A civil-military democratic stratocracy?

[Nakura Chambers]

Yes, that's why you started us off with this relevant information:

And then followed it up with:

However, I have an interesting alternative that I'd like you to consider.

[Deleted]

When was the last time we saw a well-functioning stratocracy ?

[Netherspark]

Attempting to implement this would result nothing less than riots and possibly a civil war.

[Rukentuts]

And then followed it up with:

During which you went on a schpeel about imaginary police forces. Some alternative.

[Stir]

There is so much wrong with this idea that it's not easy to list them all, but here's four:
-Socio-economic disparity: The body in power (military) would call for higher wages, better education, and an all-around position of privilege. This would be unanimously agreed upon by the voting body, because it is the same body.
-Women's rights: There are a lot of physically demanding tasks in the military, the demands of which are harder to meet for women than for men. Meaning that a disproportionate amount of the voters is male, reinforcing gender roles and stereotypes, and effectively cutting as many women as possible out of the rights of citizenship.
-Serfdom: Any non-military inhabitant of the country is not a citizen, and therefore, does not enjoy inalienable rights of that country. While they still pay taxes. In effect, they will work not for themselves, but for the military power of the nation, and since they do not enjoy civil rights, they are easily exploitable. Any deficiency can easily be rectified by squeezing more out of the non-civil population, which inevitably leads to a standardized exploitation model that renders any and all non-military personal effectively in serfdom. Which is pretty much slavery. An example is ancient Egypt: There's this myth that the great pyramids were not built by slaves, and in a way, this is true... But in a much truer sense, it was not. You see, in times where such a construction was created, the Pharao's government would increase the taxes to a point where a lot of (poor) people could no longer afford to pay them, and they were in debt. It wasn't a problem, because the benevolent Pharao's Government had devised a plan for you to still be able to pay off your debt clean and everything, and eat and feed your family: You needed to work the pyramids. It is a kind of indentured slavery.
-No separation of forces: When the people holding the guns are also the people who tell you what to do, there is a problem. I hope I don't need to explain that.

Note: Non-citizens would not be discriminated against in any way, they simply wouldn't be allowed to vote or hold public office. All of their other rights would be protected under the constitution. Also, please note that it isn't supposed to be easy, it's supposed to be difficult.

The constitution is subject to change with a 75% majority vote (because the minority is powerless to stop it; I don't understand how you can not get that). Since everyone who is able to vote and/or govern is in a position of privilege, and everyone who is not is... Well; not, the ones who are not in a position of privilege will be powerless when it comes to any governing decision, and therefore, the constitution will automatically adjust to the situation by no longer protecting non-citizens. It is inevitable.

[Grizzly Willy]

I find it interesting, this desire for such a massive government.

Now that I think about it, this reminds me of my political mindset when I was in the 8th grade.

[s_bushido]

What possible benefit would a system like this provide? How would it be funded, other than by the labor of those who have no possibility of being represented in this government?

[live101]

Military should not give more and more power because sometimes they misuse the power and Missore is and Burning example

[Stir]

What possible benefit would a system like this provide? How would it be funded, other than by the labor of those who have no possibility of being represented in this government?

Serdom. I just wrote a whole bit about it. -_-

[s_bushido]

Serdom. I just wrote a whole bit about it. -_-

When I read "Serdom" I can't help but think of GRRM's use of the word "Ser" instead of "Sir" when talking about knights.

But, of course, you meant "serfdom." I just wonder why the OP thinks something we gave up a while ago is suddenly a good idea again.

[Vokal]

This thread is why using Starship Troopers as pornographic material is a bad idea.

[Metallikiddd]

Wasn't this idea in Starship Troopers?

yup, that's how you got citizenship. you had to serve.

[Stir]

When I read "Serdom" I can't help but think of GRRM's use of the word "Ser" instead of "Sir" when talking about knights.

*Laughs* Great catch, and wonderful interpretation! Thanks!

[N-7]

I see the following problems with your proposal:
1. It will produce a huge gap (7 years) of wasted opportunity for higher education in non-defence sector fields.
2. It will ridiculously oversaturate public jobs especially security related jobs and under-saturate private/public jobs in other sectors in the 16-23 demographic (14% of the population).
3. It will cost a shit ton of money to fund this programme.
4. It will turn your country into an even bigger military complex.
5. I suppose that non-citizens will not be taxed since they are not allowed to vote.
6. Will this be applied to everyone or to newborns/immigrants?

[Kellhound]

The only thing they should require for voting is passing the US Citizenship exam and being a legal citizen.

[Flame6]

I wonder if after 2 pages the OP will be able to admit that his original idea is a bad one and modify it to make it more realistic.

[Reeve]

So the only ones allowed to vote are those who have undergone state indoctrination first?

[Mihalik]

OP took the most extreme version of Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers Federal Service.

Heinlein was a fascist. Stratocracy is just a fancy word for Fascism. But it is not the typical fascism we all know and "love", but only borrows heavily on the idea of the Primacy of the State.

The idea behind this can be resumed as thus-

The people of the Terran Federation are either "Citizens" or "Civilians". Everyone is born a "Civilian", and at age 18 every "Civilian" has the right to enroll for a minimal 2-year term of "Federal Service". In theory a completed term of Federal Service ensures a "Citizen" is willing to put the needs of the community before their own personal well-being. This is because Federal Service is tough and dangerous (by design). It can involve joining the military, being a human guinea pig, testing survival equipment, or manual labour. The Federation makes it quite easy to quit a term of service before completion (even during war-time), but once someone has quit they are never allowed to enroll again. This is to ensure that all volunteers are dedicated, whilst also discouraging people from leaving.
The Federation makes the opportunity of Federal Service open to everyone, able-bodied or not. A doctor giving a medical examination says "if you came in here in a wheelchair and blind in both eyes and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find you something silly to match. Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch, maybe." The only impediment that can render one ineligible for federal service is if a psychiatrist determines that one cannot understand the oath of service.
"Civilians" are neither discriminated against, nor deprived of legal rights other than that of the ballot. Several examples from the book bear this out, particularly the fact that Juan Rico's family is prosperous and lacks for nothing save the right to vote (which Rico's father regards as "useless" anyway).
Only after completing a term of Federal Service can "Civilians" become "Citizens" and gain the right to vote.

I to some extent share the belief that universal suffrage is a mistake, because I don't believe everyone deserves the right to vote or that when they vote they do so without fully understanding the value of their vote.

But I disagree with such a highly militarized neo-fascist system. This is taking it too far. But I believe a thorough Civics education is necessary, a course that you need to approve to be eligible to vote, and for all those who approved voting should be obligatory with strict fines for not voting, but all this combined with the possibility to cast a blank ballot if someone disagrees with all candidates.

[tiporispit]

So, to sum up, only people willing to murder and maim other human beings over an idea or resource should be allowed to vote. Interesting concept. They should make a movie about that. Maybe use giant bugs as the antagonist.

[Dundebuns]

My career path involved entering university (college for you yanks) at 18, and finally graduating with a PhD 10 years later. How would your system benefit someone like me, who has taken the time to become incredibly schooled in their chosen field?