[Frost]Akraen's Comprehensive Guide to 5.4 Frost(Advanced)V.2

[Bedacles]

Montillo,

Did you read the guide on the first page or any of the forum? All of the information we have which you are requesting is here.

[Sharkeey]

So the shadow priest I raid with rolled a H wf'd bindings last night. Please take a moment and share my grief with me please

- - - Updated - - -

Also akraen I'd love to sit down and pick your brain a bit and bounce some ideas off you. If you check heroic 10 rankings I usually rank every heroic kill so the experience will be enjoyable I promise! Maybe just an lfr or HS or even just some whispers back in forth would be awesome.

[Montilio]

Yes i try to read.. but i do not understand all of them. maybe my english is not good enough.

Ok thanks anyway.. i will read it a few times again, hopefully i will understand all i need to know..

[Coldvibes]

Something that confuses me with the guide is that the charts at the very beginning with breakpoints don't show Metagem without IV glyphed or Meta+Hero without IV glyphed. Since this thread is constantly updating and the 2pc bug with glyphed IV was fixed, we're always using IV Glyph regardless now right? So isn't the data of breakpoint lists without the IV glyph sort of... pointless?

[Deleted]

10 chars!!!

[Tomey]

Something that confuses me with the guide is that the charts at the very beginning with breakpoints don't show Metagem without IV glyphed or Meta+Hero without IV glyphed. Since this thread is constantly updating and the 2pc bug with glyphed IV was fixed, we're always using IV Glyph regardless now right? So isn't the data of breakpoint lists without the IV glyph sort of... pointless?

That's because it is assumed if you have the meta gem, you definitely have enough haste rating that you will not be running unglyphed IV, because it would turn into a DPS loss. Why post an entire spreadsheet with those breakpoints when they are not to be considered for raiding based upon the situation given due to the haste GCD.

TLDR: If you have the meta gem, the breakpoints without IV glyphed are stupid and not worth looking at hitting.

Note: this is an advanced frost guide, so it is assumed you have far and away enough haste to glyph IV. If you don't, you probably shouldn't be reading this guide or attempting these gearing strategies.

[Coldvibes]

That's because it is assumed if you have the meta gem, you definitely have enough haste rating that you will not be running unglyphed IV, because it would turn into a DPS loss. Why post an entire spreadsheet with those breakpoints when they are not to be considered for raiding based upon the situation given due to the haste GCD.

TLDR: If you have the meta gem, the breakpoints without IV glyphed are stupid and not worth looking at hitting.

Note: this is an advanced frost guide, so it is assumed you have far and away enough haste to glyph IV. If you don't, you probably shouldn't be reading this guide or attempting these gearing strategies.

5) Since the bug fix for 5.4 Glyph of Icy Veins, it is now used in each build. Feel free to unglyph for experimentation sake, though.


From the guide itself, listed in the Haste build section. Why do you have to be so rude about it?

[Akraen]

Yeah I need to do the combo w/o IV glyph and throw those points up there. It's good know all sets of data, because things sometimes change.

[Deleted]

Very good and interesting guide. I still don't understand why this isn't stickied as the other Frost guide has a totally different topic.

One thing got me confused though:

Now, answer the above questions knowing that frozen orb is for AoE, and you want to spend GCDs before pull if they don't snapshot. Mirror images snapshot. Frozen orb damage is determined at the time of successful cast, not explosion. Therefore, make sure IV and your pre-pot are hit before hitting these spells.

Mirror Images (and Frozen Orb too, did you mean Frost Bomb here?) update dynamically , so there's no need to "snapshot" Images. This can easily be observed when casting them pre-pull and seeing their damage and cast time increase with trinket procs and meta/timewarp. I think this would also change your suggested opening sequence a bit.

[Deleted]

Dear Akraen, wonderful guide. Thanks!

I have been doing a lot of theory crafting on my mage since I saw that other mages with worse gear levels than me were creating more dps.

Initially I was just stacking haste using the nominal values in AMR, but since reading your guide lots, I tried both a build capping my haste at 12138 (Goblin) which is the most haste I can gather without reaching a higher cap. This I have read equates to a +6 tick of Nether Tempest. I even checked the values of haste with the PBoI to make sure I wasn't near to an achievable cap there either. Here is my log that day for Garrosh: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z8fiwjm13bp7oma9/

Then yesterday again on Garrosh flex I tried to re-gem for a mastery build, capping my haste at 9007 (Goblin) for living bomb. I figured if I had a skill problem, that doing this should make my dps less based on RNG and more "steadily higher". Sadly I've had bad results. worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-b40rl28ece99b9fa/details/15/

Obviously I realise with Garrosh the haste/int spec is going to do more damage aoe compared to the single target oriented mastery build. But my guild is already focussing too much on aoe damage and we need the extra single target damage for the last couple of stages so i thought i could help with living bomb.

