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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    The game is harder but the amount of information available to players has greatly increased. Thus the misconception that the game is now "easier" than back in tBC.
    I'm not so sure I agree. During TBC I was part of a T5/T6 guild and then a Sunwell progression guild. And I specificially remember these things


    1. Deadly Boss Mods + Bigwigs. One of either being a requirement.
    2. Highly detailed boss guides all over the internet, including a good basic idea of boss mechanics for Sunwell being available before it hit live servers.
    3. Highly detailed and well made boss guide videos all over youtube.


    We didn't have the dungeon journal but it surely wasn't hard to find out boss info, what we know today from the Journal is perhaps only a convenience that slightly speeds up the process. Though boss strategy's could be quite complex back then the fights themselves didn't include much "player responsibility" compared to today, save for a select few fights.


    I remember Tier 5/6 raiding and some of the hilariously bad players we had, I remember people failing to absolute basic mechanics and we still overcome the bosses, I remember this not even being unusual, the sort of player that gets made fun of and kicked from LFR wasn't all that unusual in my first experience raiding. It was only when I joined the Sunwell progress guild that I saw what a properly organised and focussed guild played like. This is a time when I considered myself an amazing PVE player and if you looked at damage logs (often the measure of skill back then) I was more than capable, but if you had thrown me into todays raids I wouldn't have stood a chance.

    Raiding definitely became a lot more difficult on the average, I don't think dungeon journal really makes any real difference if you're comparing to TBC.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2013-10-06 at 01:36 AM.
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  2. #22
    Hardmodes is whats inflated the difficulty so much. in TBC we'd spend weeks on a boss, but that boss was the only incarnation of it we'd kill. Now we kill a boss and re visit it on hardmode and it's the exact same boss + a new ability a buttload of hp. I don't see that is overly fun.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    The game is harder but the amount of information available to players has greatly increased.
    That's not true at all. Theorycrafting, logs, guildrankings (not wowprogress though can't remember sitename), discussion, guides, PTR were all available just like they are right now.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    People have just gotten better, in a nutshell.
    The addons are better
    The Ui's are better
    The players are better INFORMED


    I'd wager 90% of the players are mouth-breathing welfare haulers

    And yes, some of the bosses are more mechanix and abilities - so more involved.

  5. #25
    People have a higher "WOW IQ". Just like standard IQ has been rising over the last century due to the requirements of everyday living changing to become complex. Also due to the fact that the wow population is filled with many players with years of experience. Experience that has already exposed them to many of the standard mechanics the new bosses have. At the same time blizzard has introduced more ways for players to learn the game to offset the learning curve.

    If you were to take raiders from 8 years ago and expose them to the heroic bosses today they most certainly would struggle to catch up. Now days if someone completely new is introduced to the game they benefit from the experience of other players who can help them a long as well as the enormous amount of information available on the web and in game.

    So is it harder? Yes, but people are more prepared for it and it needs to be harder in order to challenge them.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    The addons are better
    The Ui's are better
    The players are better INFORMED


    I'd wager 90% of the players are mouth-breathing welfare haulers

    And yes, some of the bosses are more mechanix and abilities - so more involved.
    Would you wager your life to me?

  7. #27
    This isn't really a yes or no question.
    The world, questing, dungeons are without a doubt alot easier.

    Are raids harder now? Only if your true goal is heroic, and are actually getting somewhere. All those "semi-hardcore raiding guilds" half-assing in normal wouldn't have gotten anywhere beyond kara in TBC.

  8. #28
    Banned Korgoth's Avatar
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    Heroic modes even in Wrath were harder then TBC normal, but of course TBC normal was way above normal now. I'd like to think I'd still be raiding if they didn't put in the heroic model, 10mans and LFR.

