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  1. #961
    Just a small correction. Frostbolt gcd caps with meta when you have 15698 haste, which translates into 53.85% raid buffed spell haste. 14242 is a gcd cap for your instants.

  2. #962
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maizensh View Post
    Just a small correction. Frostbolt gcd caps with meta when you have 15698 haste, which translates into 53.85% raid buffed spell haste. 14242 is a gcd cap for your instants.
    You're using incorrect terminology here.

    All GCDs are reduced by haste at the same rate. The GCD of Frostbolt is no different than the GCD of Ice Lance or Fire Blast or Cone of Cold or whatever.

    At 14242 haste, assuming 5% & 7% haste buffs, you will be at 1 sec GCD.

    This is not to be confused with Frostbolt cast time, which at 100% haste is reduced to 1 sec.

    http://lhiveras-library.com/wow-spells is a good reference to check yourself on this stuff.

  3. #963
    So quick question here i'm currently wearing my 4 piece tier set - using flex KTT and LFR PBIO, i'm sitting at 13,112 haste. I just got the flex mantid vizers robe. Is it worth it to break my 4 piece bonus in order to gain that 1200 haste for the 14242 haste? (I'm using the flex tier chest).

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/stormrage/wintes

  4. #964
    @Omegam, It is worth it to break the 4pc for the 1200 haste especially since you will be at 14242 the top priority as a frost mage. The 4pc is quite weak.

  5. #965
    Just for clarity, 14242 haste isn't a break point and therefore isn't a "omg sacrifice everything to hit this point for major dps". It's merely a point where the GCD is one second and therefore gives no damage past this point to our instant procs (losing value).

  6. #966
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Dear people who have an ilvl 580 PBoI ONLY,

    I present you with the beginnings of a new idea I have:


    This is scary stuff.

    I'm going to roll with 19k haste / 10k crit / 6k mastery for a while and do some more math, then present an "Advanced 580 PBoI Guide"

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Dear people who have an ilvl 580 PBoI ONLY,

    I present you with the beginnings of a new idea I have:

    This is scary stuff.

    I'm going to roll with 19k haste / 10k crit / 6k mastery for a while and do some more math, then present an "Advanced 580 PBoI Guide"
    HWF PBoI increased crit damage -> 1s cap Frostbolt with 19k haste -> skew damage towards frostbolt away from procs, increases value of crit and decreases mastery(sort of, they are symbiotic) -> increase base crit beyond shatter cap = more frostbolt crits critting harder than usual to HWF PBoI = increased DPS vs. standard haste to GCD cap proc/mastery reliant based builds?

    Did I get the gist of where you are going with the image?

  8. #968
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    HWF PBoI increased crit damage -> 1s cap Frostbolt with 19k haste -> skew damage towards frostbolt away from procs, increases value of crit and decreases mastery(sort of, they are symbiotic) -> increase base crit beyond shatter cap = more frostbolt crits critting harder than usual to HWF PBoI = increased DPS vs. standard haste to GCD cap proc/mastery reliant based builds?

    Did I get the gist of where you are going with the image?
    Basically yeah. Was afraid to post about it at all since this will only impact a tiny amount of hypergeared frost mages, but too many people look at my armory and I don't want them to get confused, lol.

    Most of the damage gain is from living bomb / nether tempest though. The magic of the 18960 breakpoint is it's both LB/NT which makes it multipurpose and the extra tick having a chance to crit is a big deal, a much bigger deal than I anticipated up to this point.

  9. #969
    Well, I haven't touched Frost in awhile (but I've still got it) but I'd be willing to go with your stats and do a lockout for you if it helps. Happened to coin a 580 PBoI last lockout.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Basically yeah. Was afraid to post about it at all since this will only impact a tiny amount of hypergeared frost mages, but too many people look at my armory and I don't want them to get confused, lol.

    Most of the damage gain is from living bomb / nether tempest though. The magic of the 18960 breakpoint is it's both LB/NT which makes it multipurpose and the extra tick having a chance to crit is a big deal, a much bigger deal than I anticipated up to this point.
    Is this spreadsheet analysis influenced by the FB/LB/WE-EB/FFB/IL ratio you have posted? Have you tried changing this to see what happens? Curious.
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2014-03-12 at 07:24 PM.

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    You're using incorrect terminology here.

    All GCDs are reduced by haste at the same rate. The GCD of Frostbolt is no different than the GCD of Ice Lance or Fire Blast or Cone of Cold or whatever.

    At 14242 haste, assuming 5% & 7% haste buffs, you will be at 1 sec GCD.

    This is not to be confused with Frostbolt cast time, which at 100% haste is reduced to 1 sec.

    http://lhiveras-library.com/wow-spells is a good reference to check yourself on this stuff.
    Yes, that's what I meant
    GCD as the name implies is global and is equal for all spells which have it (exceptions notwithstanding, like LB). By GCD capping Frostbolt I meant that you reach 1 second cast which is the GCD cap, any further haste beyond that point doesn't help frostbolt be better in the sense of casting speed, because you still need to wait out the gcd to cast another spell.
    But thanks for making it clearer nonetheless.

