So.... any reason why the top guild's hunter went for fervor?

[Conjor]

Pretty much this.

People need to stop worrying about 1% loss or gain on simcraft. We're FINALLY at a point where SV and BM are basically equal, and every talent has its uses. And unless you're in Paragon, Blood Legion or Method, that 1% is not going to affect you. Play the spec you want, with the talents you want for that specific boss.

Very equal indeed. /cry for no mention of MM.

@OP: Fervor is good if you need higher burst (say, in an AoE situation) then you can get with DB. DB is the best Single Target while Fervor / TotH plays out better in an AoE situation.

It is something that you as a player need to evaluate on a per fight basis. And even then it will come down to managing that tier of talents properly to maximize their usefulness for the fight.

[Deleted]

doing the best possible dps doesn't always mean doing the max possible DPS. Some people need to realize this

[Spiralphoenix]

Femaledwarf doesn't require ToTH nor Fervor to be put into the shot priority, and simcrafts default profiles include it in the action list with a conditional checking whether or not you're spec'd into it, so unless you're using a customized action list in simcraft and you left that out, I'm not sure how you'd mess that up.

[Deleted]

doing the best possible dps doesn't always mean doing the max possible DPS. Some people need to realize this

But in this discussion, best = max.

[Deleted]

But in this discussion, best = max.

No, in this discussion, best = most useful dps considering every boss, strategy and raid setup.

[Libertarian]

Very equal indeed. /cry for no mention of MM.

@OP: Fervor is good if you need higher burst (say, in an AoE situation) then you can get with DB. DB is the best Single Target while Fervor / TotH plays out better in an AoE situation.

It is something that you as a player need to evaluate on a per fight basis. And even then it will come down to managing that tier of talents properly to maximize their usefulness for the fight.

Sorry I haven't played MM so I didn't want to give false first hand experience.

People need to take from this that everything is so close together, it really comes down to a fight by fight basis as well as skill and usage. Did you use barrage while only 1 add was in range? Did you use murder of crows on something that will die quickly? There are so many other factors that affect dps, that min / maxing on the smallest gains through talents is pretty absurd unless you're in a top guild.

[Kissthebaby]

you need a heroic weapon for mm to shine

[Knyphyn]

On demand focus for beastcleave burst is nice.

[Woobels]

There's some reports about ToTH being overvalued in SimC.

Pottm (Method) was saying that he thinks SimC is reducing focus cost by 20, but also rewarding 20 focus which is obviously not the case.

I'm nowhere near good enough with sims to check this myself but it might be worth looking into.

[Glurp]

There's some reports about ToTH being overvalued in SimC.

Pottm (Method) was saying that he thinks SimC is reducing focus cost by 20, but also rewarding 20 focus which is obviously not the case.

I'm nowhere near good enough with sims to check this myself but it might be worth looking into.

TotH shows in Resource Gains with 20 focus gained. It could be giving free focus or it could just modeled in a way that it gives back 20 focus per use of Arcane Shot if TotH is active (-30 + 20 = 10), I don't know.

[Kennyloggins]

I took a quick look at the focus cost/gain breakdown, and total focus cost = total gain. Total focus cost is factoring in the reduction from Thrill, total focus gain is factoring in the 20 focus gain. I'm pretty sure that means what Pottm is saying is right. Unless it's wrong. Seems right, though.

[D R E A D E D]

IIRC Pottm did a significant amount more damage than him on that fight, and I've never seen Pottm using Fervor this tier.

- - - Updated - - -



I did not remember correctly, I just checked the video and Pottm was using the same talents, my bad.

Pottm is simply a better hunter.

[Spiralphoenix]

Briefly looking through the code seems to agree that this theory might be correct, but it has been a long day at work and I may be misreading. I will stress the "brief" look part. Here's some of the relevant code for those interested, with the red stuff being what I believe is most important...:

// Arcane Shot Attack =======================================================

struct arcane_shot_t : public hunter_ranged_attack_t
{
  arcane_shot_t( hunter_t* player, const std::string& options_str ) :
    hunter_ranged_attack_t( "arcane_shot", player, player -> find_class_spell( "Arcane Shot" ) )
  {
    parse_options( NULL, options_str );
  }

  virtual double cost()
  {
    return thrill_discount( hunter_ranged_attack_t::cost() );
  }

  virtual void execute()
  {
    hunter_ranged_attack_t::execute();
    consume_thrill_of_the_hunt();

    trigger_tier16_2pc_melee();
    if ( result_is_hit( execute_state -> result ) ) {
      trigger_tier15_4pc_melee( p() -> procs.tier15_4pc_melee_arcane_shot, p() -> action_lightning_arrow_arcane_shot );
    }
  }

  virtual void impact( action_state_t* state )
  {
    hunter_ranged_attack_t::impact( state );
    if ( result_is_hit( state -> result ) )
    {
      p() -> buffs.cobra_strikes -> trigger( 2 );

      // Needs testing
      p() -> buffs.tier13_4pc -> trigger();
    }
  }
};

// thrill_of_the_hunt support =============================================

  void trigger_thrill_of_the_hunt()
  {
    if ( p() -> talents.thrill_of_the_hunt -> ok() && cost() > 0 )
      // Stacks: 3 initial, 3 maximum
      if ( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> trigger( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> data().initial_stacks() ) )
        p() -> procs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> occur();
  }

  double thrill_discount( double cost )
  {
    double result = cost;

    if ( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> check() )
      result += p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> data().effectN( 1 ).base_value();

    return std::max(0.0, result);
  }

  void consume_thrill_of_the_hunt()
  {
    if ( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> up() )
    {
      double cost = hunter_action_t::cost();
      p() -> resource_gain( RESOURCE_FOCUS, cost, p() -> gains.thrill_of_the_hunt );
      p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> decrement();
    }
  }

virtual void execute()
  {
    ranged_attack_t::execute();

    if ( p() -> specs.steady_focus -> ok() )
      trigger_steady_focus();

    if ( p() -> buffs.pre_steady_focus -> stack() == 2 )
    {
      double haste_buff = p() -> buffs.steady_focus -> data().effectN( 1 ).percent();
      haste_buff += p() -> sets -> set( SET_T14_4PC_MELEE ) -> effectN( 3 ).percent();

      p() -> buffs.steady_focus -> trigger( 1, haste_buff );
      p() -> buffs.pre_steady_focus -> expire();
    }

    trigger_thrill_of_the_hunt();

    trigger_tier16_bm_4pc_melee();

    if ( result_is_hit( execute_state -> result ) )
      trigger_wild_quiver();
  }

[Deleted]

Pottm is simply a better hunter.

He is also not the raid leader of the #1 25m west guild in the world, and if you think that raid leading wont lower your dps then I don't know what to say.

[Rackfu]

He is also not the raid leader of the #1 25m west guild in the world, and if you think that raid leading wont lower your dps then I don't know what to say.

Can't agree more.

While I am no hunter superstar, I've noticed my dps suffers when I am leading my raid as opposed to when I hop in a Flex/LFR being run by someone else.

Having to watch out for everyone in the raid and what is happening is a distraction.

[Nemesiz]

___ S __

Having to watch out for everyone in the raid and what is happening is a distraction.

Though one has to be careful not to watch too much over each and every player. The more you look after other players, the more you die / fail / stand in stuff yourself. Though a hunter do seem to be an excellent class for RL'ing due to the great overview and very few restrictions.

[eschatological]

Though one has to be careful not to watch too much over each and every player. The more you look after other players, the more you die / fail / stand in stuff yourself. Though a hunter do seem to be an excellent class for RL'ing due to the great overview and very few restrictions.

This tends to be my issue. I've always been in charge of ranged/healers in terms of positioning (our raidleader is melee), so I'm constantly adjusting position (mainly mine, since hunters are so mobile) to make sure nothing is going horrible.

But I get secret pleasure from the fact that our priests/druids all do their AoE healing off me, since I'm always where I should be. So it's okay.

[Perrito]

Though one has to be careful not to watch too much over each and every player. The more you look after other players, the more you die / fail / stand in stuff yourself. Though a hunter do seem to be an excellent class for RL'ing due to the great overview and very few restrictions.

a gcd caped class isnt the best for it, tanks are usually the best classes because you get room to look around and dont have to usually press a button every gcd and manage resources, a range class seem fitting to the job.

[Danshot]

I downloaded the latest simcraft. How do I see what talents it recommends and stat weights it says?

[Glurp]

I downloaded the latest simcraft. How do I see what talents it recommends and stat weights it says?

It doesn't recommend talents.

To see stat weights go into Scaling and tick the boxes of the stats you want to analyze.