    There was something great about there being 1 instance of moderate difficulty that increased as you progressed through it. You killed a boss for the first time once and it was a big deal, there was no training wheel version, or no handle bars version.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    I feel like a lot of older bosses hit a lot harder with their basic attacks (tanks getting gibbed was very common back then compared to now) and tanks didn't have as much control over their damage intake as they do now. That can often lead to a nostalgic view that the bosses were harder. In reality, they were less fair and players were much worse than they are now.
    This is true. Blizzard abandoned the idea that bosses should be able to kill off tanks so easily and gave tanks mechanics to deal with instead. Such as tank swaps, adds spawning, and various other things to keep track of and react to with their personal cooldowns. This makes the game more difficult and rewarding when done right for the tank but less difficult for the group if the tank knows what he's doing. I think we can all agree this is a good thing. RNG wipes were never fun. We want a challenge not a slot machine. Well at least I hope we do. Intermittent rewards are used throughout wow with great success. The human brain is wired to respond to that. But I try not to get trapped into that type of play to often.
    Last edited by Zmaniac17; 2013-10-06 at 04:20 AM.

  10. #30
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    The hard content today (heroic raids) is harder than the hard content of TBC (raids), by far. The difference is, today you have a lot of choice in how you want to raid (LFR, flex, normal, hc). A lot of players that say Cata/MoP is easy, never set foot in a heroic raid while it was current.

    That's from a PvE raiding perspective. If you're talking 5-mans, questing, leveling, etc, my answer would be different.
    Last edited by Beace; 2013-10-06 at 04:21 AM.

  11. #31
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I think a lot of the game has been simplified (although not rotations) but contrary to people's opinions that raids were a lot harder then, I don't think they were. Yes, Wrath was easier than BC, but I think Cata and Mists raids are harder overall than BC.

    I've always been a fairly casual raider. In BC, I made it to Sunwell (was working on the twins when Wrath dropped). Nowadays, I typically full clear normal and knock a few heroics out before the next tier comes, which on the grand scale of progression is a lot "worse." I don't think me, or my raid team has gotten worse... I think the content overall has just gotten harder.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adp View Post
    Would you wager your life to me?
    I don't know man

    Can you complete the snow H Scen without dieing 5 times?

    If so, send me a/s/l

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    The game has gotten much, much easier. Going from hour-long-wipe-fest heroic 5 mans in BC, to 15 minute roll-your-face-on-keyboard-easy heroic 5 mans in the last 3 expansions. Normal raids in BC were like heroic raids nowadays.

    Not saying that getting easier is worse for the the game or anyone playing it.

    I don't really know what I ranked world wide, but server I was always number one by a large margin.
    Most people were brand new at the game back in TBC, which added to a majority of the content seeing harder than it really was back then. I guarantee you that if we took players that played now and subbed them into players during BC, dungeons for example would be a complete joke. JMO and I stand by it.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    People have just gotten better, in a nutshell.
    Exactly, with all the tools & sites we have now a days. Veteran players are now seasoned vets.

    It just comes to us now, we have been doing this for 8 years it eventually we will get better.

    We just got better.

  15. #35
    Immortal Tizzlefix's Avatar
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    Hehe... No the content is easier, try playing on any private server that is Vanilla or BC, 5 mans are even harder and do require you to think about pulls sometimes. Really content is actually harder back in Vanilla and BC, you couldn't steamroll through shit.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KClovesGaming View Post
    Most people were brand new at the game back in TBC, which added to a majority of the content seeing harder than it really was back then. I guarantee you that if we took players that played now and subbed them into players during BC, dungeons for example would be a complete joke. JMO and I stand by it.
    The dungeons now arent even a joke they are just a sad sad waste of content. So having "joke" dungeons would be better than what we have now.

    1. useless (Heroic Scen Valor)
    2. easy (AOE AOE AOE MY EYES)
    3. boring (AOE AOE AOE)
    4. lame (AOE AOE AOE)

    Did i mention AOE? 99% recount chain lightning up in this dungeon, elite.

  17. #37
    Immortal Tizzlefix's Avatar
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    Currently as we're speaking, I'm running SFK, god damn ghost wolves and the group doesn't understand that we shackle a big guy and AoE the wolves down fast.

  18. #38
    5 man heroics in BC were easy in t5/t6 gear. Raids weren't that hard.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brakthir View Post
    5 man heroics in BC were easy in t5/t6 gear. Raids weren't that hard.
    I like to think of over-gearing is fine, because eventually you will get stronger. However the dungeons don't have to start out so piss-poor.

    Some stronger mechanics that are avoidable or interruptable or something that scales better than Hp/dmg %% for mobs would be nice too.

  20. #40
    I am Murloc! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    no the game is now a lot easier than it used to be
    You kill or you die. Or you die and you kill.
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