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  1. #61
    Yes but I quite think removing H-modes will result in decrease of subscribers but lowing down the difficult level of this game will bring more subscribers as they can experience the whole content without being left behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syh View Post
    World of Warcraft is a game. It's something people play to pass time and enjoy, nothing in it is a 'necessary' to begin with. While none of the current difficulties are a necessity, they will all stay apart of this game for a long time to come because it suits the Blizzard's objective: to please every type of player they can.

    There are many different types of players and each type require different levels of difficulty to stimulate them. If you take away 'their' difficulty it's likely that you will see a decrease of people interested in PvE or perhaps the game in general. They won't find it challenging anymore and they'll likely lose their interest very quickly. That's why I feel like the difficulties they have in the game are essential to accomplish their objective and to please a mass amount of people with the same game; Heroic mode included.

  2. #62
    Just gief TBC styled raiding back, that is all.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    There should be three different difficulty levels.

    LFR for people who have random time blocks
    Flex for casuals
    Regular for raiders (easier than heroic but harder than normal mode now)

    Remove all "heroic" modes. You kill the boss once, it's binary, like back in Burning Crusade.
    What? You ask for one difficulty level (like in BC) in the same post you ask for 3.

    Imo, all difficulty levels should share a lockout.

  4. #64
    Yeah I completly agree. Hard modes should be removed because blizzard wastes time instead of making more content. Instead the TBC system should be in place.

    With easy lfr type raids (gruul karazhan) normal raids (ssk tk) and hard raids bt and above.

    Whenever a new patch hits and a new raid comes out, previous raids should be nerfed to the ground and more timless isles and magister terace places should be set up for people to catch up.

    But why should content be made for 1 % of the players?!?!

    Because the game seems endless thats why. You alwyas know there is more to do after you finish doing what you have done.

    But why should people be different? We both pay the same ammount of monney.

    Because people ARE different. You pay monney to enter the world of warcraft and then its your world to explore. Its up to you to do everething you want. Its just like paying monney for a gym. You dont pay it to loose weight, you pay it to use their equipment.

    But I play the game to have fun!

    As does every one else. The difference is how people have fun. For some, like me, i'm having fun when i'm beeing chalanged. When i was doing tbc/cata dungeons. When Ulduar was first released. Thats fun for me. Hiting random buttons on a keyboard and standing in fire is boring. A game that does not chalange me the slightest (like the curent 5 mans are) is something that is ridiculosly boring and tedious.

    Honestly i wonder if there even is some one who is HAVING FUN literaly in lfr. If so, please respond to my post and tell me the last time you've had fun in lfr.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Yes but I quite think removing H-modes will result in decrease of subscribers but lowing down the difficult level of this game will bring more subscribers as they can experience the whole content without being left behind.
    That's what the other difficulties are for, they can experience all of the bosses on a different difficulty.

    It's like any other game: there is more than one difficulty and you can choose which one you would prefer to do. If you don't want to dedicate the time to beating the game on Hard, you can play Normal. Or Easy. And of course other people will give you shit about it and call you bad if you don't play on their level, but removing Heroic mode will just make Normal mode the new 'elite' for people who only do Flex or LFR. See what I'm getting at?

    I don't understand why the players that enjoy a higher difficulty than Normal should be punished. It doesn't make sense to me. Even if they made Normal harder, it will be the same as if Heroic were still in the game.. except that Flex would likely be increased in difficulty as well and instead of Normal and Heroic you would have Flex and Normal.
    Last edited by Syh; 2013-10-04 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Revised to add to the clarity of what I stating

  6. #66
    Stood in the Fire allatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Also I noticed you neatly avoided my question about challenge being for more fun and not rewards.
    Not intentionally, I assure you. Personally I think there is a very fine line when you do challenges purely for challenge and not for reward. For some, the challenge will always be enough and for some it simply won't be. The tricky middle ground is when there is no reward and the challenge simply becomes too much. I would imagine that a lot of people keep trying when the challenge is a bit tooo much because there is a reward, in this case gear. Everyone would probably say 'I don't need a reward, I am in it for the challenge' but how many of those would say 'ah fuck this' when it becomes too hard and there is no shiny to aim for on the end of the stick?
    I don't know the recipe for success, but I know that the recipe for failure is trying to please everyone.

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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaige View Post
    I'd rather them take out the "normal" difficulty and replace it with heroic difficulty as it was pre-ulduar. :\
    As it was pre-Ulduar??
    Did you ever do Naxxramas? That was like a whole tier of LFR content

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Yes but I quite think removing H-modes will result in decrease of subscribers but lowing down the difficult level of this game will bring more subscribers as they can experience the whole content without being left behind.
    Your logic is astoundingly stupid.
    LFR is the same as Heroic, you just get lower numbers, there is your content.
    I'd honestly have to put in effort to make as little sense as you.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-10-04 at 02:50 PM.

