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  1. #1

    Why the heroic raid is not necessary at all

    I find something very funny about people who post in this forum which is they all want thread to be totally objective and non-argumentative. They ask thread to be unbiased, unprejudiced and scientifically based. The odd thing is that there is no existence of that kind of thread before, now and in the future. I doubt whether that thought is the result of western culture or western social behavior which requires our gentlemen to be a little hypocrite and hide their true feelings about the things they actually discuss because it seems to me that they actually don't discuss at all, they just write some words very plain and tedious and hopefully they don't get banned.

    So let's set their over-carefulness aside. As a matter of fact I would't call them discussions at all. I want to say it straightly and directly that heroic raid is the worst thing that Blizzard implanted in this game. The first reason is that it doesn't contribute to any kinds of gaming experience but separating players into different levels and make bunch of so called elites. This game, as a game, doesn't need to be so professional and cutting-edged that requires players to devote their life-time to knock down a boss. Yes, I know Blizzard is elitism, it is always the case and this elitism is rooted deeply in their designing mind.

    And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded in designing a varieties of raids so guess what, he comes up with an brilliant idea that he only needs designing one raid and separates it. So wow, we are so happy to have so many raids but unfortunately it is all the same faces and all the same contents. This alone makes this game much more boring than any time before while at the same time Blizzard is happy in cutting off the budget so he could save some money at the cost of sacrificing its fun. Strangely WOW has became a game that designers cuts off game content for saving money. Don't you tell me it's a smart way to run a company rather than committing suicide.

    Lastly heroic raid isn't heroic at all. It's only a boss piled up with statics which requires you with higher pve gears and more devoting time. I don't see anything may represent heroic here. I only see some players showing off their H-achievement and spending their whole day to be addicted to this game. This is how the anti-social environment generates in this game. Pve should not be the most important part of this game. This is an online game and people should be organized rather than classified. Blizzard is trying to make raid hard and difficult to please hard-cores while I tell you the truth it only results in losing more subscribers. Because people are divided and defined and between different groups there is no communication or interaction.

    So why don't you just stop being a lady who whispers in her afternoon teatime and say what you wanna say? As I am not even a native speaker to English.
    Last edited by billielecter; 2013-10-04 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Serious question, what did you smoke tonight?

    As for heroic raiding, there's no doubt a group of guys that are very strongly against it on these boards. That being said, many of wow's other competitors lacked solid end game content and failed. While people will say what they want, from what we've seen, lacking a real end game causes MMO's to die. For example, if you hit 90 2 days ago, and you killed garrosh, lei shen, heck, even toss in Illidan and Arthas within 5 hours of hitting 90, would you be compelled to play the game? I'm sure some would answer "yes" but my gut feeling is most wouldn't return.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    I think heroic modes should exist but only as a means to get better transmog gear, titles and mounts. That's how high end PVP is and it's still a real thing. People still do that stuff because of the challenge and the fun of it. They like to go around looking down at the filthy Challengers and Rivals and Duelists and mock them. PVE though keeps getting easier and easier every week because you get gear out of heroic mode when it should only drop the same ilvl as Normal (indeed, all versions should drop the same gear just with a weekly lockout). That way people can just go along with whatever challenge they want. Really sick of seeing 'hardcore raiders' saying they're better than people when they run around in perfectly itemised BiS heroic gear fully upgraded and say "lol ur dps so bad" to people playing perfectly in LFR gear. That is an injustice. You should have to grind the gear, yes, but do it like PVP does it. If you have full Conquest gear but 1200 rating, you're bad. Time was you couldn't even get to higher ratings because people in upgraded elite conquest gear would just stomp you even if they were not good players (or, if they were, still have a huge advantage). PVP kept the gear equal enough so PVE should do the same.

