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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Vildmage View Post
    Hi Akraen,

    Thanks for your guide I have used it as guidelines for a while now, but there is still one thing i cant quite figure out about the haste breakpoints and bombs.
    The way i understand it is, if you reach 12684 haste or above until 18960 you use NT, since it gives more ticks, which means there is no point in using LB, even on single target?
    I am not sure this is right, but it is what i understand from your guide, please tell me if im wrong.
    I have been testing the two bombs out on a dummie, and NT does around 260k dmg for 1 duration (without any procs) and LB does around 350k.
    Im confused since LB still seems to still do more dmg on single target?

    What I understood, is that only at or near the 15832 breakpoint is NT "close enough" to consider replacing LB. Also whilst marveling at Akraen's Malorak log for which he posted a link recently, i notice that he also used LB at 17768 Haste…perhaps because again LB is taking the lead as it's approaching it's next breakpoint (or he was playing).

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever use mage armor. Ever. It gives a flat 3k rating, whereas haste is giving a 7% multiplicative bonus.

    You would be better off reforging to mastery, or gemming mastery, before switching to mage armor.

    Since you have Black Blood, and if you would prefer to use that but feel as though you'd like more mastery, then can gem for it instead. Your gear isn't too far off from what I was wearing in normal modes, and I just kept stacking haste. At one point I was over 20k and I enjoyed it. Now with some heroic pieces I'm down to just above you actually and while my single target is higher, I was multidotting better when I was in normal gear :P

    I really want everyone to realize that just because your frostbolt dips below GCD doesn't mean haste is suddenly bad. That's what I prove in this guide. You spend more time outside burst haste scenarios than you do within them, especially with icy veins glyphed. It might feel weird, but that's only for a small portion of the fight. For the rest of the fight it's quite nice having such rapid casts. As you increase your ilvl and mastery + haste increases, you're generating icicles fast, bombs are ticking fast, and everything is just glorious.

    Here's me running w/17678 haste & 12291 mastery. Our first Heroic Malkorok kill: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pi...?s=1079&e=1393
    Your icicle damage is very high compared to mine, anything I can do to increase this damage? My ice lance damage is very high, which can be attributed to luck and the glyph hitting the add aswell; although my icicle damage since swapping to haste has never been my top damage

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2448&e=2779

    What should i change to get this right?

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Bedacles View Post
    What I understood, is that only at or near the 15832 breakpoint is NT "close enough" to consider replacing LB. Also whilst marveling at Akraen's Malorak log for which he posted a link recently, i notice that he also used LB at 17768 Haste…perhaps because again LB is taking the lead as it's approaching it's next breakpoint (or he was playing).
    LB > NT on single target. The only gain you'll get from using NT is more BF procs (and more overwrites) but the proc rates have been normalized between NT and LB anyways. After 18960 haste, LB will beat NT regardless of procs on single target. Malkorok = ST. Even on Heroic the add shouldn't survive long enough so I would still choose LB.

  4. #224
    at 50% haste (gcd cap dont want to go higher)

    bis is mastery-crit or mastery-hit ?

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    LB > NT on single target. The only gain you'll get from using NT is more BF procs (and more overwrites) but the proc rates have been normalized between NT and LB anyways. After 18960 haste, LB will beat NT regardless of procs on single target. Malkorok = ST. Even on Heroic the add shouldn't survive long enough so I would still choose LB.
    Then i dont understand what all the fuss about reaching haste breakpoints is all about? Since they really only matter for NT?

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    at 50% haste (gcd cap dont want to go higher)

    bis is mastery-crit or mastery-hit ?
    nothing stopping you going for more haste, but mastery is the next go to stat

  7. #227
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    I recently moved from VA to SC. I had Cox in VA with a 28-32ms ping. On Time Warner here in SC I have a 68-115ms ping.

    I swear on all that is stupid in the world, in VA Nether Tempest was higher single target for me, and in SC Living Bomb is higher.

    I lost less BF procs.

    That's how ridiculously fast paced a high-haste build is. Basically at high haste values both are so close, LB does more damage, but NT gets a few more procs. You'll lose more with NT, though-- only way for it to ever pull ahead is lightning reflexes and a good ping (or high movement encounters b/c you're not mid-cast of frostbolt, which you should never cancel cast).

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Vildmage View Post
    Then i dont understand what all the fuss about reaching haste breakpoints is all about? Since they really only matter for NT?
    getting to the 12k+ haste breakpoint in the hybrid build is for NT on add fights/aoe. You still use LB for single target in that build.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Vildmage View Post
    Then i dont understand what all the fuss about reaching haste breakpoints is all about? Since they really only matter for NT?
    You won't be saying that at the 18.9k haste breakpoint for Living Bomb, its so strong, crazy strong.

  10. #230

    Dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever use mage armor. Ever. It gives a flat 3k rating, whereas haste is giving a 7% multiplicative bonus.

    You would be better off reforging to mastery, or gemming mastery, before switching to mage armor.