  9. #69
    I enjoy LFR very much. I can pick the boss I want to get reward from without being defeated all night. Because of the valor buff I know this boss is due to be overcame.
    Quote Originally Posted by veehro View Post
    Yeah I completly agree. Hard modes should be removed because blizzard wastes time instead of making more content. Instead the TBC system should be in place.

    With easy lfr type raids (gruul karazhan) normal raids (ssk tk) and hard raids bt and above.

    Whenever a new patch hits and a new raid comes out, previous raids should be nerfed to the ground and more timless isles and magister terace places should be set up for people to catch up.

    But why should content be made for 1 % of the players?!?!

    Because the game seems endless thats why. You alwyas know there is more to do after you finish doing what you have done.

    But why should people be different? We both pay the same ammount of monney.

    Because people ARE different. You pay monney to enter the world of warcraft and then its your world to explore. Its up to you to do everething you want. Its just like paying monney for a gym. You dont pay it to loose weight, you pay it to use their equipment.

    But I play the game to have fun!

    As does every one else. The difference is how people have fun. For some, like me, i'm having fun when i'm beeing chalanged. When i was doing tbc/cata dungeons. When Ulduar was first released. Thats fun for me. Hiting random buttons on a keyboard and standing in fire is boring. A game that does not chalange me the slightest (like the curent 5 mans are) is something that is ridiculosly boring and tedious.

    Honestly i wonder if there even is some one who is HAVING FUN literaly in lfr. If so, please respond to my post and tell me the last time you've had fun in lfr.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Heroic raid IS necessary for us. Some people play games at EASY, because they want easy relaxed fun experience. Some people play HARD, because they want to overcome the hard challenge. Demanding to remove one of the modes automatically means that a lot of players won't have content to enjoy.

    You also seem misguided around balance issues in game. You think if you limit heroic raider with a normal mode items, his performance will be on par with normal mode raider's one? Nope, it wouldn't. So why do you care? Raid the difficulty you prefer and let other people do the same.
    I guess people care because they are paying for content that over 90% of them will never get to see whilst this would be fine if there was content developed for the majority it is not the case. Instead they are given a watered down version of the content not because they are interested in it but to justify the time and expense spent on creating the content they had no access to in the first place.

  11. #71
    I'll never understand why people are so against trying to be good at this game, I personally get enjoyment out of striving to do my absolute best at things in life - I'd consider that an asset, even if i'm only using it for an online game in this case.

    I think people really over-estimate the amount of time it takes to heroic raid, because it's not loads -You need a schedule and maybe 10 hours per week tops, if you have that and a semi-decent roster, you'll clear heroic mode before the patch ends. You know not EVERY heroic guild races for world first and has sleepless nights, most people lead very normal lives and just like to relax a bit (yes, heroic mode is relaxing) - Flexi mode/LFR is just too mind numbingly boring for a lot players, i'll do flexi on alts for gear, and hell even my main at this point, but like fuck am i ever stepping foot in LFR - Now that we have the timeless isle there's really 0 reason for me to do so cept for tier pieces (which i don't even care enough for tbh, it's not worth doing LFR, i'd rather gauge my eyes out).

    For the record, I really agree that Blizzard should keep the difficulties in the game at this point - I don't completely like it, but it makes sense from a business' point of view; I don't want WoW to die. However, the next person that makes me cringe by saying "Herp derp if u don't like LFR why use it" is going to get a massive smack. Has anyone like, ever, said that was why people didn't like it? For me it's the Dark Souls easy mode difficulty topic, if there's an easier difficulty to the raid then your accomplishment feels diminished because you know that a) There's an easy way out IF you need to, the fact that you're even in a harder difficulty means that it's not to see the content, it's just for the sake of difficulty and b) Because you've already seen the bosses. The moment you clear a raid for the first time, no matter what difficulty it's on, you lose a lot of the will to keep going - Sure, we'll still keep at it because the challenge is enjoyable, but for me, I loved the tbc model the most. Raids gradually increasing in difficulty with each tier while there's one set difficulty for each one. People would be like "Omg you saw Illidan? What's it like? Cool fight?", nobody gives a shit anymore, there's nothing to look forward to in raiding because you've done all of it - Who gives a fuck if we get better gear, the ONLY thing better gear does is let us clear the difficulty mode that we're currently on, it's not like we need the gear to do flexi/normal/LFR... The only purpose of heroic gear is to help clear heroic mode and to give a slight head start on normal mode the next patch (which is pretty easy anyway, takes a few weeks tops even for a completely average guild). Personally, whenever I play any new game, i'll do it on the hardest difficulty (even if i suck balls at it) - Sometimes it'll take me ages, sometimes i'll BARELY play the game (due to not having the time or because I suck at it, where have I heard that...), but i'll still beat it eventually, because that's how I feel GAMES are meant to be played, they're meant to be some-what of a challenge in order to give fun. In fact, to be completely honest, I don't think that I can think of a single game ever created in the history of mankind that requires less brain power than LFR, bar perhaps games that are designed purely to be easy. I literally exert more brain power when playing tic tac toe or duck duck fucking goose. I legitimately can't think of anything easier than LFR, pass the parcel as a kid was more challenging than it.

