Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    We were talking N malkorok without adds. For myself, I also do quite close to my sims back then on N Juggernaut and N Siegecrafter.
    Those fights I have only one priority which is max dps and for N juggernaut I was Zerker stance all e way. Back on first week of SOO, I think I got top 5 ranks for both back when my sims was ~250k.. Before RB was buffed. I was overseas, missed the 25 main raid so did a 10m instead.

    N malkorok has that stupid soaking mechanic which I find that I sometimes get out of hit range. I also caught the debuff which required me to get out of raid (back then I didn't know I could leap behind boss and still dps so I was afk whilst dropping debuff). In short, I don't do my optimal dps on malkorok that I admit.

    But my point is not whether I am > than him or he is > me. My point is that his comparison of his actual vs his sim and likewise doing the same comparison of my actual vs my sim is wrong. This is because sim dps depends on the module maker. And as some already pointed out, unholy dps sim is lower and more easily surpassed due to the way disease is computed.

    I did a random sample of an unholy DK around his sim dps level. That DK did 305k on normal 10m malkorok vs sim of 270k. It appears to me that there's quite a number of unholy DKs beating their sim.

    On the other hand, I picked a few top warriors I know and compared against their dps on N malkorok. I can say that it appears harder for fury warriors to hit our sim dps. Again, this I think is the way our module is created. I would assume that wowprogress sims make use of "patchwork" type sim. Which honestly, how often do we get fights where we have 100% uptime on boss and low movement? That's my point
    Last edited by senturion; 2013-10-07 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #42
    Simulations are a guideline of potential DPS in perfect patchwork conditions or some made up fight. During my more serious days that I had occasionally rank was close to or above the theoretical without any cheesing or such like my holy pally friend who would solo heal fights and sit at the top despite being out geared by heroic raiders. Simulations are more of a tool to help fine tune rotations, spell priorities, stats, and other factors in a controlled environment. One can use it to compare the variances between classes prior to more WoL data points being developed for each fight to figure out the balance differences between the classes along with other tools.

    Simcraft is a tool and like many others they have their purpose and are helpful when used properly.

  3. #43
    Sounds like the unholy sim isn't as good as it could be, as long as you perform well on juggernaut or siegecrafter I wouldn't worry and just show him that.

  4. #44
    I find it pretty hard to beat my sim tbh.
    I simmed myself at 288k, doing 283k on IJ normal.
    Sure (atleast with our positioning) you gotta use charge instead of something else in P2, to not get blasted into nirvana from the shock but it felt like I was playing pretty solid.

  5. #45
    Not sure if this has been brought up or not...are you sure he isn't 'scumbagging' his DPS numbers to buff his numbers, like DKs did on Tort with the bats?

  6. #46
    If you consistently outdps your sim on a patchwerk style fight, the only conclusion you should draw is that your sim is wrong. It is possible that lucky RNG will get you a bit above your simmed dps, but that's it. There must be some variable that isn't accounted for in his sim.
    I don't think this matters nearly as much as you think it does.

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    1,062
    Malkorok normal is a wierd fight in that I always beat my sim dps by quite a margin (warlock).

    The fact is that because the fight is so short (he dies in second miasma phase), dps in hugely inflated by having cooldowns come back up during execute, and having already started strongly with a bloodlusted pull.

  8. #48
    IJ normal is a good fight for us due to rage gain on zerker stance in phase 2. This allows us to get closer to our SIM. On 9/21 prior to the RB buff, I managed to do 264,846 dps. If I recall, it was a top 5 rank back then. I was mainly in my H TOT + a few upgrades gear back then.. SIM would have been around ~260k.

    Malkorok is abit different. 1) You get alot of glancing hits due to the stacking up mechanics 2) You sometimes get out of hit box when you soak 3) You may get the debuff which requires you to get out of raid.

    For DOT classes, how do your module maker designs your SIM? Take for instance, how do you assume dots are renewed? Do you assume all stars align- that all trinkets procs perfectly together etc ? Or do you assume an average of stat values? So it is the assumption that the module maker makes that determines the output. If the SIM maker is more conservative.. you get a more conservative SIM output and it is easier to "beat" your SIM. If the module maker assumes that everything comes aligned, then unless that happens for you, you'd be unable to break your SIM.

    For FURY,our default SIM (in WOW progress) assumes a patchwork fight. It assumes that you perform your CS rotation perfectly. That you always DPS from behind the boss. That CS doesn't get parried. etc. For Malkorok, this maybe quite optimistic. Sure, you get some extra rage from using beserker stance correctly - that's a gain. You may also profit from RNG in terms of trinket procs/crits. Still, quite difficult to break your SIMs.. the way our SIMs are structured. Not impossible.. but difficult.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshitsuna View Post
    I find it pretty hard to beat my sim tbh.
    I simmed myself at 288k, doing 283k on IJ normal.
    Sure (atleast with our positioning) you gotta use charge instead of something else in P2, to not get blasted into nirvana from the shock but it felt like I was playing pretty solid.
    Last edited by senturion; 2013-10-07 at 11:14 AM.

