Agreed, heroic raids shouldn't exist at all; they just never should have made the normal modes trivial in the first place, because the implementation of heroic raids was just a means of making normal raids easier, thus completely invalidating your entire argument.
Seriously, you have problems if you think that having one TINY fraction of the game be tuned to be very difficult so that those who wish for a challenge can get it somehow hurts or ruins the game. 99% of this game can be done without a functioning brain stem, but one tiny section requires effort and can't be half-assed by people playing for 2 hours a week, and having this real incentive to get better and strive for something takes away from the game? Allowing those who work their asses off to down insanely challenging bosses to get little goodies like slightly better gear, mounts or titles is unfair?
Heroic raiders are a large percentage of the ones that do all the theorycrafting, mod-making, strategizing and so forth for PVE content, without them the game would look entirely different today, as many of the best advancements to the standard blizzard UI(informative raid frames, threat meters, boss ability mods, etc) would simply not exist.
So here, your argument is that heroic raids cause the loss of subscribers and is an example of blizzard cutting costs. How then, was the game growing by leaps and bounds before raiding became semi-casual, and began stagnating once raid content become diluted with easier normal modes and LFR? If you were trying to argue that heroic raiding was a bad idea because it diluted the difficulty, you might be at least partially correct in your argument, but thats not what you are trying to argue, is it? You're saying that because there is a tiny fraction of the game that people cant access without putting in effort, they quit; This makes you not only stupid, but wrong. Raiding content has continued to become more complex and well designed throughout the game's history; old raids were fun, sure, but raids in classic and BC were simple compared to raid encounters today. The only reason for this theoretical design stagnation you claim is that quite frankly, there are only so many ways to design a PVE encounter, so certain mechanics end up being re-used; this is not an indication of laziness, it's just a reality of encounter design.And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded in designing a varieties of raids so guess what, he comes up with an brilliant idea that he only needs designing one raid and separates it. So wow, we are so happy to have so many raids but unfortunately it is all the same faces and all the same contents. This alone makes this game much more boring than any time before while at the same time Blizzard is happy in cutting off the budget so he could save some money at the cost of sacrificing its fun. Strangely WOW has became a game that designers cuts off game content for saving money. Don't you tell me it's a smart way to run a company rather than committing suicide.
The power of the stupid emanating from that statement almost melted my face off. The heroic raiding community is arguably the last bastion of actual tight-knit players in the game; Players who coordinate, talk outside of raids, talk to people from other guilds to learn strategies and theorycraft, etc. Most heroic progression guilds, mine included, only raid 3-4 days a week anymore, I know people who log on and run random dungeons and LFR for more hours a week than i raid. What ruined the community and created incentives for anti-social behavior in WOW was dungeon and raid finder, things that allow you to advance without having to actually act nice to anyone or even form groups; you just sit in your capital city, queue for something and get thrown in with a motley crew of randoms all blaming each other for failing.I only see some players showing off their H-achievement and spending their whole day to be addicted to this game. This is how the anti-social environment generates in this game.
I think you're the one that's being "elitist" by saying that ALL the content should be designed for one specific group of players, and that hardcores should just have nothing. Hell you even went as far as to say that pve should NOT be the most important part of this game, as if your way of playing should be the ONLY way that matters. Blizzard has added nothing but incentives for different kinds of players to play over the years, if they were truly being "elitists"(which is a word that gets used without any real understanding of its meaning a lot by forum trolls), they never would have implemented daily quests, or dungeon finder, or heroic dungeons, or raid finder or heroic raids; They would have kept it the way it was in classic, where normal mode dungeons and raids were very hard, and if you wanted reputation with a faction, you went and grinded mobs for hours on end. The reason there is no interaction between the people at the top and the rest of the masses is fairly simple; because most of the masses don't socialize. I can'y say i have ever made any friends or added anyone to my realID from dungeon or raid finder, but i have literally made real-life friends from my raiding guilds. Dividing people between "obnoxious crappy players who whine, troll and blame other people" and "skilled players who devote themselves to mastering their class and raid mechanics" seems like something that probably should, and would, happen regardless of the existence of any content specifically designed for these skilled players.This game, as a game, doesn't need to be so professional and cutting-edged that requires players to devote their life-time to knock down a boss. Yes, I know Blizzard is elitism, it is always the case and this elitism is rooted deeply in their designing mind. Pve should not be the most important part of this game. This is an online game and people should be organized rather than classified. Blizzard is trying to make raid hard and difficult to please hard-cores while I tell you the truth it only results in losing more subscribers. Because people are divided and defined and between different groups there is no communication or interaction.
