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  1. #201
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Exactly.

    Things were only 'hard' in TBC if you didn't do them the 'correct' way.

    Speed run 5 mans without a Prot Paladin? Lololololol

    DPS Shaman/Warrior/Paladin in a 5 man? Lolololololol

    Not bringing loads of Resto Shaman to a raid? Lololololol

    It was all about preparation back then. Things are more streamlined now, with more viable options. But things have gotten exceedingly more difficult in other respects.
    Prot paladin's were few & far between on my server. Most tanks were bears and warriors. I don't even remember ret being raid viable in BC.

  2. #202
    The Lightbringer Shadow the Edgehog's Avatar
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    Players have become better, but raids have gotten harder.

    Compare a BC boss with a MoP boss. A BC boss will have 2, maybe 3 mechanics to watch out for. A MoP boss will have 2-3 mechanics that everyone needs to watch for, on top of personal responsibilities for each raider (specific tank, DPS, and healer mechanics).

    Other aspects of the game have gotten easier, both actually and seemingly, but that's also because of all the information we can share now. We didn't have as many ways to share things like class strategies and boss fights back then.

    Take for instance, another part of the game: Guild recruitment. It's easy to find a new guild these days, much moreso than it used to be, because of things like WoWProgress. Joining certain guilds may be harder than others though.

    All-in-all, I'd say the way the game is played has become much more difficult in some aspects than in others.
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  3. #203
    How to play a mage/warlock/hunter in BC

    1111111111111111111111111 (well ok you had to press 2 to apply hunter's mark and curse of shadows/elements).

    BC was bretty hard and skill based! The difference between a top end hunter/warlock from an average one was definitely obvious!

  4. #204
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Compare a BC boss with a MoP boss. A BC boss will have 2, maybe 3 mechanics to watch out for. A MoP boss will have 2-3 mechanics that everyone needs to watch for, on top of personal responsibilities for each raider (specific tank, DPS, and healer mechanics).
    Kael'Thas says hi!

    A four phase boss with 4 adds in one phase with different abilities...
    a 7 add phase needing healers, dps, and tanks to perform a role...
    then another 4 add phase but stronger than the first...
    and then if you live you get the fight the boss who also has a couple personal phases

    All in total a 5 phase fight if I remember correctly

  5. #205
    We had three Paladins in our guild in TBC and it was a logistical nightmare trying to get all three to cooperate when buffing. That's at least one thing which is easier nowadays.

  6. #206
    The Patient Ysoph's Avatar
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    Game is way more user friendly and way more complicated when it comes to personal skill or pre-raid preparation.

  7. #207
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Exactly.

    Things were only 'hard' in TBC if you didn't do them the 'correct' way.

    Speed run 5 mans without a Prot Paladin? Lololololol
    You probably only ran 5-mans with the Isle of Quel'Danas badges gear when they were nerfed and outgeared in the late BC. Dungeons weren't difficult because warriors (or druids...) couldn't multitank them, but because they would get 'insta-gibbed' if they as much as tried to multitank them; which affected protection paladins as well.
    Also, as far as the myth of protection paladins threat is concerned, a protection paladin trying to multitank most BC heroics without outgearing them greatly, would require so much burst healing on the pull that he couldn't probably keep even the mob he was actually hitting, let alone the ones who only got a tick of consecration: healer dead. Speed run? Lol.
    Bottom line: invalid argument, you do not know what you're talking about.
    Last edited by Memory; 2013-10-06 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #208
    No. The game has not become harder then it was during The Burning Crusade expansion.

    It's easier in every single regard, from leveling to high end raiding, to quality of life and access to gear. I miss TBC.

  9. #209
    Harder to stomach! waka waka

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    No. The game has not become harder then it was during The Burning Crusade expansion.

    It's easier in every single regard, from leveling to high end raiding, to quality of life and access to gear. I miss TBC.
    I agree with this, except I don't miss TBC. I miss the people I played with, but the game was pretty frustrating with the class that I choose to play.

  11. #211
    .... Harder than TBC? is this a trolling-thread or something?.... you go ahead and tell me a single boss that has ever lasted 4 IRL months before anyone ever got the world-first kill?

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    Prot paladin's were few & far between on my server. Most tanks were bears and warriors. I don't even remember ret being raid viable in BC.
    That's probably because people didn't see prot palas as viable.
    It took me until we had killed Illidan to be allowed to go prot and when I was finally allowed to try it for one raid I could disenchant my holy gear after the raid since my guild leaders suddenly realized just how good prot palas were.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    You probably only ran 5-mans with the Isle of Quel'Danas badges gear when they were nerfed and outgeared in the late BC. Dungeons weren't difficult because warriors (or druids...) couldn't multitank them, but because they would get 'insta-gibbed' if they as much as tried to multitank them; which affected protection paladins as well.
    Also, as far as the myth of protection paladins threat is concerned, a protection paladin trying to multitank most BC heroics without outgearing them greatly, would require so much burst healing on the pull that he couldn't probably keep even the mob he's actually hitting, let alone the ones who only got a tick of consecration: healer dead. Speed run? Lol.
    Bottom line: invalid argument, you do not know what you're talking about.
    Prot Paladins needed to outgear heroic dungeons to even be functional tanks. So yes, if you got a Prot Paladin who didn't suck, he was in full epics. It's not like they started the expansion with ridiculous survivability and better-than-DPS damage *coughdruidscough* or were Blizzard's favorite child who got an off-global button to push nasties off their combat table for free.
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  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    No. The game has not become harder then it was during The Burning Crusade expansion.