  9. #49
    Hm, I didn't even use Berserker Stance I think, so yea, always something to improve, as usual.

  10. #50
    Hrmm, had someone like that in an old guild a while back. Same level of arrogance, but not really one to attack other players... Turned out he was botting. In his /gquit post on the guild forums he told us all about it.

    Apparently there's bots out there where you control the movement, while they run your rotation. Needless to say, hitting your "sim" DPS becomes pretty easy then. So if this DK is always hitting sim DPS, but then has the odd horrible night and/or doesn't show up for a few days after a patch (cos the bots broken), he's probably running a combat bot.

    Just thought I'd mention it.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshitsuna View Post
    I find it pretty hard to beat my sim tbh.
    I simmed myself at 288k, doing 283k on IJ normal.
    Sure (atleast with our positioning) you gotta use charge instead of something else in P2, to not get blasted into nirvana from the shock but it felt like I was playing pretty solid.
    fury sims are hard to beat, but other spec sims are a cakewalk to beat... arms for example.
    Damosapien - DPS(whatever spec is better in that teir)/prot Warrior http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...apien/advanced
    Damodrood - Resto/feral(hybrid) Druid http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...drood/advanced
    Damoo - Blood/frost Death knight http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Damoo/simple

  12. #52
    Quoting ghostcrawler, "simulated dps is not dps". Very few specs are actually perfectly accurate when it comes to their actual dps number. The death knight module isn't even perfect. The key thing to note is that big number reported is an average as I'll explain below.

    Here is my log from a few weeks ago on Malkorok as unholy.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/t1dyy...7&e=4321#Nangz

    DPS: 266542

    Simcraft puts me at 285086 dps on a fight of similar length.

    This simcraft is after getting a 580 ilvl upgrade, a helm upgrade, a trinket upgrade, and a belt upgrade compared to the log I linked.

    The range of dps from my most recent sim is between 240k-340k dps. Yes, simcraft actually accounts for the possibility that with MASSIVE upgrades, my dps could go down. These are possibilities and because it is entirely impossible to eliminate RNG from your parses, comparing via simcraft is mostly useless. Especially considering some modules do not min max in every possible way that a good player would.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Quoting ghostcrawler, "simulated dps is not dps". Very few specs are actually perfectly accurate when it comes to their actual dps number. The death knight module isn't even perfect. The key thing to note is that big number reported is an average as I'll explain below.

    Here is my log from a few weeks ago on Malkorok as unholy.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/t1dyy...7&e=4321#Nangz


    DPS: 266542

    Simcraft puts me at 285086 dps on a fight of similar length.

    This simcraft is after getting a 580 ilvl upgrade, a helm upgrade, a trinket upgrade, and a belt upgrade compared to the log I linked.

    The range of dps from my most recent sim is between 240k-340k dps. Yes, simcraft actually accounts for the possibility that with MASSIVE upgrades, my dps could go down. These are possibilities and because it is entirely impossible to eliminate RNG from your parses, comparing via simcraft is mostly useless. Especially considering some modules do not min max in every possible way that a good player would.
    Weird stuff, I think Fury sims range is like +10k max, but I might not remember correctly.

  14. #54
    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/Fros...e/Deathshatil/

    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/Frostmourne/Senturion/

    He looks decent to me, but nothing fancy, except for a super high log on Sha Heroic which was probably padfest 2013.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://puu.sh/4JT8K.png

    http://puu.sh/4JT8T.png

    He did more damage to adds than you by a lot
    You did more damage to boss than him by a lot
    Hakushi - Main Shaman - 587 Enh/573 Ele 8/8 HM DS (5% Nerf Spine/Madness), 7/7 HM FL, 6/6 HM MSV, 6/6 HM HoF, 4/4 HM ToES, 13/13 HM ToT, 14/14 HM SoO
    Oxyra - Semi-Main DK - 570 Blood 6/6 HM MSV, 6/6 HM HoF, 4/4 HM ToES, 13/13 HM ToT, 4/14 HM SoO
    Raiding with Fused - Illidan

  15. #55
    also, instead of being annoyed senturion... just call him a class a idiot for not being duel wield frost, can call your leader a class b idiot too for not knowing that unholy is wank and certainly doesn't deserve a hc weap before a fury warrior.
    Damosapien - DPS(whatever spec is better in that teir)/prot Warrior http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...apien/advanced
    Damodrood - Resto/feral(hybrid) Druid http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...drood/advanced
    Damoo - Blood/frost Death knight http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Damoo/simple

  16. #56
    If your guild is not set up to give loot by a performance priority, then he's just talking shit. If your guild IS set up to give loot on a performance priority, then you really can't complain because I'm sure they made that clear before you joined. If it's not set up that way and they're doing some shady shit, then you have another issue altogether.