Generally my results were disappointing, often I only reach 220k single target I feel I should be doing more dps than I am, being around 565i, so what's the problem?

Aoe wise I'm equally is bad, often with rogues/hunters/dks/locks beating me with lesser gear.

Is this a skill issue or gear choices?

Heres my AMR: askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/draenor/coldcash

[Akraen]

Hey there Coldcash, good name for a frost mage lol.

I'm only going to look at your parse w/12138 haste because I think it would be a mistake for you at ilvl 565 to attempt to go down to 9007 haste. Use being a goblin to your advantage, not detriment.

You are in a situation as far as gear where I normally don't recommend, but in your case it makes sense to do so: change your gems:
Weapon -> Lightning Wild Jade
Shoulders -> 2x Wicked Vermillion Onyx & Reforge Crit->Hit
Cloak -> Reckless Vermillion Onyx
Chest -> 3x Wicked Vermillion Onyx
Bracers -> Reforge Hit->Haste
Gloves -> 2x Wicked Vermillion Onyx & Reforge Crit->Mastery
Belt -> 2x Wicked Vermillion Onyx + Quick Sun's Radiance
Legs -> 2x Quick Sun's Radiance
Boots -> Lightning Wild Jade & Reforge Crit->Hit
Dinomancer Ring -> Reckless Vermillion Onyx

Doing all this puts you at: 24753 (+80) intellect; 13428 (-2075) mastery; 6197 (-281) crit, and 12160 (+2445) haste. You will come out ahead with this setup, I promise.

As to your playstyle, Thok is good to see how well you make decisions when having to move as frost, because you can stage it to never get fixated but can plan for your movement around procs. The more skilled you are the more like a patchwerk fight this is, especially on heroic. The lower your haste, the most costly a wasted GCD is on IB. This is why I don't ever recommend that talent because you can just use TS which is better anyway.

You used your cooldowns correctly. Your Invoker's Energy was 97%+. I didn't see Toxic Power proc for you, did you not have the trinket at the time? That's significant, too.

I see on your first alter time you missed your PBoI, then on your second AT you only captured Icy Veins. I don't see a second potion used, which can be bundled with your 2nd or 3rd Alter Time. On your third AT, you only captured Jade Spirit & Icy Veins.

So basically, the biggest contributor to your lower than expected DPS is by not capturing buffs with AT. Adjust your gems and watch for your buffs, and you'll be golden with your uptimes.

Your bomb time is 97%+, but you use Ice Barrier 6 times. That's 6 lost GCDs which could have been used snapshotting or beginning another cast.

[ZwaY]

I've started heroic bosses for the first time today (yay!!) in a 25m setting, but I feel like my DPS is lacking and I was hoping for some advice to lift my DPS, I'm not too good with logs and Im trying to find some glaring mistakes that I can work on, died a few times since the mechanics are new to me but that can be fixed so I was hoping for some rotation advice

Our log for the night: worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-52w6b8jhdv2u16pg/

I've been rolling with a 15832 haste breakpoint, would it be worth bringing that number down for more mastery? Im lacking tier bonuses and amp trinket but hopefully that will change.

Seems I can't post links yet...

EDIT: too tired, might help to mention which mage I am. I am Chillberry in these logs

[Deleted]

So, I have a question. I am leaning towards going for the mixture build with the NT 18 tick breakpoint (12684). The one thing that is confusing me is which bomb to use on single target. Living Bomb appears to be the strongest one for single target DPS but not going for NT makes going for the 12684 breakpoint a waste, no?

Sorry for beeing a scrub at reading and comprehending information from charts :/ and thanks in advance to anyone that can clear this up for me.

[Keiyra]

So, I have a question. I am leaning towards going for the mixture build with the NT 18 tick breakpoint (12684). The one thing that is confusing me is which bomb to use on single target. Living Bomb appears to be the strongest one for single target DPS but not going for NT makes going for the 12684 breakpoint a waste, no?

IIRC, using the mixture build, you still use LB on single target. No that does not make the haste getting to 12684 a waste. It is still useful for speeding up your FrostBolt cast times and shortening the GCD on ur instants; in addition that haste then shines when you swap to NT for multidot fights.

That's sort of the point of the mixture build; to bet better at multi dot/aoe than the pure mastery build is, without sacrificing much single target dps to get there. (without going all haste which while very good as well, can be too frenetic a play style for some people, especially if you have higher than average latency) Its the middle road.

[Fahrenheit451]

I've started heroic bosses for the first time today (yay!!) in a 25m setting, but I feel like my DPS is lacking and I was hoping for some advice to lift my DPS, I'm not too good with logs and Im trying to find some glaring mistakes that I can work on, died a few times since the mechanics are new to me but that can be fixed so I was hoping for some rotation advice

Our log for the night: worldoflogs. com/reports/rt-52w6b8jhdv2u16pg/

I've been rolling with a 15832 haste breakpoint, would it be worth bringing that number down for more mastery? Im lacking tier bonuses and amp trinket but hopefully that will change.

Seems I can't post links yet...

For starters...which mage are you?

IIRC, using the mixture build, you still use LB on single target. *SNIP* That's sort of the point of the mixture build; to bet better at multi dot/aoe than the pure mastery build is, without sacrificing much single target dps to get there.

Exactly.

[Deleted]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1573&e=1853

Just thought i should share this with you fellow frost mages, and i can say that they are 100% competitive for sure, 3rd week as frost mage, so wouldbt be suprised if i can change my gear or anything to do even more

[Deleted]

Hey there Coldcash, good name for a frost mage lol.

I'm only going to look at your parse w/12138 haste because I think it would be a mistake for you at ilvl 565 to attempt to go down to 9007 haste. Use being a goblin to your advantage, not detriment.

You are in a situation as far as gear where I normally don't recommend, but in your case it makes sense to do so: change your gems:
Weapon -> Lightning Wild Jade
Shoulders -> 2x Wicked Vermillion Onyx & Reforge Crit->Hit
Cloak -> Reckless Vermillion Onyx
Chest -> 3x Wicked Vermillion Onyx
Bracers -> Reforge Hit->Haste
Gloves -> 2x Wicked Vermillion Onyx & Reforge Crit->Mastery
Belt -> 2x Wicked Vermillion Onyx + Quick Sun's Radiance
Legs -> 2x Quick Sun's Radiance
Boots -> Lightning Wild Jade & Reforge Crit->Hit
Dinomancer Ring -> Reckless Vermillion Onyx

Doing all this puts you at: 24753 (+80) intellect; 13428 (-2075) mastery; 6197 (-281) crit, and 12160 (+2445) haste. You will come out ahead with this setup, I promise.

As to your playstyle, Thok is good to see how well you make decisions when having to move as frost, because you can stage it to never get fixated but can plan for your movement around procs. The more skilled you are the more like a patchwerk fight this is, especially on heroic. The lower your haste, the most costly a wasted GCD is on IB. This is why I don't ever recommend that talent because you can just use TS which is better anyway.

You used your cooldowns correctly. Your Invoker's Energy was 97%+. I didn't see Toxic Power proc for you, did you not have the trinket at the time? That's significant, too.

I see on your first alter time you missed your PBoI, then on your second AT you only captured Icy Veins. I don't see a second potion used, which can be bundled with your 2nd or 3rd Alter Time. On your third AT, you only captured Jade Spirit & Icy Veins.

So basically, the biggest contributor to your lower than expected DPS is by not capturing buffs with AT. Adjust your gems and watch for your buffs, and you'll be golden with your uptimes.

Your bomb time is 97%+, but you use Ice Barrier 6 times. That's 6 lost GCDs which could have been used snapshotting or beginning another cast.

Thanks for the help. I changed for the raid tonight.

DPS still isn't that great, but I think I'm missing stupid things and I need to get weak auras set up so I can be notified better of my procs.

Snapshotting? Is this when you re-apply your bomb if you get a proc that increases haste or int for example?

So for using Alter Time, I should be waiting on using it until I have other procs up like lightweave/totem/PBoI? Then once they have procced, use orb, icy veins, mirror images etc?

I have been trying to manage all this better, but amidst other things sometimes I make a mistake and miss time it all.

[Deleted]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1573&e=1853

Just thought i should share this with you fellow frost mages, and i can say that they are 100% competitive for sure, 3rd week as frost mage, so wouldbt be suprised if i can change my gear or anything to do even more

Now that's just insane lol, share me your secrets so I can hopefully come close to that as well on our first heroic raid tonight ;D

[Deleted]

Now that's just insane lol, share me your secrets so I can hopefully come close to that as well on our first heroic raid tonight ;D

You go down first, Dot every add, watch that you hit multiple things with frozen-orb and cleaving icelance.

Althought the dps is really good

[Gvstoned]

You go down first, Dot every add, watch that you hit multiple things with frozen-orb and cleaving icelance.

Althought the dps is really good

And you be the person who logs the raid so you don't miss the time spent in the purifying phase thing.