    So if heroic raiders really care about challenge and prestige, they'd be okay with it. They just need to see that 1% of the game's population doesn't matter to anyone else. Nobody else cares what heroic raiders do. They aren't better players, they just spend more time and have more gear. That's all it takes to win. You could argue "hurr durr LFR bads doing 20k dps" but that person is just bad for doing 20k DPS. What if someone does 200k DPS in LFR gear and 400k in better gear from just playing well? Why is that good person's performance lessened by a gear level? If people just want to grind gear, they'll just grind gear. If they want to play harder, why should they then have to grind more gear and have that as a barrier to entry? Why isn't simply playing better enough?

    TL;DR heroic mode serves no purpose, if it's for prestige let it be that and no gear
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  4. #4
    I don't smoke at all. I just feel people nowadays are too polite to say anything which may cause arguments or this forum doesn't welcome controversy at all?
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Serious question, what did you smoke tonight?

    As for heroic raiding, there's no doubt a group of guys that are very strongly against it on these boards. That being said, many of wow's other competitors lacked solid end game content and failed. While people will say what they want, from what we've seen, lacking a real end game causes MMO's to die. For example, if you hit 90 2 days ago, and you killed garrosh, lei shen, heck, even toss in Illidan and Arthas within 5 hours of hitting 90, would you be compelled to play the game? I'm sure some would answer "yes" but my gut feeling is most wouldn't return.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    I don't smoke at all. I just feel people nowadays are too polite to say anything which may cause arguments or this forum doesn't welcome controversy at all?
    Eh, I will agree a little bit of controversy makes things interesting.

  6. #6
    I wouldn't be playing without heroic difficulty

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    I think heroic modes should exist but only as a means to get better transmog gear, titles and mounts. That's how high end PVP is and it's still a real thing. People still do that stuff because of the challenge and the fun of it. They like to go around looking down at the filthy Challengers and Rivals and Duelists and mock them.

    Most of the pvp'ers I know stopped around the time they made it so you could pretty much get a full set of gear no matter how badly you played. The reason? It lacked any sort of real progression, once you get a full set, then what? You do the same stuff you've already been doing. What do you have to show for playing well? A title which most won't notice lol. IMO, the reason they even made these changes was to deter afk'ers and win traders, in the process though they drove a lot of pvp'ers off.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded
    Not doing yourself much of a favour saying things like that, it makes you look very silly indeed. Think before you post.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    I find something very funny about people who post in this forum which is they all want thread to be totally objective and non-argumentative. They ask thread to be unbiased, unprejudiced and scientifically based. The odd thing is that there is no existence of that kind of thread before, now and in the future. I doubt whether that thought is the result of western culture or western social behavior which requires our gentlemen to be a little hypocrite and hide their true feelings about the things they actually discuss because it seems to me that they actually don't discuss at all, they just write some words very plain and tedious and hopefully they don't get banned.

    So let's set their over-carefulness aside. As a matter of fact I would't call them discussions at all. I want to say it straightly and directly that heroic raid is the worst thing that Blizzard implanted in this game. The first reason is that it doesn't contribute to any kinds of gaming experience but separating players into different levels and make bunch of so called elites. This game, as a game, doesn't need to be so professional and cutting-edged that requires players to devote their life-time to knock down a boss. Yes, I know Blizzard is elitism, it is always the case and this elitism is rooted deeply in their designing mind.

    And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded in designing a varieties of raids so guess what, he comes up with an brilliant idea that he only needs designing one raid and separates it. So wow, we are so happy to have so many raids but unfortunately it is all the same faces and all the same contents. This alone make this game much more boring than any time before while at the same time Blizzard is happy in cutting off the budget so he could save some money at the cost of sacrificing its fun. Strangely WOW has became a game that designers cuts off game content for saving money. Don't you tell me it's a smart way to run a company rather than committing suicide.

    Lastly heroic raid isn't heroic at all. It's only a boss piled up with statics which requires you with higher pve gears and more devoting time. I don't see anything may represent heroic here. I only see some players showing off their H-achievement and spending their whole day to be addicted to this game. This is how the anti-social environment generates in this game. Pve should not be the most important part of this game. This is an online game and people should be organized rather than classified. Blizzard is trying to make raid hard and difficult to please hard-cores while I tell you the truth it only results in losing more subscribers.

