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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans
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    Sims might or might not be correct for any particular spec/ability/proc and Blizzard only informally supports sim development.

    If I were developing a Monte Carlo type sim under the conditions that an outside developer has, I would be delighted if the particular fight I was working on was off by less than 10% from the result of a number of trials by an expert player. I'm sure that many fights are simulated seemingly precisely, but only because some results will randomly be less wrong than others.

    Sim DPS is really useful only as a way to determine stat weights. As a way to gauge individual performance, not so much. As a way to rank specs, not really at all.

  2. #22
    Just tell him to STFU and chances are people will agree with you. People tend to not like people like him. Most people will not usually hit their sim DPS, as long as you're not too far away from it. On the other hand with your level of progression I'd like to say that you should probably be very very close to it, if not hitting it. But the DK in question is still a total dick. Just hope for a mild rocky patch for the guild, some attendance hiccup or something, and usually people like him will immediately jump ship and be someone else's problem.

    TLDR: Tell the obnoxious toxic DK to STFU. Don't stress out about sims.

  3. #23
    The chances for patchwork fight as you progress up to heroics get lesser and lesser.

    I am more focus on making sure I perform my role. Add priority. Playing it safe.

    Take for instance Iron Juggernaut, I am defensive stance in p2 on progression kill to make it easy on healers and to max survivability.

    Could I do much more dps in beserk stance? Of course. But I can always do it on farm run instead of progression.

    Another eg is H Galakras. Could probably do much more dps if I focus on AOE. But on progression kill, I'm macroing focus on shamans, banners and totems. When RL reviewed logs, he proposed extra EP for me because I was doing top damage on shamans, totems and also interupts. This despite being arms. But the DK cried foul saying it was unfair.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Valech View Post
    Edit: Speak to your officers. Obviously he is leeching and tocix for the raidenviroment. There is nothing worse for any community then someone with a bloated ego. just look at Wycked.
    Well the sad part is when it isn't even deserved taking a quick glance over the bot.
    However different classes have different mechanics. Very little dot damage, rage and how the rotation works - I definitely felt back when I was still playing dk that it was a whole lot more forgiving.

  5. #25
    sims dont really mean anything imo

    all expansion sims have been suggesting that i've been doing something resulting in 30k dps loss, but i dont think human error can account for that much dps loss. epeenbot is probably a better measurement of where your performance stands than simcraft.

    also, wouldn't the ultraxion sim option be more accruate for malkorok than patchwerk?

    Another eg is H Galakras. Could probably do much more dps if I focus on AOE. But on progression kill, I'm macroing focus on shamans, banners and totems. When RL reviewed logs, he proposed extra EP for me because I was doing top damage on shamans, totems and also interupts. This despite being arms. But the DK cried foul saying it was unfair.
    well

    i think you got what you wanted

    but im not really a fan of airing someone's dirty laundry. recognize the dk as try hard get nowhere kind of player (or an extremely pretentious attention starved narcissist) and disregard anything they have to say.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wycked View Post
    Top .01%...rofl...sim's don't do dot refreshes based on procs or alter priorities based on prediction of movement/positioning alterations unless you edit them to. Sim's are ALWAYS on the low end of what you should be doing. Not hitting them on something like malkorok is just poor play.
    Does that mean you think Sepe, your Boomkin, is bad? I've played with the guy a couple times when your guild was Alliance and he was damn good. Also his numbers for H Iron Juggernaut and H Malkorok are below his sims where as your numbers are above his sims.

    So is Sepe bad? Or is it possible that Simcraft isn't optimized for SPriests based on mechanics they have? Genuine curiosity.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obby View Post
    unless your in the top .01% of players youll never hit your sim

    even then....idk lmao
    Well, the thing is that UH DKS ALWAYS sim lower than they can actually perform. Warriors DPS numbers are wonky because no fight perfectly mirrors any sim you run. If you run a patchwerk sim OFC your DPS in a real raid will be lower. Even on fights like Malkorak, due to some movement to soak, being in front of the boss at times, running out for a dispel, etc.

    In this case it's more a case of the DK being a retard and not knowing that UH sims lower than it actually performs in raid.

    I've beaten my sims, and I've gone lower than my sims. Some of it is due to luck on how mechanics are assigned or handled, some due to RNG on crits, trinket procs, boss during and parrying a CS during the pull etc, some are due to mistakes on my end and some times I've beaten due to (almost) perfect play.

    I'm not a fan of sim-dps as an end goal. It simply isn't accurate enough. Use it as a general guide, but even a 10-15% or more differential is not surprising.

    TL;DR, some classes perform better or worse on sims, UH sims lower than it can perform.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-10-07 at 05:53 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    The chances for patchwork fight as you progress up to heroics get lesser and lesser.

    I am more focus on making sure I perform my role. Add priority. Playing it safe.

    Take for instance Iron Juggernaut, I am defensive stance in p2 on progression kill to make it easy on healers and to max survivability.

    Could I do much more dps in beserk stance? Of course. But I can always do it on farm run instead of progression.