    Since you have Black Blood, and if you would prefer to use that but feel as though you'd like more mastery, then can gem for it instead. Your gear isn't too far off from what I was wearing in normal modes, and I just kept stacking haste. At one point I was over 20k and I enjoyed it. Now with some heroic pieces I'm down to just above you actually and while my single target is higher, I was multidotting better when I was in normal gear :P

    I really want everyone to realize that just because your frostbolt dips below GCD doesn't mean haste is suddenly bad. That's what I prove in this guide. You spend more time outside burst haste scenarios than you do within them, especially with icy veins glyphed. It might feel weird, but that's only for a small portion of the fight. For the rest of the fight it's quite nice having such rapid casts. As you increase your ilvl and mastery + haste increases, you're generating icicles fast, bombs are ticking fast, and everything is just glorious.

    Here's me running w/17678 haste & 12291 mastery. Our first Heroic Malkorok kill:
    That parse of yours has me dumbfounded. You have only 4 more ilvls than me plus KTT, but you did 67k more DPS on your H Malkorok kill than I did on mine tonight. (Sorry for the lack of a parse link; it's my first post and the forums won't let me post links yet. If you care to look up my parse, my toon's name is Verraine in the guild Reminisence on Icecrown.)

    The main difference as far as I can tell is that I have 12701 haste and 16129 mastery, but since it's a single target fight wouldn't that make a more focused mastery build like mine more advantageous? If I reforge/regem to get up to 15832 haste would I see that big of a DPS improvement?

  11. #231
    You had dismal trinket uptime on BBoY (I personally think it's junk because of the lower RPPM rate, but whatever), used ice barrier 12 times, and are in a 10-man where DPS is typically lower. I also can't find pot usage in your log, and you slowfalled yourself out of seismic slam, presumably early, resulting in you being unable to cast anything but instants while on the way down.

  12. #232

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Xexyz View Post
    That parse of yours has me dumbfounded. You have only 4 more ilvls than me plus KTT, but you did 67k more DPS on your H Malkorok kill than I did on mine tonight. (Sorry for the lack of a parse link; it's my first post and the forums won't let me post links yet. If you care to look up my parse, my toon's name is Verraine in the guild Reminisence on Icecrown.)

    The main difference as far as I can tell is that I have 12701 haste and 16129 mastery, but since it's a single target fight wouldn't that make a more focused mastery build like mine more advantageous? If I reforge/regem to get up to 15832 haste would I see that big of a DPS improvement?
    I am in the 10-man bracket with you, I did 340k dps on Malkorok with ilvl 561 (think Akraen is 572ish~). Don't underestimate the value of haste, my top damage on that fight is living bomb and its because I hit the 19k haste break point for it and snapshot it with BBoY at 10 stacks as much as I could. I really badly want KTT, I don't think i'll be grabbing any more haste now, gonna focus on mastery on gear and drop the crit.

    I would only reforge to haste if you can hit the living bomb breakpoint, honestly just making sure your always casting to gain icicle procs and having good uptime on your bombs will be enough.

  14. #234
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    My top is icicles, I wasn't padding on the adds. I didn't really even multidot. I could've had higher DPS but my goal was Malkorok damage.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pi...1393&target=38

    Haste builds churn out amazing results with icicles because of the quantity of them. Choosing haste build doesn't mean you ignore icicle generation. Just means you're favoring bomb DPET increases and snapshots relative to the generators.

    Always remember your ABCs.

  15. #235
    So I have a noob question: how exactly does haste interact with LB and NT when it's increasing but not reaching a breakpoint? Because I just reforged/regemmed from 12701 haste to 15850 haste in order to hit the NT breakpoint, but does the increased haste benefit LB even though it's still not high enough to reach the next breakpoint?

    Edit: Nevermind I just figured it out, lol. It is a bit confusing though; how much time is added to LB whenever another breakpoint is reached?
    Last edited by Xexyz; 2013-11-08 at 11:49 PM.

  16. #236
    hey akraen, I just got a HWF FCoR this week, and was wondering if you had some sort of list for exactly what fights it should be used on. the only one im 100% certain about is galakras. I have considered using it on immerseus, spoils, and normal (heroic too?) garrosh. I raid in a 25 man guild, if that matters at all
    Last edited by iceyflare; 2013-11-09 at 05:18 PM.

  17. #237
    How important is the T16 4 piece for frost (all normal pieces)? I know for frost it's probably the least important. I just got the heroic legs off of Iron Juggernaut tonight (non warforged) and am wondering if it is worth dropping my tier legs for. Haste and Mastery is really sexy.

  18. #238
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cute View Post
    How important is the T16 4 piece for frost (all normal pieces)? I know for frost it's probably the least important. I just got the heroic legs off of Iron Juggernaut tonight (non warforged) and am wondering if it is worth dropping my tier legs for. Haste and Mastery is really sexy.
    2-3% assuming lots of haste. It's very weak, if you have a 2nd strong off-piece with haste/mastery on it, then go for it.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Cute View Post
    How important is the T16 4 piece for frost (all normal pieces)? I know for frost it's probably the least important. I just got the heroic legs off of Iron Juggernaut tonight (non warforged) and am wondering if it is worth dropping my tier legs for. Haste and Mastery is really sexy.
    Boulder was about 1% of my dmg when I was shooting the dummy in arcane gems/reforge.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #240
    So is it probably not worth dropping my 4 PC until I get another heroic off piece (hopefully fallen protectors chest)?

    Oh and my Armory in case it matters: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ra/Cute/simple

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