enjoyment before others .
    'Satisfy your enjoyment before others' - I would say that that is the very definition of an entitled attitude. It is also decidedly mean spirited to demand that your enjoyment comes at the cost of the enjoyment of others simply because you can't join in.
    I don't know the recipe for success, but I know that the recipe for failure is trying to please everyone.

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  6. #186
    So I might say they love showing off and vanity. They do not really love challenges. Great, I want to hear that.As we pay the same and players don't raid H-modes get nothing from players raid h-modes, there is no need to maintain H-modes like this just because it suits 1% of population.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Are you kidding? The entire reason they explode like babies about LFR is because LFR has gear in it that is purple and has the same name as gear in higher end raids. Its not that the gear in heroic is better its that they don’t feel good about having that gear unless someone else tells them that they are awesome sauce for having that gear. The only way they can get that to happen is to stop people from doing content that gives them crappier versions of that gear. They can't feel good about what they do without someone else to verify that what they did was good.
    Last edited by billielecter; 2013-10-04 at 01:45 PM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    I think heroic modes should exist but only as a means to get better transmog gear, titles and mounts. That's how high end PVP is and it's still a real thing. People still do that stuff because of the challenge and the fun of it. They like to go around looking down at the filthy Challengers and Rivals and Duelists and mock them. PVE though keeps getting easier and easier every week because you get gear out of heroic mode when it should only drop the same ilvl as Normal (indeed, all versions should drop the same gear just with a weekly lockout). That way people can just go along with whatever challenge they want. Really sick of seeing 'hardcore raiders' saying they're better than people when they run around in perfectly itemised BiS heroic gear fully upgraded and say "lol ur dps so bad" to people playing perfectly in LFR gear. That is an injustice. You should have to grind the gear, yes, but do it like PVP does it. If you have full Conquest gear but 1200 rating, you're bad. Time was you couldn't even get to higher ratings because people in upgraded elite conquest gear would just stomp you even if they were not good players (or, if they were, still have a huge advantage). PVP kept the gear equal enough so PVE should do the same.

    So if heroic raiders really care about challenge and prestige, they'd be okay with it. They just need to see that 1% of the game's population doesn't matter to anyone else. Nobody else cares what heroic raiders do. They aren't better players, they just spend more time and have more gear. That's all it takes to win. You could argue "hurr durr LFR bads doing 20k dps" but that person is just bad for doing 20k DPS. What if someone does 200k DPS in LFR gear and 400k in better gear from just playing well? Why is that good person's performance lessened by a gear level? If people just want to grind gear, they'll just grind gear. If they want to play harder, why should they then have to grind more gear and have that as a barrier to entry? Why isn't simply playing better enough?

    TL;DR heroic mode serves no purpose, if it's for prestige let it be that and no gear
    It isn't just for that why force it to be? Some people want a more challenging version of the game just like others want to be able to sit afk in LFR and get loot. Let both of them enjoy the game and do their own thing.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by MestHoop View Post
    So to boil everything down: you want to rename heroic modes to something else, and not have it award gear...
    Why exactly? I've read your other responses, but I have yet to detract actual reasoning for this want.
    Because he is a big t... oh wait can't say that. The comment you quoted of him contradicts exactly what he wanted... Maybe to make a point?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    So I might say they love showing off and vanity. They do not really love challenges. Great, I want to hear that.As we pay the same and players don't raid H-modes gets nothing from players raid h-modes, there is no need to maintain H-modes like this just because it suits 1% of population.
    All those sweeping generalizations and accusations with no facts to back it up. Give me something of substance please, not just your opinion.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Oh, do I? Since when I can't use negative words to describe what I think about a company?
    you werent saying it as you thought it was, you were saying it as it were fact

    even so, theyre a how many dollar company?, with the most subscribed to mmorpg, and... what are you?...kinda makes you look so much worse if theyre the retarded ones, eh?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    I find something very funny about people who post in this forum which is they all want thread to be totally objective and non-argumentative. They ask thread to be unbiased, unprejudiced and scientifically based. The odd thing is that there is no existence of that kind of thread before, now and in the future. I doubt whether that thought is the result of western culture or western social behavior which requires our gentlemen to be a little hypocrite and hide their true feelings about the things they actually discuss because it seems to me that they actually don't discuss at all, they just write some words very plain and tedious and hopefully they don't get banned.

    So let's set their over-carefulness aside. As a matter of fact I would't call them discussions at all. I want to say it straightly and directly that heroic raid is the worst thing that Blizzard implanted in this game. The first reason is that it doesn't contribute to any kinds of gaming experience but separating players into different levels and make bunch of so called elites. This game, as a game, doesn't need to be so professional and cutting-edged that requires players to devote their life-time to knock down a boss. Yes, I know Blizzard is elitism, it is always the case and this elitism is rooted deeply in their designing mind.

    And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded in designing a varieties of raids so guess what, he comes up with an brilliant idea that he only needs designing one raid and separates it. So wow, we are so happy to have so many raids but unfortunately it is all the same faces and all the same contents. This alone makes this game much more boring than any time before while at the same time Blizzard is happy in cutting off the budget so he could save some money at the cost of sacrificing its fun. Strangely WOW has became a game that designers cuts off game content for saving money. Don't you tell me it's a smart way to run a company rather than committing suicide.

