Page 8 of 20 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
18
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    When you make the example too black and white it becomes impractical.

    The "3-4 week" TBC progress bosses still had people needing to learn mechanics and dieing to mechanics regularly, while they were learning the fight. The truth is that you couldn't always pinpoint exactly what was going wrong or wether it was just purely because of gear that you were having a hard time. In my memory there also were a lot more insta-kill mechanics in most TBC bossfights compared to MoP (and less combat rezzes).

    When you're trying to down a boss, you're trying to down a boss, you're not just going 'oh maybe we'll come back next week when our gear is better', no. So the 500 wipe progress bosses from TBC will come across as much harder than the 50-wipe bosses of MoP. It's about how the raiders experience the content. Even if something would be 'objectively' harder, it wouldn't matter if it does not come across that way to the raiders.
    But those mechanics were fairly simple and bosses only had 2 maybe 3. Not to mention raiders were still fairly new to the game and raiding. Today most of the raiders have been around and raiding for years are very competent. Most of the fights were highly gear dependent while today most wipes are related to mechanic mistakes. I have read hundreds of threads of people complaining how hard T14 was months after it came out from people in guilds with above 496 ilvl players when you had many guilds clear it in the first week in mostly 463 blues. Sure there were a couple of DPS checks but none that required a full set of current tier gear. Any one claiming raiding was more difficult either does not play currently or is being intellectually dishonest.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    Mechanics are A LOT harder than they were in TBC. Yes, game is harder, but players are a lot better as well. Today's average raider is a far better player than those who cleared Classic/TBC World Firsts back then.
    You are desilusional. The average raider is worse. The top (and from top i mean top 10 guilds) probably are better because the play more.

  3. #143
    High Overlord Sygil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    183
    The game difficulty increases aren't matching the skill increases of the players (top tier players that is).

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by freighttrain View Post
    But those mechanics were fairly simple and bosses only had 2 maybe 3. Not to mention raiders were still fairly new to the game and raiding. Today most of the raiders have been around and raiding for years are very competent. Most of the fights were highly gear dependent while today most wipes are related to mechanic mistakes. I have read hundreds of threads of people complaining how hard T14 was months after it came out from people in guilds with above 496 ilvl players when you had many guilds clear it in the first week in mostly 463 blues. Sure there were a couple of DPS checks but none that required a full set of current tier gear. Any one claiming raiding was more difficult either does not play currently or is being intellectually dishonest.
    Kael'thas (among others) has more mechanics than garosh. No fight in the pasr required a full gear of the tier. Every fight now (as always) is much easier with gear. Normal modes (and some heroic fights) are easier than your average boss in TBC

  5. #145
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sylvanas EU - Denmark
    Posts
    1,954
    The actual bosses in heroic raid instances are much much more complex. The game has also been 'nerfed' by all the overhauls - Items are properly itemized. All specs are 'viable' and so on.

  6. #146
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,393
    Quote Originally Posted by cits View Post
    Kael'thas (among others) has more mechanics than garosh. No fight in the pasr required a full gear of the tier. Every fight now (as always) is much easier with gear. Normal modes (and some heroic fights) are easier than your average boss in TBC
    Kael'thas wasn't an average boss, most of them had very few mechanics.

    I'd agree bosses like Vashj, Kael'thas and Archimonde would be amongst the hardest today, but there were a lot of easy bosses back in TBC which just relied mainly on gear

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Time investment != hard
    Grinding != difficult

    Being dedicated does not mean you are automatically a good player, nor does not playing every day automatically signify you're a bad.
    And 100 mechanics != hard
    1 mechanics that will wipe you if fails are hard than the 8 mechanics that hurts you for 30% of you hp if you fail from today.

  8. #148
    It depends. HC raids are on 100% sure harder. Rest of content is easy mode much easier then TBC ever was. And lot of todsays mechanics are only about using raid cds in right time. TBC had few mehanichs what pretty much wiped raid fi somones fail. In Mop lot of them just do some 20% - 70% hp dmg easy avodable some def cd.
    Last edited by Sinndor; 2013-10-06 at 02:02 PM.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by cits View Post
    And 100 mechanics != hard
    1 mechanics that will wipe you if fails are hard than the 8 mechanics that hurts you for 30% of you hp if you fail from today.
    Actually mechanics on heroic will one shot you as well. It takes more awareness as well to dodge 100 mechanics vs a simple one shot every once and a while.
    Last edited by worsthitmanNa; 2013-10-06 at 02:04 PM.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by worsthitmanNa View Post
    Actually mechanics on heroic will one shot you as well. It takes more awareness as well to dodge 100 mechanics vs a simple one shot every once and a while.
    I agree. My point is that on average Heroic now > Normal then >> Normal now.