    Another eg is H Galakras. Could probably do much more dps if I focus on AOE. But on progression kill, I'm macroing focus on shamans, banners and totems. When RL reviewed logs, he proposed extra EP for me because I was doing top damage on shamans, totems and also interupts. This despite being arms. But the DK cried foul saying it was unfair.
    That's your issue. You're too busy being a good player and a solid team player trying to get the kill and not tunneling the boss like some people do.The sim talk means next to nothing. If he wants to try to call you out on numbers being generated from a program, by all means let him. Just be sure to let him know when his damage (in the real game)is shit on stuff he should be swapping to..Totems, shamans, banners anything really. Keep being a solid player and doing your best to help your raid, RL's notice that stuff more than you think.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Glimli View Post
    Or is it possible that Simcraft isn't optimized for SPriests based on mechanics they have? Genuine curiosity.
    Just like every other class, the default Simcraft scripts are terrible and using it for anything other than maybe stat prioritization is extremely foolish. Considering the simplicity of the spec I guarantee you somebody has made scripts that correctly simulate the exact things he's criticizing the default script doesn't do and more, but there will always end up being idiots making a fool of themselves so don't expect a genuine answer.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wycked View Post
    Your absolutely right, my lowly 11/14H ass knows nothing about simcraft.

    If you're going to argue with me, try being right.
    throwing around boss kills into an argument makes you look a complete twat , and with the way your attitude comes across to people id say you were that.
    11/14h...who gives a shit, prob had your lowly ass carried through it.

    Keep it civil, please. - Senen
    Last edited by Senen; 2013-10-07 at 03:47 PM.

  11. #31
    Kick him if he has that much of an ego and actually believes in simcraft. He's both terrible and narcissistic. He's only toxic to the guild and brings nothing to the table but negativity that a new recruit can't bring himself and even more.

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suggs View Post
    throwing around boss kills into an argument makes you look a complete twat , and with the way your attitude comes across to people id say you were that.
    11/14h...who gives a shit, prob had your lowly ass carried through it.
    This. Progression is one thing to judge skill, but I know plenty of warriors who are in top guilds who are terrible. And warriors in more casual guilds who are amazing.

    At the end of the day take someone's advice based on what they say, and how valid it is. Or someone who has a proven track record of giving good advice, E.G collision.

  13. #33
    He's clueless if it's simmed dps on Wowprogress, truly clueless.

    Simmed dps is only a measurement anyways, Simcraft is better used for stat weights.

    I outperform my sim dps. Simcraft says my Combustion should be ~7% but I always get 8-9%+ single target. What does that mean? Jack shit. He's better off checking your logs to see if you're doing something wrong in your rotation rather than comparing simmed dps. That's just retarded.

    Also, considering you're two different classes, tell him to f off. Getting simmed dps as a warrior is a completely different story than getting it as unholy, especially if he's playing his diseases right (since Unholy in Simcraft is kinda bad at maximizing disease damage)
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  14. #34
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    what is this discussion even? aslong as there is any rng involved no one will ever always do exact same dps as simulations done from their character

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    You can be 14/14H, still doesn't change that simcraft outputs a range, with the high and low end. If that class has been given the proper development time, it probably does the optimal rotation.
    In his defense, not Unholy DKs. They are probably the lowest performing class on Simcraft compared to how they are playing the game.

    Same with plenty of other classes, like my fire mage. I can play my Combustion around procs to increase my dps by 2-5% (and way more if I can cleave it) above the simmed dps, or even more in some cases.

    I'm also pretty sure a lot of other classes have similar situations, so simmed dps is often lower than the true optimal dps. Warrior simmed dps is usually higher than in reality though since it plays rage perfectly, which is why the douchebag OP is talking about has no clue about sims.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherrypowdah View Post
    what is this discussion even? aslong as there is any rng involved no one will ever always do exact same dps as simulations done from their character
    Yeah, but some classes reach simmed dps more easily than others.
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  16. #36
    I think there's ALOT more to this story. OP is looking for sympathy and handling this in a passive/aggressive manner. He should have went to the source first, or the officers/gm. Airing guild laundry on the forums with your guild in your sig is pretty low.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  17. #37
    My purpose was to get views of warrior sim v DK sims and then comparing warrior real dps vs sims.

    This I have achieved as I now know that because of the way unholy sim module is constructed, it is easy to out dps sim unlike fury sim.

    Thereafter got carried away with bitching which is wrong so I'm gonna stop bitching about him.

    But I do thank the other warriors standing up for a bro in arms
    Last edited by senturion; 2013-10-07 at 07:04 AM.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    It's also possible the UH DK is a better player. Really hard to know But ye UH always outperforms ts sims.

  19. #39
    It's not unrealistic to try to reach your simmed dps on single target fights specially when they're 4 min fights which have an edge on the longer sims, on iron juggernaut I was at 96% as fury and 101% as arms, but things like standing in front of the boss and soaking pools will obviously effect dps. I'm always a bit lower on mallorak and I know I can improve some as fury. If you're doing hc Mallorak shouldn't it be easy with a bit of extra cleave on adds? DKs might be less effected by moving out for a pool as their runes automaticly refresh, maybe he's getting some extra rp from antimagicshield idk hard to tell without logs. Might be that the unholy sim isn't perfect afaik they can snapshot stats for their diseases no idea if the sim does that as well or maybe you have still some room to improve.

  20. #40
    Senturion you should forget SimCraft and look at epeenbot. Get an idea of how you perform vs other warriors. That's it period!

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