  12. #972
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've had 580 PBoI for a while and am sitting at 577 atm. I would be interested to see how this works.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Dear people who have an ilvl 580 PBoI ONLY,

    I present you with the beginnings of a new idea I have:


    This is scary stuff.

    I'm going to roll with 19k haste / 10k crit / 6k mastery for a while and do some more math, then present an "Advanced 580 PBoI Guide"
    Can you elaborate on what the individual stat priorities you are comparing are? I'm trying to think through them and some are obvious to what the priority is, others are a bit less. It also helps to highlight the standard condition currently used by most people (which I think is haste to soft cap > mastery > crit) to guide comparisons better. Also: What time length are we dealing with when looking at damage done?

  14. #974
    what stat weights are we looking at using to test the 580 PBoI?

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    what stat weights are we looking at using to test the 580 PBoI?
    The specific weights shouldn't matter (too much) as long as they are input in a way that enforces the trend you want.

  16. #976
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    You can start with my profile here:
    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/7...4-e515bb918e28

    Which got me to the right balance that I used for testing.

    Also, I mixed up all different ratios and also just set it to 1. Didn't matter-- seemed like 18.9k haste then crit was creating higher DPET with PBoI, only dipping to 14242>mastery in fights like Iron Juggernaut. I used the #of casts from a variety of logs. When I get more time I'm doing to through together some hypotheticals based off usage from top mage parses to get a clearer picture.

    But for now it's certainly worth testing. I expect slightly higher numbers but not drastically higher. I was inspired by a German mage I saw do 475k on Malkorok, which made my jaw drop. He was in fire gear, so had a lot of crit, but then reforged into haste/mastery, giving him pretty equal stats across the board. So I tested his stats vs. 14242 my stats vs max haste vs max crit vs 18960 haste>crit, and the haste>crit showed the best overall DPET calcs.

    What it does to LB is nuts. And the size of the icicles it generates from the increased crit dmg from 580 PBoI seems to outweigh icicle damage you get from mastery.

    The downside to this new crit build apart from requiring a 580 pboi is that it is subject to more RNG. Better hope you start critting.

    PS: I updated my armory and logged out, in case anyone wants to look at the madness I'm diving into.

  17. #977
    Bah, Item Restoration service is broken atm (WoD pre-order broke it) so I'll have to try it soon*tm. There's a few Heroic/HWF items I need to restore with Haste on them.
    Last edited by Mastamage; 2014-03-13 at 02:04 AM.

  18. #978
    Akraen
    your guide is amazing.
    got a quick question. Why always wear the tier gloves?
    Also
    As frost, is there ANY value in crit? I know its bottom of the totem pole, but is there even an equivalence of crit to say mastery(while at the 50% haste softcap)? 4 crit = 1 mastery? 5 crit = 1 msty? or is it so worthless that its not even worth considering? i can gain about 1.2% crit while sacrificing only .35% mastery, and also gaining some sp power and int in the process.

  19. #979
    Hey Akraen,

    I was running in to a issue with my mage recently regarding trinkets. Up until recently I was using Normal PBoI and Flex BBY this put my mastery at about 80% currently and I was pulling what felt like really great numbers using your mixture build.

    I just recently however had Normal KTT drop and from your guide it looked like it is a better trinket in all situations. However I am seeing a drop in damage even after reforging and adjusting for losing the BBY. I can't figure out if getting used to bomb snap shotting with the Garrosh trinket has spoiled me or I am expecting something weird from KTT. Should I be always using the Totem until I see a warforged Black Blood drop? We have a lot of raider switch outs happening as well which may be altering my numbers by altering the time of the fights. Just looking for some input/peace of mind about gearing choices.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ianla/advanced Armory

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by nianla View Post
    Hey Akraen,
    Hi
    Quote Originally Posted by nianla View Post
    I was running in to a issue with my mage recently regarding trinkets. Up until recently I was using Normal PBoI and Flex BBY this put my mastery at about 80% currently and I was pulling what felt like really great numbers using your mixture build.

    I just recently however had Normal KTT drop and from your guide it looked like it is a better trinket in all situations. However I am seeing a drop in damage even after reforging and adjusting for losing the BBY. I can't figure out if getting used to bomb snap shotting with the Garrosh trinket has spoiled me or I am expecting something weird from KTT. Should I be always using the Totem until I see a warforged Black Blood drop? We have a lot of raider switch outs happening as well which may be altering my numbers by altering the time of the fights. Just looking for some input/peace of mind about gearing choices.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ianla/advanced Armory
    561 KTT is always better than 548 BBoY. "I was doing less dps" is pretty subjective, and you didn't link any logs. There are more factors to doing less dps than the previous reset than gear. You could be tired, stoned, drunk, depressed, angry, lagging, in a cba mood, your raiders were slacking and kill times were longer, or you just didn't aoe enough. Any of those things could have affected the parse. Without logs, nobody can tell you if you were playing right or not and what the cause of less damage was.

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