  11. #151
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,553
    WoW isnt difficult, never was and never will be. It was once more "grindy" than it is today and some aspects were less accessible and unclear.

    The actual game is just common sense. The most challenging part of WoW is getting a bunch of competent people together who have a brain and the right attitude.
    Random stuff WoW UI Enthusiast WoW
    Youtube Some old UIs care#2582
    Stream (WoW most evenings now) Lastest UI (Roth's Diablo inspired) EU-Horde

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by carebear View Post
    WoW isnt difficult, never was and never will be. It was once more "grindy" than it is today and some aspects were less accessible and unclear.

    The actual game is just common sense. The most challenging part of WoW is getting a bunch of competent people together who have a brain and the right attitude.
    Wow was difficult. When l look at todays LFR or Flex or even normals are completly joke raids.

  13. #153
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    10,360
    Quote Originally Posted by carebear View Post
    WoW isnt difficult, never was and never will be. It was once more "grindy" than it is today and some aspects were less accessible and unclear.

    The actual game is just common sense. The most challenging part of WoW is getting a bunch of competent people together who have a brain and the right attitude.
    WoW is a horribly complex game.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  14. #154
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,393
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    Wow was difficult. When l look at todays LFR or Flex or even normals are completly joke raids.
    I don't get your point?

    Surely it's a good thing that every mode isn't hard now?

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    TBC had a major issue - a lack of tanks.
    Remember our holy pal having to spec tank for MH, boy was that a learning curve for him lol.

  16. #156
    Raids have become more difficult, no doubt about that. More than twice the mechanics, and unforgivable fights.

    Dungeons, world, travel, acquiring gear etc etc, has become much easier.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstormen View Post
    WoW is a horribly complex game.
    I do hope that's sarcasm.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    there were roughly 1/6th as many guilds raiding in tbc as there are in mop, that explains the rank difference.
    Arent there less players playing now? And even less raiders? Wow's numbers have been falling since BC IIRC so there is no logic in your statement, rank should be easier now with less ppl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellent View Post
    Steal any bicycles today SunBakedDuck?

  19. #159
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Liverpool, Merseyside
    Posts
    4,393
    Quote Originally Posted by SunbakedDuck View Post
    Arent there less players playing now? And even less raiders? Wow's numbers have been falling since BC IIRC so there is no logic in your statement, rank should be easier now with less ppl.
    Blizzard themselves said that more people now are raiding than ever, and the majority of subs lost came from China

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by freighttrain View Post
    But those mechanics were fairly simple and bosses only had 2 maybe 3. Not to mention raiders were still fairly new to the game and raiding. Today most of the raiders have been around and raiding for years are very competent. Most of the fights were highly gear dependent while today most wipes are related to mechanic mistakes. I have read hundreds of threads of people complaining how hard T14 was months after it came out from people in guilds with above 496 ilvl players when you had many guilds clear it in the first week in mostly 463 blues. Sure there were a couple of DPS checks but none that required a full set of current tier gear. Any one claiming raiding was more difficult either does not play currently or is being intellectually dishonest.
    I'm going to make this real easy for you.

    PvE is and has never been hard. The hardest part of PvE is getting enough people together who are not idiots to do the encounter. You seriously do the exact same thing every single fight over n over till you get it correct it never changes. 90% of the WoW PvE bosses are the exact same mechanics with different names and visual.

    I raided Naxx in Vanilla and BT in BC and ICC reg in LK. Quit in Cata because after the first few months when the game looked like it would get hard again they nerfed it all. MoP PvE is a joke. It's boring as hell. So i have yet to do any.

    From my exp. i would say BC>LK>Vanilla.

    Before all you naysayers let me know how hard Vanilla was. Shut your trap. It was not hard, it was grindy and classes/bosses were broken that's about it. 10-15 people would just flat out die - do nothing or go AFK and you still killed bosses.

    I remember in BC A lot of guilds couldn't even get past the first encounter in Gruuls lair nor Magtheridon's lair.

    I have yet to do a raid since Gruul and Magtheridon where you need your entire raid to actually participate in doing something.

    Sure i don't have full MoP raiding experience and i can without a doubt say after i did the first raid i could give 2 shits about raiding in MoP it sucks. i'd rather do LFR real quick see the encounter and be on my way.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •