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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    I would say the game became incredibly easier
    I would say it was never that hard to begin with.
    I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn, they will be gone - whispering their hidden song...

  2. #182
    Game is harder than ever but players are also better. Just all there is to it.

    And no you can't say overall the game is easier because 5mans (lol) were harder in TBC or Cata or what...

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    As a tank back in the days i never ever worried about threat, except for healers maybe.
    There was a very big noticable difference between tanks back in the days too.

    You had 90% of the tanks that sucked, 8% that knew how to use their mitigation abilities properly ... and then the rare 2% that were also good at generating high threat. Majority of the people in TBC probably never got to see a 'master' tank in their lifetime, but as a top raidguild back then you clearly got to see the huge skillgaps between tanks. If your tank was really really good your raid could go full out on the DPS race. If he was mediocre (like 98% of the tanks in raidguilds were back then) you had your DPS often having to hold back and content also was much harder then...

    The game probably was much more skill-based back then too if I've to think of it, it's much easier to master your class nowadays. Most of these things that were part of the gameplay were considered as inconvenience and 'not fun' at a later point. Such as having to keep an eye on threat levels etc.
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  4. #184
    Immortal adam86shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    I would say it was never that hard to begin with.
    true, was more time consuming - 2hr dungeons YAWN

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    There was a very big noticable difference between tanks back in the days too.

    You had 90% of the tanks that sucked, 8% that knew how to use their mitigation abilities properly ... and then the rare 2% that were also good at generating high threat. Majority of the people in TBC probably never got to see a 'master' tank in their lifetime, but as a top raidguild back then you clearly got to see the huge skillgaps between tanks. If your tank was really really good your raid could go full out on the DPS race. If he was mediocre (like 98% of the tanks in raidguilds were back then) you had your DPS often having to hold back and content also was much harder then...

    The game probably was much more skill-based back then too if I've to think of it, it's much easier to master your class nowadays. Most of these things that were part of the gameplay were considered as inconvenience and 'not fun' at a later point. Such as having to keep an eye on threat levels etc.
    As a druid tank in BC there were not that many migration skills to begin with... I still managed to tank the entire content, successful
    I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn, they will be gone - whispering their hidden song...

  6. #186
    Easier? No. Different? Yes.

    Heroic dungeons now are a complete joke. As soon as you're max level you que and you might spend an extra 5 mins in them. Back in BC there was a reason that LFG didn't exist. People were still using things like CC. Also you couldn't just be a fresh 70 and hope to get into heroic dungeons because you probably weren't able to put out the numbers you needed.

    Raids weren't extremely harder back in TBC, but like SoO there was a lot more put on individual performance so everyone had to be on the top of their game. There was no LFR hero type person back then.

  7. #187
    Herald of the Titans Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Honestly as someone in TBC I don't think that "individual responsibility" was a big part of TBC raiding.

    Kael Thas as a Fury Warrior

    Phase 1 - no threat of dying

    - Kite to P1 while ranged kill, no effort
    Kite to P2 use berserker rage against fear and kill
    Stay to the side while ranged kite to P3
    Kill engineer where he spawns.

    Phase 2

    AOE nuke weapon adds down within time frame, grab sword + dagger. risk of death from overagro but healable

    Phase 3

    Melee on fear boss dps race and then run to engineer, kite if you get focussed, ranged deal with others. No risk of death for me here.

    Phase 4 - dps race + interupts. dps 100k shield and interrupt pyro or tank dies on 2nd cast (legend shield absorbs 1).
    Move from 1 massive easy to see fire mechanic
    Don't attack MC people for risk of killing them, rogues deal with it using shiv.
    Don't dps the phoenix, tank will kite it until it kills itself. Nuke down the egg.

    Phase 5 - fly around, avoid healing debuff, interupt and dps.



    So basically my personal responsibility was limited. The fight was long and complex and required the raid to take care of a lot of things at once, but to be honest unlike MOP raiding there wasn't a great deal of things for me to worry about that were going to kill me. Yes the fight was very difficult and beating it was by todays standards comparable to heroic modes, but in terms of surviving the fight it was easy compared to MOP. In MOP you have things you constantly have to avoid in order to survive, it is less about these massive team efforts doing completely seperate tasks (because of shared 10/25 man) and more about individual avoid fire efforts.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2013-10-06 at 04:37 PM.
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  8. #188
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Raids are harder, everything else is easier.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidbozz View Post
    Let's see...

    Attunments....gone
    Requiring CC....gone
    Tanks worrying about threat....gone
    Resist gear....gone

    Just to name a few reasons why things are easier
    those things don't make the game harder, they just make it more time consuming.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I dunno.. I cant imagine a LFR group being able to down Kael or leotharis the blind
    Same can be said for Thok if they haven't nerfed his stacking buff in LFR.
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  11. #191
    Making things more time consuming doesn't make things easier. Getting resist sets wasn't harder. It was time consuming. Attunements weren't harder. They were time consuming.

    Heroic raiding today is the most complex and difficult raiding this game has ever seen. BC raiding is like an abacus in a world of modern computers.

  12. #192
    I can blood boil spam tank any heroic now
    I had to plan for every single pack in Heroic Shatter Halls

    Clearly no

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Windwalker View Post
    I can blood boil spam tank any heroic now
    I had to plan for every single pack in Heroic Shatter Halls

    Clearly no
    You're cherry picking.

  14. #194
    Classes have gotten much more balanced gameplay wise. Raids have become more complex mechanic wise but there are more tools available as opposed to BC. You have video guides, more addons, and more overall strategies plus ptr testing which helps guilds learn bosses before they're officially available.

  15. #195
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    As a tank back in the days i never ever worried about threat, except for healers maybe.
    As a Warlock in BC I had to soul shatter as much as possible to keep from going over tanks!

  16. #196
    @People complaining about hero dungeon
    the current heroic dungeon is challenge mode. Those are actually more damanding and fun as a group to play.
    Todays heroic dungeon is tbc normal mode.

    Some things however got undeniable easy, i.E. stancedance removal for warrior, playing war perfect was more challenging before.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    People have just gotten better, in a nutshell.
    I do enjoy the rants from people that have been playing for 7 years crying the game is too easy. Now some things are easier now then before that is bound to happen. Some of the PVE stuff the fights for the most part are way more complex and if we had a magical time machine to pull people out of BT and dump them in something like HoF they would have all quit because of the huge ramp up in things going on and over all complexity.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdie View Post
    those things don't make the game harder, they just make it more time consuming.
    Exactly.

    Things were only 'hard' in TBC if you didn't do them the 'correct' way.

    Speed run 5 mans without a Prot Paladin? Lololololol

    DPS Shaman/Warrior/Paladin in a 5 man? Lolololololol

    Not bringing loads of Resto Shaman to a raid? Lololololol

    It was all about preparation back then. Things are more streamlined now, with more viable options. But things have gotten exceedingly more difficult in other respects.

  19. #199
    Mechagnome Raidboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdie View Post
    those things don't make the game harder, they just make it more time consuming.
    Coordinating proper CC could be quite hard....Doing all the steps in attunments or finding people to help you was also quite hard when it came to getting into BT...warlock tanking illidan during demon phase required resist gear and throwing a dps into a tanking role was also hard...

  20. #200
    Heroic dungeons are way easier, and extremely boring. That's one of the places where they failed miserably this expansion. The raiding however is way harder, and everything else wasn't even hard to begin with; just more grindy.

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