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  1. #221
    Man if I played back then with my skillset now and real addons it would be a cakewalk.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    Paladin tanks weren't required anywhere, if they were it's because the rest of the group was bad not because paladins were the only viable tanks.



    And so he did, but then again the amount of gear that 1 guild get in the span of 1 week nowdays far exceeds than the amount of gear a guild would get back in TBC which made for slower progression, especially when bosses were gearchecks.
    Paladins were just about required for Hyjal Trash, as no other tanking class had good aoe tanking till the Wrath Patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I'm being trickled on from above. Wait that's not money.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    And so he did, but then again the amount of gear that 1 guild get in the span of 1 week nowdays far exceeds than the amount of gear a guild would get back in TBC which made for slower progression, especially when bosses were gearchecks.
    So then we are in agreement raiding in BC was harder than it is today...great!
    Last edited by Raidboss; 2013-10-06 at 06:08 PM.

  4. #224
    And once again we come back around to the same old argument.

    "Slower" and "more tedious" do not necessarily equate with "harder."
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  5. #225
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Sadly, the nostalgic don't want to accept that Lumineus.

    I also find it incredibly amusing how "former top raiders" or "back in the day i was an ace, brah" comments come from people that admittedly don't raid heroic these days or haven't since Wotlk, Cata, whatever. Yeah - really valuable empirical data isn't it. Comes right back to what I said pages ago - too many youtube raiders and hearsay town criers.

    Just play it for yourself, and stop jacking off to your own glory days.

  6. #226
    Legendary cloak is harder and takes more skill to get than atiesh in classic.

    Legendary cloak takes like 4 months of errands but any idiot can just kill bosses in naxx40 and usually finish his staff in less than 4 months.

  7. #227
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    It's the same as BC. You do 5 mans for badges that can get you gear on par or equal to the raids that you will be doing. Only in BC you also had another option of spamming AV, getting honor for an entire day, and just buying welfare Merciless gear and raiding like that, and still did as well as the next guy in full PvE gear. Content and mechanics wise, not really, they just add more stuff to avoid, and attempt to complicate things more than they should.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    Sadly, the nostalgic don't want to accept that Lumineus.

    I also find it incredibly amusing how "former top raiders" or "back in the day i was an ace, brah" comments come from people that admittedly don't raid heroic these days or haven't since Wotlk, Cata, whatever. Yeah - really valuable empirical data isn't it. Comes right back to what I said pages ago - too many youtube raiders and hearsay town criers.

    Just play it for yourself, and stop jacking off to your own glory days.
    Yeah, okay buddy. You try and get your bachelors while raising two children as a single parent. Let's see how much raid time you can get into the week when you have real life to deal with.

  9. #229
    Scarab Lord miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Yeah, okay buddy. You try and get your bachelors while raising two children as a single parent. Let's see how much raid time you can get into the week when you have real life to deal with.
    I was in no way critisizing people not playing or having real life. I was making the point that "former top raiders" deem themselves capable of offhandedly judging todays' content without playing it, sometimes without having raided in years. That is all.

  10. #230
    Deleted
    I like how implying TBC wasn't superior in every single tiny little aspect is enough to just blow some people's minds.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    I also find it incredibly amusing how "former top raiders" or "back in the day i was an ace, brah" comments come from people that admittedly don't raid heroic these days or haven't since Wotlk, Cata, whatever. Yeah - really valuable empirical data isn't it. Comes right back to what I said pages ago - too many youtube raiders and hearsay town criers.
    From what I see, the same reasoning applies to both parties.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    Only in BC you also had another option of spamming AV, getting honor for an entire day, and just buying welfare Merciless gear and raiding like that, and still did as well as the next guy in full PvE gear.
    Isn't it the same now? Now you can also AFK in Tol Barad.

  12. #232
    Fights more complex, more abilities, priority dps instead of pure memorized rotation... More players are better however, so any increase in "difficulty" is effectively moot for the most part.

    Looking at the question of whether or not the game itself is harder, if someone from BC played right now, yea they'd have a hard time.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    I was having a night of nostalgia and was stalking wow progress to see if any of the people I used to raid with daily still played.

    What impressed me is the world ranking we were getting back then compared to the ranking we get now.
    More specifically we were top1600 worldwide in TBC as opposed to top6000 now.