    It's easier in every single regard, from leveling to high end raiding, to quality of life and access to gear. I miss TBC.
    High end raiding in TBC was just gear checks. Nothing was hard about it aside from having 25 people in a raid that actually knew how to read and follow instructions (Guilds fail today for these same reasons.) The only bosses comparable to today are Mag, KT, and Vashj. those are the only fights that required personal responsibility. BT took forever because you needed to collect resist gear for the entire raid. Sunwell was just bosses who required ridiculous amounts of gear to kill. And of course, any guild stuck in Karazhan couldn't go into BT because of the gear check. Not because it was hard.

    Blizzard removed the gear check and increased the difficulty of bosses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Filipse View Post
    .... Harder than TBC? is this a trolling-thread or something?.... you go ahead and tell me a single boss that has ever lasted 4 IRL months before anyone ever got the world-first kill?

    Tell me one that lasted 4 months in TBC that didn't require some kind of gear check or was bugged?

  15. #215
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimeir View Post
    Tell me one that lasted 4 months in TBC that didn't require some kind of gear check or was bugged?
    Tell me one that's lasted more than 3 weeks in MoP?

    KT lasted close to 3 months if i remember correctly.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimeir View Post
    High end raiding in TBC was just gear checks. Nothing was hard about it aside from having 25 people in a raid that actually knew how to read and follow instructions (Guilds fail today for these same reasons.) The only bosses comparable to today are Mag, KT, and Vashj. those are the only fights that required personal responsibility. BT took forever because you needed to collect resist gear for the entire raid. Sunwell was just bosses who required ridiculous amounts of gear to kill. And of course, any guild stuck in Karazhan couldn't go into BT because of the gear check. Not because it was hard.

    Blizzard removed the gear check and increased the difficulty of bosses.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Tell me one that lasted 4 months in TBC that didn't require some kind of gear check or was bugged?
    I don't remember any gear checks till BT, and I was in a server first guild. Also don't remember any bugged fights besides Mother Shahraz, and we killed her before they fixed the bugs.

    No, any guild stuck in Kara couldn't go to BT because there was attunements in place. This shows that you didn't play the expansion, or at the very least you joined extremely late into it when they removed them.

  17. #217
    Mechanically raids are harder, but players are better. In TBC the mechanics weren't that hard really, just people were shit/didn't have addons/UI like we do now to tell us what to do all the time. i.e VEM which basically tells you how to raid and GTFO etc.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    Tell me one that's lasted more than 3 weeks in MoP?

    KT lasted close to 3 months if i remember correctly.
    KT lasted for 1 month after getting unlocked by killing the other 3 bosses in there.
    High Astromancer Solarian - 24th April 2007
    Death Wish, Cho'gall US
    Kael'thas Sunstrider - 25th May 2007
    Nihilum, Magtheridon EU

    And raiding KT while fun was very time consuming, 1 try could easily last 10-15 minutes while today (in many fights at least) you will have done several attempts in the same time.
    Last edited by Caelia; 2013-10-06 at 05:43 PM.

  19. #219
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimeir View Post
    High end raiding in TBC was just gear checks. Nothing was hard about it aside from having 25 people in a raid that actually knew how to read and follow instructions (Guilds fail today for these same reasons.) The only bosses comparable to today are Mag, KT, and Vashj. those are the only fights that required personal responsibility. BT took forever because you needed to collect resist gear for the entire raid. Sunwell was just bosses who required ridiculous amounts of gear to kill. And of course, any guild stuck in Karazhan couldn't go into BT because of the gear check. Not because it was hard.
    You can reduce every boss to a gear check, probably also current ones (which I cannot talk about because, aside from a brief experience with the first tier of Cataclysm hard modes, I stopped proper raiding in the WotLK).
    But it's false to state that guilds stuck in Karazhan couldn't go to BT because of the gear checks. Karazhan gear was good to kill anything before SWP (not sure about an un-nerfed KT, but that's beyond the point). Gear, in fact, didn't either scale so much before SWP: if you'd look at gear comparison between T4 and T6, you would see little change, then a sudden jump with SWP gear.
    Do I remember wrong or an Asian guild killed Illidan within days of the Asian release of the BC? Of course they didn't have to deal with un-nerfed Gruul, Magtheridon, KT and such, but that's not the point (can't remember if the attunements were also removed, all or any; probably). Simply, not much can be regarded as a techical 'gear-check' before SWP.
    And fights that required personal responsibility were plenty, don't mix tasks differentiation with personal responsibility.
    Last edited by Memory; 2013-10-06 at 07:00 PM.

  20. #220
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    KT lasted for 1 month after getting unlocked by killing the other 3 bosses in there.
    High Astromancer Solarian - 24th April 2007
    Death Wish, Cho'gall US
    Kael'thas Sunstrider - 25th May 2007
    Nihilum, Magtheridon EU

    And raiding KT while fun was very time consuming, 1 try could easily last 10-15 minutes while today (in many fights at least) you will have done several attempts in the same time.
    I basing on when the raid was unlocked which would have been 2 1/2 months. I should have clarified.
    Last edited by Raidboss; 2013-10-06 at 05:47 PM. Reason: watching football game and not typing proper english....doh!

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