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  1. #1
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    Gem the chest, what would you do?

    I'm Arms. I'm still confused as to when to socket for the bonus. I see some people suggest sticking to gemming for bonuses, and then those people that forget the bonus and go for 320 crit. I know it's a stupid question, I guess I've just never really learned how to do it, so I'd appreciate any help.

    So here's a chest, the Battleplate of the prehistoric marauder. 3 Sockets.

    Go for 80 str + 160 crit x 3 + 180 str bonus (420 str, 480 crit)
    or 320 crit x 3 and no bonus (960 crit)

    What would you do? Personally, I went for the bonus, because in previous threads of mine, people have said just stick to the bonus. However, another warrior in my guild just went full crit.
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  2. #2
    I would use Fury's gemming/reforging priority. The differences between Arms and Fury aren't that big a deal due to gem stat budget. As for your question I'd go with Crafty (Expertise+Crit) provided you would be able to reforge out the Expertise elsewhere on your gear to Crit/Mastery. Failing that I'd probably do Strength+Crit as a last resort since 420 Strength should be stronger than an additional 480 Crit.

  3. #3
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    It depends on the weights, same with any other item/gem/enchant/reforge.

    If Strength is 1 and Crit is 0.75 (using random numbers)

    Then with your totals:
    420 stre + 480 crit = 780
    960 crit = 720

    i.e. strength + crit would win, but... It depends on YOUR weights.
    Last edited by Treelife; 2013-10-05 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    Well, using 540-1 (probs need updating) SimC with a default profile on your character, Patchwerk @ 10k Iterations, 20% Vary Length over 450s on Elite;
    Stre 4.05(1)
    Crit 3.01(0.74)
    Note: They change with EVERY change you make to your gear.

    So, I actually wasn't far off with my random numbers. But it still depends entirely on the fight. Movement/Switching/AoE/Cleaving etc, it all changes - so you have to use your brain a little and decide what you are going to need.
    Last edited by Treelife; 2013-10-05 at 01:18 PM.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Well, using 540-1 SimC with a default profile on your character, Patchwerk @ 10k Iterations, 20% Vary Length over 450s on Elite;
    Stre 4.05(1)
    Crit 3.01(0.74)
    Note: They change with EVERY change you make to your gear.

    So, I actually wasn't far off with my random numbers. But it still depends entirely on the fight. Movement/Switching/AoE/Cleaving etc, it all changes - so you have to use your brain a little and decide what you are going to need.
    Sorry, I appreciate the help, but did you notice I made a thread asking for help on how to gem? How am I going to understand what you just posted?

    I'm looking for more of the basic information. What's wrong with my character as it is now and how should I think about gemming? I mean, for example, I've read that I should gem crit to 32%. If that's true, should I ignore bonuses until I'm at 32?
    Last edited by Sarithus; 2013-10-05 at 01:22 PM.
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  7. #7
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    Sorry, I appreciate the help, but did you notice I made a thread asking for help on how to gem? How am I going to understand what you just posted?
    Okay, assuming you use the weights above (Stre:1 / Crit:0.74), you then just use those to work it out.

    420 stre (x1) = 420
    480 crit (x0.74) = 355.2
    420+355.2 = 775.2

    Or,

    960 crit (x0.74) = 710.4


    So, with the weights, you have basically worked out which one of the above (pure crit or socket bonuses) will be better. Bearing in mind one change of your gem will change those weights - which is why most people use a general weight and caps (haste breakpoints for example) instead.

    side-note; heavy night + early morning, so mind any errors in my already fail math.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    Sorry, I appreciate the help, but did you notice I made a thread asking for help on how to gem? How am I going to understand what you just posted?
    I guess he had hoped at lvl 90 you would understand Stat priorities.

    Strength = 1
    Crit = .76

    Add up the Str and Crit on the different Gemming options you have. Times each amount by the Stats number so Str x 1 or Crit x .76.

    The bigger number = the more benefit you get.
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  9. #9
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Okay, assuming you use the weights above (Stre:1 / Crit:0.74), you then just use those to work it out.

    420 stre (x1) = 420
    480 crit (x0.74) = 355.2
    420+355.2 = 775.2

    Or,

    960 crit (x0.74) = 710.4


    So, with the weights, you have basically worked out which one of the above (pure crit or socket bonuses) will be better. Bearing in mind one change of your gem will change those weights - which is why most people use a general weight and caps (haste breakpoints for example) instead.

    side-note; heavy night + early morning, so mind any errors in my already fail math.
    Again, thanks but...I'm talking really broadly here. Forget about the chest for now. Why do some people gem tons of crit and forget the bonus? Keep in mind a warrior in my guild does this, and he's on the same fights as me etc.

    I mean...should I use 320 crits until I get to 32%? The other warrior does it, another guide says so, but the mmo champ one doesn't.
    And when is a bonus not worth it? 60 str obviously, but 120 str?

    Edit: Just seen an arms warr with nothing but crit gems.
    Last edited by Sarithus; 2013-10-05 at 01:32 PM.
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  10. #10
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    Again, thanks but...I'm talking really broadly here. Forget about the chest for now. Why do some people gem tons of crit and forget the bonus? Keep in mind a warrior in my guild does this, and he's on the same fights as me etc.

    I mean...should I use 320 crits until I get to 32%? The other warrior does it, another guide says so, but the mmo champ one doesn't.
    For a guess because it's easier and s/he chose it as a general stat weighting for how they play. Up to you, honestly, using your abilities slightly more effectively/being more focused or awake will have more impact on your DPS than a slight change in crit/strength will.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    I'm Arms. I'm still confused as to when to socket for the bonus. I see some people suggest sticking to gemming for bonuses, and then those people that forget the bonus and go for 320 crit. I know it's a stupid question, I guess I've just never really learned how to do it, so I'd appreciate any help.

    So here's a chest, the Battleplate of the prehistoric marauder. 3 Sockets.

    Go for 80 str + 160 crit x 3 + 180 str bonus (420 str, 480 crit)
    or 320 crit x 3 and no bonus (960 crit)

    What would you do? Personally, I went for the bonus, because in previous threads of mine, people have said just stick to the bonus. However, another warrior in my guild just went full crit.

    If you just want to get a quick and dirty lesson on how to gem, do this. Meet every yellow socket bonus. Meet all single red +strength socket bonuses, using expertise/crit gems if you can use expertise to get to 7.5%, or str/crit if not. Ignore all single blue sockets unless you need hit, in which case use a hit+crit gem.

    When there are bad socket bonuses, like 3 sockets but only +120 strength bonus like the legs off malkorak, gem pure crit. Likewise if there are 2+ blue sockets. If there is a socket of each color, it's pretty much a wash whether you meet the bonus or not.

    Just remember, try to use expertise/crafty gems in red sockets to allow you to reforge more into mastery, as long as the expertise is useful.

    NOTE: This may not get you the 100% optimal results. To do so you'll need to know your stat weights and calculate SEP. But as a general guide it'll get you in the general area of where you want to be for gemming.

    Also, every other warrior guide I've seen outside of the MMO-C one is terrible.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    When there are bad socket bonuses, like 3 sockets but only +120 strength bonus like the legs off malkorak, gem pure crit.
    Okay, now, maybe I misunderstand but...you say 3 sockets should be pure crit?

    What about this, showing pure crit is worse?

    420 stre (x1) = 420
    480 crit (x0.74) = 355.2
    420+355.2 = 775.2

    Or,

    960 crit (x0.74) = 710.4
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HLkR9LI.png[IMG]
    You are looking for advice from a guy in full timeless? Go with what simcraft says.

  14. #14
    Immortal Treelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    You are looking for advice from a guy in full timeless? Go with what simcraft says.
    Yeah... This. "because u are getting more dps just gemming full crit" - it probably means he asked someone exactly the same thing from someone who also doesn't really know much.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Yeah... This. "because u are getting more dps just gemming full crit" - it probably means he asked someone exactly the same thing from someone who also doesn't really know much.
    Not to seem ungrateful, but no one has yet answered me why an actual good warrior in my guild gems more crit than focuses on bonus. Is the 32% thing correct? I can't do anything till I know...what to do.

    Him: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cnxey/advanced
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  16. #16

  17. #17
    Full crit is fury gemming, as arms go with exp/crit if you can reforge into mastery or strength/crit if you can't. Even for fury the exp/crit gems can be best since mastery has a great SEP value as well.
    Last edited by bigbad; 2013-10-05 at 01:56 PM.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    Not to seem ungrateful, but no one has yet answered me why an actual good warrior in my guild gems more crit than focuses on bonus. Is the 32% thing correct? I can't do anything till I know...what to do.

    Him: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Cnxey/advanced
    No the 32% thing is just weird. There is no effective crit cap, unless your gear is high enough ilvl that the value of mastery is better than that of crit, but I have not seen anyone who is at that point yet, if it even occurs this tier.

    For three sockets, if it's anything other than +2 blue just meet the bonus or gem pure crit. It's close enough that it won't really matter for you. I generally meet them, and my value for crit is higher than yours.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    I suck at this and maths in general. I think I'm just going to meet bonuses unless it's a crap bonus like haste or low str. It's only a game and I'm not smart enough to optimize, but it does suck not knowing the best way to do things and knowing my dps could be a bit higher if I did it right.
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  20. #20
    Sarithus, load your char on http://www.askmrrobot.com/ and you'll find out what you should be doing with your gems, reforges and enchants for it to be optimal.
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