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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    Void Reaver was killed first on March 11th...they didn't kill KT until May 25th...we can meet in the middle at 2 1/2 months.
    What does Void Reaver have to do with anything? First look on KT was on the day of Solarians death since KT was inaccessible before that time.
    Yes it took 2½ months to clear the entire instance I can give you that, but KT alone lasted for 1 month.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    TBC had a major issue - a lack of tanks.
    Tanking was just harder in TBC so less people did it. That and paladin tanks were a must for some areas.

  3. #223
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    What does Void Reaver have to do with anything? First look on KT was on the day of Solarians death since KT was inaccessible before that time.
    Yes it took 2½ months to clear the entire instance I can give you that, but KT alone lasted for 1 month.
    By that measure Garrosh lasted days.

  4. #224
    Boss Mechanics have become more complex, and there are just more of them in a fight. Although players have gotten better, there are more resources available to them, gear itemization, better talents. It's hard to gauge, but in my opinion the game has become more complex boss mechanic and rotation wise and less tedious attunement and grind wise.
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells
    You don't get to troll, lie, and treat government like a game for your own purposes and then expect to be treated like a statesmen. Fuck that.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs View Post
    Tanking was just harder in TBC so less people did it. That and paladin tanks were a must for some areas.
    Paladin tanks weren't required anywhere, if they were it's because the rest of the group was bad not because paladins were the only viable tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    By that measure Garrosh lasted days.
    And so he did, but then again the amount of gear that 1 guild get in the span of 1 week nowdays far exceeds than the amount of gear a guild would get back in TBC which made for slower progression, especially when bosses were gearchecks.

  6. #226
    Man if I played back then with my skillset now and real addons it would be a cakewalk.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    Paladin tanks weren't required anywhere, if they were it's because the rest of the group was bad not because paladins were the only viable tanks.



    And so he did, but then again the amount of gear that 1 guild get in the span of 1 week nowdays far exceeds than the amount of gear a guild would get back in TBC which made for slower progression, especially when bosses were gearchecks.
    Paladins were just about required for Hyjal Trash, as no other tanking class had good aoe tanking till the Wrath Patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells
    You don't get to troll, lie, and treat government like a game for your own purposes and then expect to be treated like a statesmen. Fuck that.

  8. #228
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    And so he did, but then again the amount of gear that 1 guild get in the span of 1 week nowdays far exceeds than the amount of gear a guild would get back in TBC which made for slower progression, especially when bosses were gearchecks.
    So then we are in agreement raiding in BC was harder than it is today...great!
    Last edited by Raidboss; 2013-10-06 at 06:08 PM.

  9. #229
    And once again we come back around to the same old argument.

    "Slower" and "more tedious" do not necessarily equate with "harder."
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  10. #230
    Herald of the Titans miffy23's Avatar
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    Sadly, the nostalgic don't want to accept that Lumineus.

    I also find it incredibly amusing how "former top raiders" or "back in the day i was an ace, brah" comments come from people that admittedly don't raid heroic these days or haven't since Wotlk, Cata, whatever. Yeah - really valuable empirical data isn't it. Comes right back to what I said pages ago - too many youtube raiders and hearsay town criers.

    Just play it for yourself, and stop jacking off to your own glory days.

  11. #231
    Legendary cloak is harder and takes more skill to get than atiesh in classic.

    Legendary cloak takes like 4 months of errands but any idiot can just kill bosses in naxx40 and usually finish his staff in less than 4 months.

  12. #232
    Immortal Clockwork Pinkie's Avatar
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    It's the same as BC. You do 5 mans for badges that can get you gear on par or equal to the raids that you will be doing. Only in BC you also had another option of spamming AV, getting honor for an entire day, and just buying welfare Merciless gear and raiding like that, and still did as well as the next guy in full PvE gear. Content and mechanics wise, not really, they just add more stuff to avoid, and attempt to complicate things more than they should.


  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Sadly, the nostalgic don't want to accept that Lumineus.

    I also find it incredibly amusing how "former top raiders" or "back in the day i was an ace, brah" comments come from people that admittedly don't raid heroic these days or haven't since Wotlk, Cata, whatever. Yeah - really valuable empirical data isn't it. Comes right back to what I said pages ago - too many youtube raiders and hearsay town criers.

    Just play it for yourself, and stop jacking off to your own glory days.
    Yeah, okay buddy. You try and get your bachelors while raising two children as a single parent. Let's see how much raid time you can get into the week when you have real life to deal with.

  14. #234
    Herald of the Titans miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Yeah, okay buddy. You try and get your bachelors while raising two children as a single parent. Let's see how much raid time you can get into the week when you have real life to deal with.
    I was in no way critisizing people not playing or having real life. I was making the point that "former top raiders" deem themselves capable of offhandedly judging todays' content without playing it, sometimes without having raided in years. That is all.

  15. #235
    I like how implying TBC wasn't superior in every single tiny little aspect is enough to just blow some people's minds.

  16. #236
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    I also find it incredibly amusing how "former top raiders" or "back in the day i was an ace, brah" comments come from people that admittedly don't raid heroic these days or haven't since Wotlk, Cata, whatever. Yeah - really valuable empirical data isn't it. Comes right back to what I said pages ago - too many youtube raiders and hearsay town criers.
    From what I see, the same reasoning applies to both parties.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    Only in BC you also had another option of spamming AV, getting honor for an entire day, and just buying welfare Merciless gear and raiding like that, and still did as well as the next guy in full PvE gear.
    Isn't it the same now? Now you can also AFK in Tol Barad.

  17. #237
    Fights more complex, more abilities, priority dps instead of pure memorized rotation... More players are better however, so any increase in "difficulty" is effectively moot for the most part.

    Looking at the question of whether or not the game itself is harder, if someone from BC played right now, yea they'd have a hard time.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/stormrage/No_Helmet_Required/

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I was having a night of nostalgia and was stalking wow progress to see if any of the people I used to raid with daily still played.

    What impressed me is the world ranking we were getting back then compared to the ranking we get now.
    More specifically we were top1600 worldwide in TBC as opposed to top6000 now.

    The question that popped up immediately was did the game actually become harder after all these years? And that what I'd like to discuss.

    For your own agenda, what ranks did you get in TBC as opposed to nowadays?
    The game is not just the heroic raids.

    The 5-mans, both normal and heroic, are retardedly easy in MOP compared to tastefully challenging in TBC.

    In killing NPCs in the world, MOP also fails because there is no danger of death and it's all about faceroll aoe.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    TBC had a major issue - a lack of tanks.
    There wasn't a lack of tanks, just a lack of tanks that pugged
    Stormspellz -mugthol
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  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    What does Void Reaver have to do with anything? First look on KT was on the day of Solarians death since KT was inaccessible before that time.
    Yes it took 2½ months to clear the entire instance I can give you that, but KT alone lasted for 1 month.
    Not to mention back then every tier came out at once.

    Back then people heading into T5 instances had just enough gear to beat T4.

    Now people heading into the new raid (normal/heroic raiders) have full gear from the previous tier and are probably nearly fully geared from it with item upgraded, reforged and gemmed gear.

    I guarantee if they held tier 5 off in TBC and released one raid at a time (remember most people worked on SSC and TK simultaneously) then most people would have downed bosses quicker because they'd be fully geared from the previous tier.

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