TLDR; you could not be more wrong if you tried.
So many people feedin the troll ffs.
Im gonna feed him too.
There is 4 difficulties for raiding atm. pick one and keep doing that if you want to.
99% of normal people don't care what you are doing, just have fun and don't post stupid shit on the internet about removing features from the game.
Goddamn internets! Why the kiddo age has become so wide allready, you can't even tell if they are 12 or 20.
I guess internet does that to teen's in todays world that they just don't learn how to behave untill they hit 30+ or something.
Same pay, same gear, good lord. I have seen some stupid arguments on these boards but this one may well take the biscuit.
For me heroic raiding isnt about the higher ilvl loot as many people who do not raid hc think. It is about the difficulty, normals are too easy for my guildies and I, so we love bosses to be a bit (or a lot) more difficult. Gives us something to strafe for, makes us work hard on playing the best we can. So that is one argument against the loot thing most people have. Lets continue to the social aspect this guy is worrying about, for me, just like western societies nowadays, MMO's reflect a growing sense of individualisme. That can not be helped by any designer unless he is gandhi or mother theresa. The more growing anti social behaviour of PLAYERS is counteracted by being in a guild and raiding with them. It gives a sense of teamwork, dedication to eachother and lets you develop a deeper connection then just doing a dungeon which you blitz through. So hc raiding is in that sense social, even more so then any other form except from maybe RP.
I would invite people who have a bad idea about hc raiding to try it. See for themselves what is fun about it, and why people choose to do it. You would be surprised..
If you buy any video game for any price, you are not guaranteed to see the end of it. Your skill and ability to invest time into completing the content is what allows that.
This is true also of literally every MMO. It would be true of WoW even with your changes, you'd still have to level and then do dungeons and do LFR to get the best gear.
Shouldn't someone who doesn't want to raid have the same gear as you? They pay the same after all. Shouldn't someone who isn't a the level cap yet? That's a bit of an exagerration but there really isn't a world of difference between that and what you are suggesting.
Gear Progression is an RPG mechanic, it is always going to exist. Harder content = better rewards is just a logical system. You don't even need the better gear if you aren't doing the harder content!
They will defend what they do because... well, it's what they do and they enjoy it and don't want to see it threatened, and will lash out verbally at anyone seen to be trying to take it away from them because they don't want it to be taken away.
See how silly it sounds when you use your argument for other things that single out percentages of the entire wow population!
I mean come on they developed a weekly on timeless isles that only hard core pet battle players will compleete... WHY did they waste my $$$ on damn pet battles that I don't even take care of... they could have made another pve quest on there with that time and would have served me better ... O wait... it's not all about me and I got more than my moneys worth IN MY OPINION out of patch 5.4 thus I stay subbed!
Last edited by Odina; 2013-10-04 at 02:27 PM.
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Im not saying that i am a Hardcore raider, or a progress raider. I propably coul be one if I wanted to invest more than 6 hours time into raiding but I just dont want to.
Now the curren't problem I have with these content races or World First or something like this is that they are plane boring.
To be honoust... I don't think thats an achievement at all to raid 16+ hours a day for 2-3 weeks to get the content clear. It has nothing to do with skill at all. ( I am not saying that the top guilds in the world don't have skilled players, they propably have the most skilled players they can get) But with so much time and dedication its no a miracle they down these bosses so fast.
I really think rayding should be time limited per day or even per week. Give raidguild just 10 hours of raiding per week and you will see the real difference in skill.
Keep on topic mate! Down with Heroic modes!
You should be able to clear the hardest mode in a game without insane levels of time commitment. A competent guild that raids 3 days a week should be able to clear it in 1-2 months. Let them farm it for 4 months then release a new tier. Not so bad,
Global guild rankings: http://www.loyogou.com/game/wow/ladd...ldLadders.html
This post should've been about why LFR is not necessary at all, since it never was.