    Honestly, at this point of the game, all raid modes are 'necessary' - But can we just stop these God Damn LFR/Hc/w/e threads? We are NE-VER. Going to come to an agreement on it, people that dislike heroic raiding do-so because they've not found the right group of people, are unable to raid it due to time constraints (if you can't raid 6-10 hours i wonder why you even pay for the game tbh) or are just awful at the game and fear rejection from other players in guilds (which is understandable actually, I was scared when I joined my first raiding guild) etc etc. People hate LFR because of what I just said and quite frankly, i worded it terribly, I could elaborate a lot more and it would probably make a lot more sense, but even if it's the perfect argument I will never suddenly convert people; Honestly, I don't think that I have EVER. EVER. EVERRRR seen someone on this forum reply to someone saying "Oh fuck me, you're actually right! Ty! " - The only reason i'm even writing this is because arguing is fun lol, but these threads are just retarded now.

    TL;DR stop these threads it's getting retarded kty.
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2013-10-04 at 09:34 AM.

  12. #72
    I think the term heroic and hardcore raiders is being mashed up here a lot. There are plenty of heroic raiders who do so on a 2-3 day/week schedule just for the sake of killing more challenging bosses.

    I for example am in a 25man heroic raiding guild on a 3h x 3day schedule. We didn't get Garrosh down the first week because we ran out of time, but noone really was upset about it. The following week normals were cleared with ease and Garrosh followed suit.

    After 2 weeks on heroic we are now on 4/14hc and I am proud of our group. Due to the fact of the many upgrades still available in normal we have been raiding progress for about 5 hours each week and clearing in the remaining 3. so in 9 hours we have cleared 4 heroic bosses. It's decent enough in my book at least.

    The reasons why I like to raid 25man hc on a rather casual schedule:

    1) I got a life outside WoW so I don't wanna tie up more than 25% of my free time i have each week.
    2) 25man over 10man because I have done both in the past and 25man guilds seem more lively and harder to coordinate in raids, which makes it more challenging and thus fun.
    3) Heroic raiding. Simply because we all like the challenge. The more challenging, the more rewarding a kill feels, the more fun it is.

  13. #73
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    <--- 2 Day's a week 6 hours in total, cleared 13/13hc 2 weeks before SoO, currently@ 3/14hc

    Mhm.... your "No Life" argument is invalid. Sorry to dissapoint you.

    Personally, I think this game has just changed too much. There is not one Boss in this game that requires "TOO MUCH" effort... The worst boss last tier was down in about 57 wipes (lei'shen) if i remember correctly. Thats 2-3 Day's of trying and optimising.

    I miss the old day's where you would wipe for weeks/month on an encounter and really felt epic when you downed this beast... I remember 2nd Boss BWL... Jesus chirst I still hate him.


    I want this feeling back... on not the feeling you get like heroic Immerseus... such a crap encounter. Seriosly... One additiion and that requires to kill adds and watch out for a debuff... downed in 2 try's... there is just nothing that feels heroic about this.

    I think these heroic encounters are tuned to low. They should be tuned for and normal ilvl of 553 at least... immerseus heroic feels like its tuned for 530 or something...

  14. #74
    High Overlord Chaoss17's Avatar
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    I think the OP is either jealous or had been pissed off by a heroic player to say those things.
    Let me get this straight : if there was only 1 type of difficulty, WoW would've lost a lot of customers.
    By offering different type of difficulty players will be more tempted to each of them because they want to look stronger.

    LFR difficulty
    LFR was created for players who couldn't see the end of the content.
    Either because their schedule couldn't let them (anybody working here or have a family?)
    Either because their guild couldn't let them (back in vanilla, who was able to see Naxx and kill the last boss here?)
    Either because they wanted freedom on their schedule.
    So LFR is kinda the easy mode of WoW but unfortunnaly sometime it become hard mode because people afk brain.

    Flex difficulty
    Originally created for small and middle guilds that had problems with their roster but PUG decided to go too.
    People want to go there because they want decent raid, just like a guild would've done.
    It's kinda like an advanced LFR since the majority of those raids ain't guild's made it seems by the different testomy I read.
    The difficulty tends between easy and normal mode but raiders to outgear this mode so they kinda do it in easy mode.