    Lastly heroic raid isn't heroic at all. It's only a boss piled up with statics which requires you with higher pve gears and more devoting time. I don't see anything may represent heroic here. I only see some players showing off their H-achievement and spending their whole day to be addicted to this game. This is how the anti-social environment generates in this game. Pve should not be the most important part of this game. This is an online game and people should be organized rather than classified. Blizzard is trying to make raid hard and difficult to please hard-cores while I tell you the truth it only results in losing more subscribers. Because people are divided and defined and between different groups there is no communication or interaction.

    So why don't you just stop being a lady who whispers in her afternoon teatime and say what you wanna say? As I am not even a native speaker to English.
    I agree with this completely, I hate Heroics soo much that when my guild gets to that point I usually stop playing. I dont want to do the same raid over and over again just a bit harder. I like the Ulduar Model with activated "Hard modes" where the bosses acted completely differently.

  12. #192
    I will give you a very clear picture that H-modes are catering to those addicted elitists much more than the needs of normal players. Remember WOW is a online game and it needs many people to backup it. Not just few hard-cores can afford to support it. They actually don't have the right to get higher pve gears because they are not contributing more. People will soon find this game has been polarized and that is the time H-modes will make a compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    All those sweeping generalizations and accusations with no facts to back it up. Give me something of substance please, not just your opinion.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimerstyx View Post
    you werent saying it as you thought it was, you were saying it as it were fact

    even so, theyre a how many dollar company?, with the most subscribed to mmorpg, and... what are you?...kinda makes you look so much worse if theyre the retarded ones, eh?
    And who are you to judge someone only by his cloth?

  13. #193
    Ive been reading this thread for some time now and i still dont understand whats the point OP is tryin to make. Every type of player has a raiding setting. Do the one most suitable for you and leave the others alone. why does it bug you that other people have better gear than you? They actually comitted more time and effort for that so why wouldnt they get a more suitable reward?

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyseh View Post
    I agree with this guy. Lets go back to TBC where all raids were basically heroic raids and that was the only difficulty there was. Golden age of raiding imo. Cut the LFR/Flex/Normal that they introduced for the mouth breathers and give us real raiding back.
    I think LFR should be there still for super noobs, but I agree, one difficulty like Burning Crusade. There's a reason why TBC was the golden age of WoW, which lead to a successful WOTLK.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Garmond View Post
    Ive been reading this thread for some time now and i still dont understand whats the point OP is tryin to make. Every type of player has a raiding setting. Do the one most suitable for you and leave the others alone. why does it bug you that other people have better gear than you? They actually comitted more time and effort for that so why wouldnt they get a more suitable reward?
    It's pretty obvious the 'point' OP is trying to make. You can tell exactly what he's up to by the post above yours. This has grown boring.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    So I might say they love showing off and vanity. They do not really love challenges. Great, I want to hear that.As we pay the same and players don't raid H-modes get nothing from players raid h-modes, there is no need to maintain H-modes like this just because it suits 1% of population.
    You confuse elite players with elitists, just like elitists confuse LFR players with what they call bads (afkers, griefers, people who don't know their class, people who dont learn the fights, people who cause a lot of problems in LFR). What I call a bad is someone who feels that destroying the game for someone else is acceptable just because you don't like that part of the game. The majority of hardcore raiders don't care what casuals do in wow, its a few assholes shitting in the community pool that comprise the elitist group.

    Trying to remove someone elses content because you don't do it doesn't make you any better than the other guy trying to remove your content just because they don't like it.

  17. #197
    Stood in the Fire allatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    I will give you a very clear picture that H-modes are catering to those addicted elitists much more than the needs of normal players. Remember WOW is a online game and it needs many people to backup it. Not just few hard-cores can afford to support it. They actually don't have the right to get higher pve gears because they are not contributing more. People will soon find this game has been polarized and that is the time H-modes will make a compromise.
    You appear very confused about the difference between opinion and substance. Hardcore raiders support wow to the exact same tune as everyone else, their monthly sub is the same as yours. No-one supports the game beyond their sub.

    And are you actually really stating that people doing harder content than you are able to do 'have no right' to better gear? I seriously need to get me some of the drugs you've been taking.
    I don't know the recipe for success, but I know that the recipe for failure is trying to please everyone.

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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    I think LFR should be there still for super noobs, but I agree, one difficulty like Burning Crusade. There's a reason why TBC was the golden age of WoW, which lead to a successful WOTLK.
    I know this is offtopic but your sig gave me a a bit of an eyeroll. I feel like the new thing people are going to argue about is the Asia worldfirst shit.

  19. #199
    Yes but soon you will find H-modes are the least beneficial part in this game and sooner or later it will get changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You confuse elite players with elitists, just like elitists confuse LFR players with what they call bads (afkers, griefers, people who don't know their class, people who dont learn the fights, people who cause a lot of problems in LFR). What I call a bad is someone who feels that destroying the game for someone else is acceptable just because you don't like that part of the game. The majority of hardcore raiders don't care what casuals do in wow, its a few assholes shitting in the community pool that comprise the elitist group.

    Trying to remove someone elses content because you don't do it doesn't make you any better than the other guy trying to remove your content just because they don't like it.

  20. #200
    All i read was : I pay the same as H-raiders, therefore i want to be equal without wasting more time and effort.

    Is this OPs point? Im pretty sure there have been threads like this in the past, why is this one getting so mnuch discussion?

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