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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Because elitists can't just let one guy make an outrageous comment and let it slide into obscurity because it directly attacks their content, but they feel free to make unlimited posts that constantly attack the casual players and their content. The moment someone says the same thing about their content? Oh HELL NOES!
    So what exactly are you doing besides bashing elitists? Or are you saying that "remove LFR" threads don't get the same amount of indignant responses from casual players?

  2. #222
    Take that into consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    You don't earn gear by paying for it though, you earn it through in-game effort. How much of a sub you pay is not relevant.
    If I buy two accounts and multibox, should I get better gear than you?

  3. #223
    I agree, heroic raid content isn't necessary, I'd be perfectly fine with the way raids were in TBC, difficulty-wise. Maybe still have both 10 and 25 for all the raids, but no other modes. Wouldn't have to do LFR, Flex, 1st week normal clear (possibly with multiple raids mixed with alts and mains, feeding the mains with gear), you could jump straight in to progressing. Also there would be a real sense of expansion-level progression, as from Karazhan to Sunwell, and you couldn't just jump to the latest tier with a fresh alt unless you had a guild that needed the class and was willing to boost. That would also get rid of the afk-to-win-raiders that LFR has brought us.

    PS: Also, heroic mode raiding hardly requires you to "devote your life-time to knock down a boss", just look at Group Therapy from Ravencrest-EU, for example. They raid 2 days a week, always have, and have cleared all heroic modes from Ulduar to currently being 8/14 HC in SoO in 25-man mode. Spending your friday and saturday evening raiding is hardly a life-time.
    Last edited by Demez; 2013-10-04 at 02:43 PM.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    So let's set their over-carefulness aside. As a matter of fact I would't call them discussions at all. I want to say it straightly and directly that heroic raid is the worst thing that Blizzard implanted in this game. The first reason is that it doesn't contribute to any kinds of gaming experience but separating players into different levels and make bunch of so called elites. This game, as a game, doesn't need to be so professional and cutting-edged that requires players to devote their life-time to knock down a boss. Yes, I know Blizzard is elitism, it is always the case and this elitism is rooted deeply in their designing mind.
    Yes, because wanting to play at a higher difficulty level is solely because of "elitism"...nope, people don't want a challenge, they just want to feel "elite". Totally.

    And no, heroics do not require you to "devote your life". Back in cata, I was in a casual raiding guild that only raided 2 nights a week for about 3 hours each, and we still managed to get 9/13 heroics in T11.

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded in designing a varieties of raids so guess what, he comes up with an brilliant idea that he only needs designing one raid and separates it. So wow, we are so happy to have so many raids but unfortunately it is all the same faces and all the same contents. This alone makes this game much more boring than any time before while at the same time Blizzard is happy in cutting off the budget so he could save some money at the cost of sacrificing its fun. Strangely WOW has became a game that designers cuts off game content for saving money. Don't you tell me it's a smart way to run a company rather than committing suicide.
    I have no idea what you're trying to say here, but it sounds completely biased and wrong by the words you're using.

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Lastly heroic raid isn't heroic at all. It's only a boss piled up with statics which requires you with higher pve gears and more devoting time.
    Yes...that's kinda what "higher difficulty" entails. Harder bosses and higher level gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    I don't see anything may represent heroic here. I only see some players showing off their H-achievement and spending their whole day to be addicted to this game.
    Sounds to me like you're just mad because you can't play well enough to get into a heroic raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    This is how the anti-social environment generates in this game. Pve should not be the most important part of this game.
    PvE has been the most important part of the game since Vanilla. Not sure where you've been. And tell me, how exactly is "25 people getting together to do a raid" anti-social?

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Blizzard is trying to make raid hard and difficult to please hard-cores while I tell you the truth it only results in losing more subscribers.
    Oh yeah, this is totally the wrong way to run the game. That's why WoW pushed back up over 10mil subscribers! ....wait....

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Because people are divided and defined and between different groups there is no communication or interaction.
    "No communication or interaction" ? Where are you getting this from?

    OP, your post sounds like a load of whiny, ranty crap with nothing to back up your statements other than anecdotes. I'm gonna go with RickJamesLich and ask you, "what did you smoke tonight?"

  5. #225
    Heroic Mode should definitely exist.

    Raidfinder or Flex however should not, I'd pick Flex to stay cause Raidfinder is just not any fun at all, most people don't really care if the boss dies or not and they are pulling absolute shit dps/healing that combined with bosses where you can just ignore all mechanics is just no fun.

    If there wasn't any heroic mode, normal mode would either be way too hard (sunwell) = casuals who are better than Raidfinder and Flex but not quite skilled/dedicated enough for heroic would have a tough time. Or it would be too easy (Naxx25) and hardcore/semi-hardcore would just steamroll the content in a day and then have nothing new to do.

    I do however think Blizzard usually are a bit too lazy when it comes to designing a heroic mode encounter. They increase the boss health, damage and add 1 new thing to the encounter. Say for example if they had made Paragons HC by having all of the bosses up at the same time and not increase health/dmg or adding one more mechanic, that could be interesting.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Very simple to understand. Same pay, same gear. They only play for their own good, so no need to award better gears. Just as everybody else is ok. Can't you understand?
    Same pay, same level. Why is that player lvl 90 while I'm only 47? See how ridiculous that sounds? And in truth that is even less ridiculous than your argument, as heroic gear requires skill in addition to some time commitment, whereas any 6 year old could level to 90 with enough time.

  7. #227
    Brewmaster mitbrandir's Avatar
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    hc wouldnt be needed,if bosses on normal would be as hard as naxx 40 and sunwell were at their representive levels and patches. But if blizz would do that, people will complain that they cant get to see all the content aswell
    When your enemies meet death , it is my face that shall greet them.
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  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Same pay, same level. Why is that player lvl 90 while I'm only 47? See how ridiculous that sounds? And in truth that is even less ridiculous than your argument, as heroic gear requires skill in addition to some time commitment, whereas any 6 year old could level to 90 with enough time.
    Yeah, it sounds to me like OP is just mad that he can't get into a heroic raid, so he goes and makes this big whiny rant about "Heroics are antisocial and segregating the community! All heroic raiders are just elitists!" and other such crap.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Take that into consideration.
    What is that even supposed to mean, "Yes" or "No" ?

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I guess people care because they are paying for content that over 90% of them will never get to see whilst this would be fine if there was content developed for the majority it is not the case. Instead they are given a watered down version of the content not because they are interested in it but to justify the time and expense spent on creating the content they had no access to in the first place.
    So the solution is to remove content?
    I dont get it :/
    I'm not raiding hc. I wont get there anytime soon. But why do I care if people are raiding it? Just gives me something to strive for. I suck at pvp and will never get any of the high end titles/mounts from pvp but why should I care if people get them. Good for them!
    Besides, the content is there. There is nothing barring you. There is no special key to enter it or some attunement of some sort. Its all up to the player. His time and dedication. If you dont have either then raid something that suits you better. heck you have 3 other modes to choose from.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    Sorry, your ilevel needs to be higher to derail a thread kek.

    Keep on topic mate! Down with Heroic modes!


    You should be able to clear the hardest mode in a game without insane levels of time commitment. A competent guild that raids 3 days a week should be able to clear it in 1-2 months. Let them farm it for 4 months then release a new tier. Not so bad,
    Ahaha good laugh, not trying to derail, just saiyan.

    And yea, that's what guilds can do. Good competent people can play a little bit and still clear the content since that's what it's made for. These super high end world first guilds aren't the target audience for Heroics, it's the '5%' guilds. The top 5% roughly in ranking are the target audience for them and they do just fine. It's extremely rare for them to say a fight is too hard but really common for them to say stuff is too easy.

  12. #232
    Level and gear are totally different.
    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Same pay, same level. Why is that player lvl 90 while I'm only 47? See how ridiculous that sounds? And in truth that is even less ridiculous than your argument, as heroic gear requires skill in addition to some time commitment, whereas any 6 year old could level to 90 with enough time.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    So what exactly are you doing besides bashing elitists? Or are you saying that "remove LFR" threads don't get the same amount of indignant responses from casual players?
    I very rarely see indignant responces from casual players, most of them defend their content and just want to be left alone and they don't bother the hardcore raider. I do say rarely because there are people like OP of this thread who are doing the same things that elitists are doing but from the other side of the fence.

    As far as bashing elitists go, we don't shame people who behave shamefully enough in our society. If you don't tell people that they are behaving badly then they just continue to feel that they can justify any behavior because it turns out okay for them personally.

    Thankfully Blizzard does not listen to all these people who think others don't deserve to enjoy the game.

  14. #234
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Level and gear are totally different.
    How? you being higer level than me makes you more powerful than me and you can do more in the game at higher level and have access to more spells!

    If anythign level disparity is a greater variable in segregating the comunity than gear at max level is!

    Same pay same power no? so why have levels in your model?

  15. #235
    I'd rather see a new raid than a tedious H-mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by sharlez View Post
    Heroic Mode should definitely exist.

    Raidfinder or Flex however should not, I'd pick Flex to stay cause Raidfinder is just not any fun at all, most people don't really care if the boss dies or not and they are pulling absolute shit dps/healing that combined with bosses where you can just ignore all mechanics is just no fun.

    If there wasn't any heroic mode, normal mode would either be way too hard (sunwell) = casuals who are better than Raidfinder and Flex but not quite skilled/dedicated enough for heroic would have a tough time. Or it would be too easy (Naxx25) and hardcore/semi-hardcore would just steamroll the content in a day and then have nothing new to do.

    I do however think Blizzard usually are a bit too lazy when it comes to designing a heroic mode encounter. They increase the boss health, damage and add 1 new thing to the encounter. Say for example if they had made Paragons HC by having all of the bosses up at the same time and not increase health/dmg or adding one more mechanic, that could be interesting.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Levels are for all. H-mode is for few.
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    How? you being higer level than me makes you more powerful than me and you can do more in the game at higher level and have access to more spells!

    If anythign level disparity is a greater variable in segregating the comunity than gear at max level is!

    Same pay same power no? so why have levels in your model?

  16. #236
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    I'm going to close this here rather than see it keep going in a giant, pointless circle.



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