    Normal mode
    This mode was originally created for guilds who're geared blue heroic dungeons at the beginning of each extension.
    But they felt it would be easier for them to get epics in LFR first than trying in "hard mode" normal raid.
    A lot of people blamed Blizzard about this "feeling" of being forced to get epic from rep and LFR.
    But now, they've FLex instead going to LFR
    They will either stick to Flex or graduate from it and do normal raid.

    Heroic difficulty
    This is BLizzard aim for if you look at SoO.
    A lot of guilds said that normal mode was easy, so probably would they afford to try heroic mode ?
    I'm saying this because many times Blizzard said that not a lot guilds are able to graduate from normal raiding to heroic.
    That's kinda true because each time I check someone complaining about a difficulty mode, I notice that they didn't finish normal or began heroic mode.

    So yeah, before making any complaints.
    I think it's better to try asking yourself : can my guild do all of these difficulties and finish them ?
    Meaning that raiding isn't a solo accomplishment but a group/guild accomplishment.
    If you can't do a difficulty mode, it's more because of your guild not your own ambition.

    What's the point you will say ?
    The point is the real difficulty for Blizzard is probably the heroic mode.
    A lot of people will tell you how back in TBC or Vanilla raids were much difficult than now.
    Also, you can see in the DPs how a spec can suck depending of the gears, like who play warlock affliction ?
    I'm asking this because in heroics gears Affliction do a lot of damage while in LFR gears it kinda sucks.

    So yeah, I'm happy that Blizzard offer so much different difficulty modes otherwise, they wouldn't have many players around.
    A lot of players can play the difficulties they want.
    Last edited by Chaoss17; 2013-10-04 at 09:44 AM.

  15. #75
    The logic is simple. Without LFR, there would be more lost in subscribers. No one can persist in raiding. It's a game, make it easier than life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlesnarf View Post
    Your logic is astoundingly stupid.
    LFR is the same as Heroic, you just get lower numbers, there is your content.
    I'd honestly have to put in effort to make as little sense as you.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    <--- 2 Day's a week 6 hours in total, cleared 13/13hc 2 weeks before SoO, currently@ 3/14hc

    Mhm.... your "No Life" argument is invalid. Sorry to dissapoint you.

    Personally, I think this game has just changed too much. There is not one Boss in this game that requires "TOO MUCH" effort... The worst boss last tier was down in about 57 wipes (lei'shen) if i remember correctly. Thats 2-3 Day's of trying and optimising.

    I miss the old day's where you would wipe for weeks/month on an encounter and really felt epic when you downed this beast... I remember 2nd Boss BWL... Jesus chirst I still hate him.


    I want this feeling back... on not the feeling you get like heroic Immerseus... such a crap encounter. Seriosly... One additiion and that requires to kill adds and watch out for a debuff... downed in 2 try's... there is just nothing that feels heroic about this.

    I think these heroic encounters are tuned to low. They should be tuned for and normal ilvl of 553 at least... immerseus heroic feels like its tuned for 530 or something...
    Meh, I actually found immerseus much more annoying than the following 5 bosses tbh xD Not really that he was hard, just really really annoying (at least from a mistweavers point of view). The difficulty is very linear though, think of it as ToT but having the boss order going Jin-rokh > Ji'Kun > Iron Qon > Tortos lol, gets much more challenging later on

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Do you actually read people's posts. I wasn't the one talking about imbalance that was billielecter.
    You responded to someone asking "what imbalance?" with talk about the item squish addressing it.

    If you're not talking about balance and the ilevel squish, why did you quote someone asking "what imbalance?". I do read posts, but I can't help it if they're completely misleading by quoting something then the rest of the post apparently not being in response to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    The logic is simple. Without LFR, there would be more lost in subscribers. No one can persist in raiding. It's a game, make it easier than life.
    You do know LFR and Heroic modes aren't exclusive, right? Have you played the game recently, they're both in.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    This is an online game and people should be organized rather than classified.
    Nicely put! I agree with this line. great!

  19. #79
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    I think there is bad and good sides on so many raid modes, after killing boss on hc it rly dosent give you anything on lfr mostly i just get angry when doing it. Flex is good step back to what mmo:s used to be.

  20. #80
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Meh, I actually found immerseus much more annoying than the following 5 bosses tbh xD Not really that he was hard, just really really annoying (at least from a mistweavers point of view). The difficulty is very linear though, think of it as ToT but having the boss order going Jin-rokh > Ji'Kun > Iron Qon > Tortos lol, gets much more challenging later on

    I did 150k dps on the first night as arcane on this encounter... This week i just switched to frost... didnt reforge at all... Waht a blessing... But this encounter after 60% corruption i can go afk... Nothing to do there...

    I even take the heal from a druid to "HEAL" adds... bandages... You basicly play the first phase well, get him too 75-80 corruption and get the loot.


    Know only the trinket has to drop... 3 bonusroll got the BACK thunderforged heroic... YEAH!!! THANK YOU BLIZZ

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