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  1. #41
    Great idea for an expansion. Every boss killed thus far as an undead raid boss with Hogger as the primary villain.

  2. #42
    To all the people who don't already know, he is coming back. From metzen at blizzcon (twice I think), warlock green fire questline we got more info on Illidan (all that magic/well esque stuff in BT, Illidan's demons are still around and when mentioned Illidan was gone (supposedly) all he does is shrug, etc.) from the character bio where he's classified as a demon, from the recent metzen tweet where he said WoE wasn't it and he/a part of him is still out there somewhere. With the BL eventually coming, along with Alleria and Turalyon next expac, it makes sense. Not to mention the multiple times the game has hinted at DHs, the ghost in Darkshore, the blasted lands one coming back, the one in felwood saying we misunderstood Illidan and he wasn't as bad as we first thought, etc.

    Sorry, but many have and do want him back, he is coming back. Besides, I wonder if Wrathion would go to him if he knew where he was, as he'd be a great help to fight the legion when they come soon.

  3. #43
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    I'll grant you that 'complexity' was a poor choice of words, for the BC is not complex in the same way as, say... I don't know, whatever complex story you may be familiar with and that wasn't written by some nerds copying Warhammer and D&D. But yes, I liked that Illidan was not the master mind behind every single leaf that moved in Outland.
    And yes, he was just standing in Black Temple like everyone else was just standing: we didn't have phasing, and a lot of quests were more like 'kill 10 tigers, now kill 10 bigger tigers, now kill 10 huge tigers, now kill the queen of 'em all tigers'. Exactly, a different concept of game.
    And I agree that WoW progressed a lot on this regard, but as such I don't mind that BC didn't focus as much on Illidan as WotLK on Arthas. Besides, the title itself wasn't about Illidan: The Burning Crusade. For the rest, for we had to kill so many different sizes of tigers, it was indeed a different concept, and we had better quest lines in WotLK (although I admit I don't like the opposite exaggeration either, I like WoW to be a bit 'open-world' as well).

    I was aware that those references were ambiguous, but look, I didn't wanna bring them up because of game mechanics, although I mentioned the low difficulty level of Naxx. I only intended to refer to the narrative aspect of the issue. As a matter of fact, the Lich King was kept as the main focus through: a recycled Naxxramas (I may say a recycled tier of raids, as much as I liked both Sartharion 3D and Malygos); a poor content patch with a daily quest hub that you may like or not (I didn't), and with a raid dungeon that is regarded as possibly the worse in the history of WoW, not just because of the fight mechanics; a one-year long ICC release that bore people to death). All of the above are issues concerned with storytelling, not with game mechanics. Significantly, however, the best dungeon of WotLK (perhaps among the best ones of WoW), Ulduar, was the only one slightly unconcerned with the Lich King (aside from one-boss raid dungeons).

    So, in the end, I don't mind that Illidan was reclusive: 1. it's fine with him being not the sole focus of the expansion; 2. I don't consider WotLK storytelling appealing as a concept nor successful in the outcomes.
    The thing is, You go kill someone who might not have needed to die at all. Throughout the entire expansion, you know very well that Illidan is is not the end all boss from the moment you set foot through the dark portal and are met by the legion. All you find is, hey he is creating fel orcs to combat demons, but oh no, we cannot have more "Grey line" creatures that could be good or evil. Kill them all! Oh, he "apparently" sent a legion of blood elves to attack Shattrath City, which was never proven came from him, rather seems more like Kael'Thalas as was with the Legion at this point and wanted to get rid of the Naaru and the Draenai. Oh, he yells down from the top of BT telling you he is basically not in charge of anything, because he is apparently coo coo for coco puffs. And, he apparently enslaved the broken, which I highly doubt, as they were all following Akama's command, and Akama is the one who became dark and twisted during this time, even having this take form as a boss.

    Basically, from what I can see from the burning crusade expansion, you go to outlands to kick a mentally handicap kid off his bike, kill him, and take his bike because he was not completely there, even though all his advisers, besides vashj and akama, both of whom do their own things the entire time, working with the burning legion, and as handicapped as he is, he is still trying to keep out the legion. Did i miss something about the expansion?

  4. #44
    No, please no.
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    azshara whispers: if you're nice to me, I might let you bang me.

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    Basically, from what I can see from the burning crusade expansion, you go to outlands to kick a mentally handicap kid off his bike, kill him, and take his bike because he was not completely there, even though all his advisers, besides vashj and akama, both of whom do their own things the entire time, working with the burning legion, and as handicapped as he is, he is still trying to keep out the legion. Did i miss something about the expansion?
    Isn't it the same as wars do work in the real world?
    But yes, I don't have an objection against each one of your points nor the previous poster's. I agree that the BC approach was far from perfect.
    Take it as an invitation to also consider the points of view that I raised.

  6. #46
    I hope not.

  7. #47
    The problem with Illidan's story being terrible in TBC is more of the problem with older WoW's storytelling in general. Back in the day in game storytelling was terrible. There was hardly any story. MoP is simply the best. Even the stories about farmers in Valley of the Four Winds are more engaging than most stories in old WoW.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2013-10-06 at 04:20 PM.

  8. #48
    Personally, i dont care if they bring him back or not.
    Both reasons are legitimate, Blizzard could have made a great storyline about him in BC, but they squandered the moment.
    But its Blizzard we are talking about, they change lore all the time to fit their current agenda, so i think theres a bigger chance Illidan will be back then him staying dead.

  9. #49
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    Isn't it the same as wars do work in the real world?
    But yes, I don't have an objection against each one of your points nor the previous poster's. I agree that the BC approach was far from perfect.
    Take it as an invitation to also consider the points of view that I raised.
    But that is the thing. most of the quests in outland, besides a select few even raise questions and lore as to Reason to actually go kill Illidan. The justification that blizzard gives us is "Oh, he is Insane!!!!!" when he is not. After being slashed by Frostmourne, he did go a little coo coo, but it is very clear he is not the cause of the problems in outland at all. Rather, he made life there probably better, till Kael'thalas went all darkside and the legion showing up, on top of Vashj being "Yay, I keepz the water for myselfz!!!"

    I liked that he did not show up much at all in the expansion. I liked the Fel Orc lore that was created. But, the justification of going and killing Illidan was not there at all. Rather, it seemed all he needed was a 1 on 1 talk with Tyrande and the realization that person he saved and helped and thought was his friend, Kael'thalas stabbed him in the back for "Unlimited PowAAA!!!" and was the cause of all the problems in outland. Nope. Kill Illidan. why? just because.

    I like the reclusive villain, but Illidan was no such thing. All the evils of outland can easily be pointed at Kael'Thalas. Illidan simply just lost a few of his marbles thanks to Frostmourne, which is why Altruis left him. If they wanted to make him the insane reclusive villain, there should have been quests to show this, not phasing or random appearance but simply talk of it, not he said, she said bs, when its pretty clear it was not him or if it was, it was so far out of character that you are actually surprised he is standing on two feet from how utterly mentally handicapped and insane he is.
    Last edited by Skayth; 2013-10-06 at 04:34 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    Arthas is dead, Illidan... probably not. Would actually be cool if Kael'thas came too I miss him
    I think everyone is fine with Arthas being dead because the build up to his death was done so much better than, 'Oh hey that's illidan on this roof.' 5 min later he's dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuniorBinda View Post
    As in resurrected right? since there are plenty of warcraft characters that came back after hiding in the wilds or setting back.
    These are all listed on the Major Character page of WoWpedia:
    Vincent Godfrey
    Sylvanas Windrunner
    Dranosh Saurfang
    Kel'thuzad
    Medivh
    Ner'zhul
    Nefarian
    Onyxia
    Cenarius

    One could count in other such as Kael'thas and Teron Gorefiend..
    Ok, fair play Sir, fair play:P
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    I think everyone is fine with Arthas being dead because the build up to his death was done so much better than, 'Oh hey that's illidan on this roof.' 5 min later he's dead.
    WotLK was epic storytelling? You people have got to be kidding. It ended with, quite possibly, the most terrible, illogical nonsense ever put in a video game. It absolutely killed the entire expansion. You have a god-like, super-intelligent being in charge of a bunch of ravenous, mindless undead. He plots strategy and launches coordinated invasions that are stopped dead in their tracks by the opposing forces. Now, without sounding like a complete douche bag, explain to me how those mindless creatures are MORE dangerous WITHOUT him. It's complete garbage. A cop-out of epic proportions.

    In the end, a financial decision won over good storytelling. Don't worry about Illidan. Worry about Wrath of the Lich King: Return of the Lich King's Wrath.
    Last edited by tiporispit; 2013-10-06 at 04:51 PM.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiporispit View Post
    WotLK was epic storytelling? You people have got to be kidding. It ended with, quite possibly, the most terrible, illogical nonsense ever put in a story-line. It absolutely killed the entire expansion. You have a god-like, super-intelligent being in charge of a bunch of ravenous, mindless undead. He plots strategy and launches coordinated invasions that are stopped dead in their tracks by the opposing forces. Now, without sounding like a complete douche bag, explain to me how those mindless creatures are MORE dangerous WITHOUT him. It's complete garbage. A cop-out of epic proportions.
    Because a mindless horde sweeping it's way across the planet with no restraints at all is far worse than it being what was essentially a somewhat organised army? Not difficult to understand lol

    Sometimes updated...

  14. #54
    World of Warcraft: You Still Aren't Prepared

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokaproductionist View Post
    Illidan is dead and should stay dead.
    Illidan didn't get a very interesting death... there wasn't much of a storyline built up around him in the Burning Crusade, he was the evil guy, and that's it. At least Kael'thas and the LK got some development and rewarding deaths.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


  16. #56
    Bloodsail Admiral Teebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    We could do zombie Illidan expansion. You know zombie Black Temple ,Kael ressurected (again), zombie SSC. And since we are bringning up awesome expansion ideas , what about a crossover between Dora the explorer and the Warcraft universe?
    "I'm the backpack!"

    "You are not prepared!"

    "But... I'm the Backpack!"

    "Frostmourne Hungers..."

    "I'm the Backpack! Here, I brought a lunch!"

    "All shall burn.. beneath the shadow of my wings!"

    "I'm the Backpack! I'm Fire Retardent!"

    Nerf Backpacks.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Illidan didn't get a very interesting death... there wasn't much of a storyline built up around him in the Burning Crusade, he was the evil guy, and that's it. At least Kael'thas and the LK got some development and rewarding deaths.
    Illidan was like Garrosh of TBC, Garrosh got just about as much attention as Illidan got pre their patch. Only difference is that MoP had more detail to it.

  18. #58
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    Illidan didn't get a very interesting death... there wasn't much of a storyline built up around him in the Burning Crusade, he was the evil guy, and that's it. At least Kael'thas and the LK got some development and rewarding deaths.
    Most (= all) of Illidan's story was developed before WoW. Blizzard essentially expected players to have been fairly familiar with WC3 when playing TBC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansvar View Post
    Illidan was like Garrosh of TBC, Garrosh got just about as much attention as Illidan got pre their patch. Only difference is that MoP had more detail to it.
    Garrosh's story has been built from at least TBC, really.

    Sometimes updated...

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansvar View Post
    Illidan was like Garrosh of TBC, Garrosh got just about as much attention as Illidan got pre their patch. Only difference is that MoP had more detail to it.
    Not even close. Garrosh's story has been told throught out the entire xpac.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by igoraw View Post
    "At the Blizzcon 2011 World of Warcraft Open Q&A panel, Metzen was again asked about reviving Illidan. He asked the crowd if it was something they would like to see, the crowd exploded and cheered in response, and he said they would work on it. He later revisited the topic during the World of Warcraft Lore Q&A panel, after being asked about the dead bodies of important villains. Metzen indicated that based on fan reaction they would most likely bring Illidan back, and would have to decide on a way to revive him, noting that his corpse would be very significant."
    Well, later that year he did help us in WoE.

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