    So why don't you just stop being a lady who whispers in their afternoon teatime and say what you wanna say? As I am not even an native speaker to English.
    Post on WoW forums if you have an active sub. Oh wait, you can't post as a Chinese? Do Blizz treat you guys differently there?

  10. #10
    Oh, do I? Since when I can't use negative words to describe what I think about a company?
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Not doing yourself much of a favour saying things like that, it makes you look very silly indeed. Think before you post.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Do I sense your little tiny discrimination here because I can write in English but you can't write in Chinese?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    Post on WoW forums if you have an active sub. Oh wait, you can't post as a Chinese? Do Blizz treat you guys differently there?

  11. #11
    High Overlord
    Join Date
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    without heroic raids, i would have been gone for longtime now..

  12. #12
    With all due respect sir, are you on crack?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Danshot View Post
    I wouldn't be playing without heroic difficulty
    Could you show me the reason why?

  14. #14
    LFR and Normal raiding isn't required at all, all it does is create a gap in the playerbase and so called "casuals". There should only be heroics.


    Yeah, that's how stupid your argument sounds. I wouldn't be playing if normals were the only difficulty, they're simply not engaging and would result in me raiding 1 night a week, not 3, then logging out for the rest of it. That's not worth the subscription fee.

    If normals were as hard as they used to be? Maybe, but if you want accessible raid content (which I've no problem with), then you also need a heroic, harder difficulty for the people that have had their challenging content swiped from them and transformed into your accessible content.

    Your Fun is no more valuable or entitled than mine. Live and let live.

    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Could you show me the reason why?
    Normals are so trivial they can be cleared in one or two nights with almost no effort by a half decent group. That's not good value for money, nor does it entertain me when my love of raiding stemmed from playing in a casual guild that would spend months tring to down something in SSC.

    Normal "Progression", which is the most entertaining part - not farming gear, will last 1-2 weeks.
    Heroic "Progression" for my guild usually lasts an entire tier.

    That's 1-2 weeks of fun v 12 months of fun.
    Last edited by Nagassh; 2013-10-04 at 07:15 AM.

  15. #15
    now that is some personal bias. did some1 with hc gear piss you off in lfr?

    HC is there for the ppl that raid and when they're done with normals instead of just quitting till next patch they can still progress the heroic challenge neither you want to believe it or not they are harder than normals no matter what gear you got.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Pandorox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    Post on WoW forums if you have an active sub. Oh wait, you can't post as a Chinese? Do Blizz treat you guys differently there?
    That was really unnecessary. Race had nothing to do with this convo.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    So why don't you just stop being a lady who whispers in their afternoon teatime and say what you wanna say?
    *sips tea*

    Normal mode isn't difficult enough for a great deal of raiders, hence why heroic mode exists. Hard mode exists for the same reason LFR and Flex mode exist, normal mode as a difficulty level does not meet the needs of the entire playerbase.

    That's all I really have to say to you sir, as you obviously have a horrid bias against ladies and their tea.

  18. #18
    You should fix your logic before suggesting anything. How Heroic mode have anything to do with Blizzard being lazy and cutting content? They have to actually work more for different difficulties. There are a lot of people who enjoy hard content and like to show off their achievements. What's wrong with that?

  19. #19
    I happen to believe that real happyness comes from striving to be skilled at something and succeeding. I don't think they should take that away from wow players. No matter how much more devoted they are.

  20. #20
    We don't have LFR, Normal, Heroic, Flex because they are necessary. We have them because they are ways for Blizzard to get people to do essentially the same content over and over again. It is basically the Diablo model, instead of developing a full game they develop 1/3 of a game and make you do it 3 times. In short it is a way for them to keep people busy without spending money on developing content.

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