    The question that popped up immediately was did the game actually become harder after all these years? And that what I'd like to discuss.

    For your own agenda, what ranks did you get in TBC as opposed to nowadays?
    The game is not just the heroic raids.

    The 5-mans, both normal and heroic, are retardedly easy in MOP compared to tastefully challenging in TBC.

    In killing NPCs in the world, MOP also fails because there is no danger of death and it's all about faceroll aoe.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    TBC had a major issue - a lack of tanks.
    There wasn't a lack of tanks, just a lack of tanks that pugged

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    What does Void Reaver have to do with anything? First look on KT was on the day of Solarians death since KT was inaccessible before that time.
    Yes it took 2½ months to clear the entire instance I can give you that, but KT alone lasted for 1 month.
    Not to mention back then every tier came out at once.

    Back then people heading into T5 instances had just enough gear to beat T4.

    Now people heading into the new raid (normal/heroic raiders) have full gear from the previous tier and are probably nearly fully geared from it with item upgraded, reforged and gemmed gear.

    I guarantee if they held tier 5 off in TBC and released one raid at a time (remember most people worked on SSC and TK simultaneously) then most people would have downed bosses quicker because they'd be fully geared from the previous tier.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by gee View Post
    The game is not just the heroic raids.

    The 5-mans, both normal and heroic, are retardedly easy in MOP compared to tastefully challenging in TBC.

    In killing NPCs in the world, MOP also fails because there is no danger of death and it's all about faceroll aoe.
    They all had one shot mechanics at the start of the expansion but gear made them easier. The jinyu or w/e would one shot if they weren't interrupted.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by worsthitmanNa View Post
    They all had one shot mechanics at the start of the expansion but gear made them easier. The jinyu or w/e would one shot if they weren't interrupted.
    The rares were fairly challenging as well, not to mention accidentally pulling too many things at once with barely any gear at all.

    Hell, even some of the rares are still able to kill you if you don't pay attention.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by worsthitmanNa View Post
    They all had one shot mechanics at the start of the expansion but gear made them easier. The jinyu or w/e would one shot if they weren't interrupted.
    You kidding that gear made them easy? I would have actually gotten Glorius! long before 90 if three rares weren't phased in Valley of Eternal Blossom. In fact I killed most rares at 85 (including all of the available level 90 ones), for I was playing MoP 10 days trial couple of times.

    This is like people claming that WotLK and Cataclysm heroics were as difficult as TBC ones.
    Last edited by Memory; 2013-10-06 at 09:15 PM.

  19. #239
    I dont care about the reasons, could be bugs, over tuning of simple mechanics whatever, but game was very harder in Vanilla and tBC era. Seeing Lady Vashj, KT, Illidan, and clearing Sunwell was something required huge amount of work and dedication.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Not to mention back then every tier came out at once.

    Back then people heading into T5 instances had just enough gear to beat T4.

    Now people heading into the new raid (normal/heroic raiders) have full gear from the previous tier and are probably nearly fully geared from it with item upgraded, reforged and gemmed gear.

    I guarantee if they held tier 5 off in TBC and released one raid at a time (remember most people worked on SSC and TK simultaneously) then most people would have downed bosses quicker because they'd be fully geared from the previous tier.
    Yeah, but this is all adjustments that you have to account for, in evaluating (and comparing) difficulty level. The game was tuned around such availability - it was the difficulty that we experienced. It's not like MoP raids will become easy in present time, if one day Blizzard will introduce the I-win button: eh, MoP raids weren't difficult, it's just that they didn't have the I-win button!
    This is like some people who argumented that vanilla raids weren't difficult, it's just that you could not get hit capped and had lot of misses. That's like saying that vanilla raid weren't difficult, it's just that they didn't have haste rating or expertise.
    Wow, some people should learn the basics of logic before trying to compare two games.

    Besides, while I believe that BC system for releasing content had its serious drawbacks, yes, almost all of BC raiding content was out at once, and you would get as far as you were capable of and interested to. Most people didn't get very far, also after farming gear for two years. So it was hardly difficult just because people entered T5 without full T4 (in fact most guilds couldn't kill nerfed Kael / Vashj either with Zul'Aman gear, which was equivalent or better than T5).
    Last edited by Memory; 2013-10-06 at 09:18 PM.

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