    Sims aside, if he's beating you, he's beating you. Numbers don't lie. If he's outperforming YOU then he's outperforming you regardless of sim data. When these things happen, just work on getting better. And I don't mean that in a dick way, I'm completely serious. Take the time to practice, find out what you're missing, and then beat his numbers. Then he can't talk shit.

    Take it as a challenge, as a chance to step up and improve your game. There's no reason to get upset and let it affect your performance any more. If you're in a guild doing HM's, you should be pushing yourself further on every encounter anyway. Complaining won't improve your numbers, only you will.

    Rule for success: Don't try to find reasons or excuses as to why your DPS is low, find ways to increase it.

    Don't sweat it, take it as an opportunity to improve.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    If your guild is not set up to give loot by a performance priority, then he's just talking shit. If your guild IS set up to give loot on a performance priority, then you really can't complain because I'm sure they made that clear before you joined. If it's not set up that way and they're doing some shady shit, then you have another issue altogether.

    Sims aside, if he's beating you, he's beating you. Numbers don't lie. If he's outperforming YOU then he's outperforming you regardless of sim data. When these things happen, just work on getting better. And I don't mean that in a dick way, I'm completely serious. Take the time to practice, find out what you're missing, and then beat his numbers. Then he can't talk shit.

    Take it as a challenge, as a chance to step up and improve your game. There's no reason to get upset and let it affect your performance any more. If you're in a guild doing HM's, you should be pushing yourself further on every encounter anyway. Complaining won't improve your numbers, only you will.

    Rule for success: Don't try to find reasons or excuses as to why your DPS is low, find ways to increase it.

    Don't sweat it, take it as an opportunity to improve.
    Numbers DO lie tho, add padding resulting in higher DPS doesn't mean hes performing better for example.
    It's always a case by case kind of thing, when comparing DPS after all.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshitsuna View Post
    Numbers DO lie tho, add padding resulting in higher DPS doesn't mean hes performing better for example.
    It's always a case by case kind of thing, when comparing DPS after all.
    I'm assuming this is a consistent issue, not a one time/one fight issue. Failing on one fight (and not others) could be summed up to a lot of things. But consistently low numbers is an issue that needs to be addressed by the player himself, and that's not done by looking for reasons/excuses, but only ways to improve.

    That's all I'm saying.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post

    In this case it's more a case of the DK being a retard and not knowing that UH sims lower than it actually performs in raid.

    I've beaten my sims, and I've gone lower than my sims. Some of it is due to luck on how mechanics are assigned or handled, some due to RNG on crits, trinket procs, boss during and parrying a CS during the pull etc, some are due to mistakes on my end and some times I've beaten due to (almost) perfect play.

    I'm not a fan of sim-dps as an end goal. It simply isn't accurate enough. Use it as a general guide, but even a 10-15% or more differential is not surprising.
    Agree. My char sims 261k, i do 280k - 290k every week on iron juggy with a decent amount of mistakes and soaking of mines. When i saw i could beat my sim dps while making mistakes i just gave up on the thing mostly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oktoberfest View Post
    If you do not like guns, move to England. It is that simple.
    Simply pack up and leave! Much think, such smart.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    I'm assuming this is a consistent issue, not a one time/one fight issue. Failing on one fight (and not others) could be summed up to a lot of things. But consistently low numbers is an issue that needs to be addressed by the player himself, and that's not done by looking for reasons/excuses, but only ways to improve.

    That's all I'm saying.
    Oh I'm agreeing with you, that one should always look to improve himself.
    Just the DK called him out on a major add fight from what I've gotten here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akoroth View Post
    Agree. My char sims 261k, i do 280k - 290k every week on iron juggy with a decent amount of mistakes and soaking of mines. When i saw i could beat my sim dps while making mistakes i just gave up on the thing mostly.

    Your char is 3 ilvls above mine, with same ilvl weapons and a better trinket.
    Even tho you don't have the T16 2P which does a lot, you're not simming 261k.

    Just simed your char and its at 301k DPS, so you're actually "just" at about 95%ish of your sim DPS, not beating it by 20-30k :P

    http://i41.tinypic.com/2vaz40p.jpg
    Last edited by Yoshitsuna; 2013-10-07 at 02:50 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •