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  1. #1

    Forming a raiding guild, Need advice

    Okay So i started a guild, I leveled a 90 and in the process have about 50 members strong. Now that im 90 and gearing up I want to start a 10m raiding guild. I haven't raided since Firelands. So any advice on how going about this will help greatly.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Lefeng's Avatar
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    It's difficult to start a raiding guild this late in an expansion, so don't be surprised if it's slow going. Probably the most important thing is to first find 10 players that can consistently attend your raids, once you decide what time and how often. In all of the raiding guilds I've been in the most important factor for success has been having a firm team. It's nice to have backups also. You'll want to decide on a loot policy. My guild uses loot council and it works well for us but it's not for everyone. There are pros and cons for every policy, so the most important thing is to find a consensus among your raiders. Make sure that as a leader you delegate some things. It's ok to have the guild leader, raid leader, loot master, and provisioner be four different people. It gives more ownership to the members and spreads the work out so once person doesn't have to worry about everything.

    If you have mostly inexperienced raiders, start out doing LFR as a group and then do a flex at least once per week. Remember that in flex mode you can reset and practice earlier bosses even though you only get a chance for loot on the first kill, just like in LFR. Once you feel pretty confident in flex mode, move up to normals. The new system seems pretty forgiving for inexperienced guilds, so take advantage of that. Those flex modes are also good for gearing and training your backups.

  3. #3
    any advice ? plan ahead

    as long as you are not more specific with your question, what the hell do we know ? Describe your situation in a bit more than one sentence, then maybe we will get interested.
    Ecce homo ergo elk

  4. #4
    If anything now's the best time to form a raiding guild - you can 'build' a base without the pressure of progression (assuming you don't really get up and running until the tail end of the expansion). You'll then be prepped and ready to go come next expansion.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Sigma's Avatar
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    Get yourself some voice coms, Vent, Ts3, Raid Call. Whatever
    Read Tactics for First boss
    Decied up on loot distribution, going to stick with need / greed, or use a DKP system of sort
    Grab 2 Tank, 2 Healers, 6 DPS, and start raiding.

  6. #6
    I'm guessing you're very casual. I'm aware you said 10man, but flex raid allows 10-25 players.

    Flex Raid is right up your alley if so.

    Get a website

    Post on many forums

    Make a GMOTD that says you're going to start a 10man core (or XX-XX amount of people for Flex)

    Throw everyone into a raid blender and see who knows what they're doing, and/or shows the capacity to learn from mistakes, make changes as you go.

    Lastly, recruit via pugs.
    Last edited by MrPaladinGuy; 2013-10-07 at 07:45 AM.

  7. #7
    This will be quick and a method i used to get a 2nd team when lich king raid come out.
    First off decide what night/s you are going to raid and what time. Then completely learn the raid you choose to do. Tank healing ranged melee and cc rolls along with mechanics.

    Be on 30 before you wish to raid and start pugging. Now the people the usually join pugs either don't raid within their guild, missed it already or want to use an alt. You need to specify what rolls you need.
    Give everybody you vent details and have a chat to a few while waiting for the rest.
    During the raid you give a description of he mechanics and some rolls as well to help those who don't know the fight.

    At the end of the raid you can either advertise or whisper the people you would like to join.
    Id suggest doing flex as its a little forgiving compared to normal mode.

    It may help to have some food ready for the raid as well.

    TLDR: recruit via pugging.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Twoflower View Post
    any advice ? plan ahead
    that, and also be a good player yourself, no one likes a GM that can't do it themselves.
    also, don't advertise it's just for raiding at the start, pick up some pugs, see who does a good job, keep lists, tell the good players what you're doing, get them guild/raid invites.
    a bad player who gets sat all the time because he's bad will still think they're entitled to join raids and cause drama.
    beware the "ill join but can my wife/son/sister/etc join as well" because then you ahve good players who think their baddie family members should be able to get in every run as well...

    just be forward about what you want, tell them, yeah you can join but your XYZ family will have to sit on social status unless they can prove themselves as well.

    just prevent drama in the first place by stating outright what you are looking for, what's allowed, how loot will work (EPGP is nice tbh, but heh...personal choice)
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  9. #9
    Casual or serious imo: get a website
    Casual or serious imo: get TS/vent/mumble setup
    Casual or serious imo: get about 2 officers, especially ones that do not mind to raidlead and are good at explaining things
    Your management setup:
    - who is the "bad" guy who kicks bad/improper players from the guild?
    - who is the "nice" guy who people will confide their real life problems to?
    - who is the "strategy" guy who reads every guide and applies this to your raidteam?

    Since you are a 10 man guild. I doubt you will be having a DKP system. It really sucks to have one with this few people imo.

    - select people you know will not cause drama (you cannot always know ofcourse, but some people scream drama, do not take them)
    - select people you know will very likely show up (some people will say that they will "give it a go" etc. Do not plan future stuff with them in mind.)
    - keep recruiting at all times, even if you do not need new people. You can always turn down an applicant. And depending on your style of play (serious or not) you can actually replace people that you think are holding your guild back.
    - have on your website, some groundrules. (e.g. about respect, being on time, being prepared and repaired etc etc, no drama from you or we kick your ass, whatever as long as it is reasonable)

    Last but not least:
    Make sure you grind it into your members head that you are not THEIR slave. You do not get paid to be their leader and organise stuff. You are going to fuck up a few times along the way atleast. So people need to be patient. You cannot please everyone. But you can try and please most. That is what your objective is if you are a GM.


    Do not: get your girlfriend in the guild and if you do, DO NOT MAKE HER AN OFFICER
    In fact do not make ANY real life friends officers unless they are the most capable person in your group. Favouritism is not that far away.

    Also nice rule:
    Do not give special benefits to officers or yourself as GM. Do not just take that special mount that drops just because you are GM. It will look badly. Sure most people will just accept it as a GM/officer perk and you do, do more then most guildies. But it reeks of corruption/favouritism.

    What you could do it: check how long most members have been in the guild (set the date of their date of joining in the officer note on the guildroster) and let the top 5 or 6 roll for the special thing. That includes yourself. This in term will usually not be seen as favouritism etc. Because you let regular LOYAL members have a roll too. You also seem to reward LOYALTY in that manner
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2013-10-07 at 09:15 AM.

  10. #10
    Another side note worth mentioning is for raid leading and being a gm. Above are some good points and there are more in depth guides out there.

    I suggest looking at raid leader guides on this site, Google search. My favourite guide is by the 'joystick' website.
    Goodluck and let us know how you go over the next couple weeks

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! muto's Avatar
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    Half melee, half casters.

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  13. #13
    When recruiting, remember that personality is more important than current gear level. Sure you want people who can illustrate raiding proficiency in the past, but MORE important is what kind of person they are. You want people with similar goals for the raid team, and it's up to you to clearly state what your objectives are. IMO laid back, easy going people who reliably show up to raid, know their class, and aren't prima donnas, elitists, or loot whores is who you want. When people step out of line, whether it be criticizing others in the group, not pulling their weight, tardiness etc, it's up to you to deal with it promptly and decisively to be fair to the others in your group (without being a dick). I'd talk privately with first time offenders and find out the details of the shortcoming before saying anything publicly.

    Good luck, it won't be easy, but if you find the right group, it will be very rewarding. I still miss the 10man guild some friends formed at the beginning of MoP. It was a great guild that claimed server firsts (and some world top 100s) on a lot of kills before dying to daily grind burnout (damn the Tillers, Shadow Pan, August Celestials, Golden Lotus, etc) and romantic drama when HoF had just come out.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vvulf View Post
    When recruiting, remember that personality is more important than current gear level. Sure you want people who can illustrate raiding proficiency in the past, but MORE important is what kind of person they are. You want people with similar goals for the raid team, and it's up to you to clearly state what your objectives are. IMO laid back, easy going people who reliably show up to raid, know their class, and aren't prima donnas, elitists, or loot whores is who you want. When people step out of line, whether it be criticizing others in the group, not pulling their weight, tardiness etc, it's up to you to deal with it promptly and decisively to be fair to the others in your group (without being a dick). I'd talk privately with first time offenders and find out the details of the shortcoming before saying anything publicly.

    Good luck, it won't be easy, but if you find the right group, it will be very rewarding. I still miss the 10man guild some friends formed at the beginning of MoP. It was a great guild that claimed server firsts (and some world top 100s) on a lot of kills before dying to daily grind burnout (damn the Tillers, Shadow Pan, August Celestials, Golden Lotus, etc) and romantic drama when HoF had just come out.
    While I do not dismiss your experience that it was a great guild. But seriously if it was so great, why did it disband (thats the information I am getting from you since you still "miss it") due to drama?

    Great guilds are imo long lasting with a solid backbone. If a guild did not survive for more then 1 expansion it is still very much in the danger zone.
    You need to survive a couple of summers and Xmass's and also the void between expansions.

    I've seen so many guilds "suddenly reach server first" and then blow up because they are being lead by the wrong people. I am not saying this was the same in your case. But I think I've made a healthy bias against "newcomers" who claim they are so great and then one thing goes wrong and BOOM guild implodes.

    My experience with these newcomers is that we have the:

    - I can do better then my current guild-type of player > makes his own guild
    - recruits most of his skilled ingame not intimately known friends
    - gets packaged deals in the guild

    Guild survives for 6 months of super hypeness because they down everything pretty decent. Boom drama, over and out.

    -----
    Kiddies make the guild. So much fun, so much drama and /gquits all over the place.
    -----
    Exceptions are there ofcourse. I've known a 13 year old kid who made such a great guild it stood server 1st and high on world ranking for years. But this is often not the case.
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2013-10-07 at 09:49 AM.

  15. #15
    well if the raid team mainly excist out of not experienced raiders, prehaps of starting progress on normal.
    go a step lower and start with Flex, this will allow you too test all the interrested people at the same time (well as long it aint more 25).
    and once completing it or atleast having high progress, you can take the most promising of the lot into a 10man raid team.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    While I do not dismiss your experience that it was a great guild. But seriously if it was so great, why did it disband (thats the information I am getting from you since you still "miss it") due to drama? .
    I already stated why it disbanded. Are you just slow as well as being judgmental?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vvulf View Post
    I already stated why it disbanded. Are you just slow as well as being judgmental?
    I read that it was burnout (already geez) and romantic issues. Which leads me to believe (apart from the burnout) that it was lead by weak leaders.

  18. #18
    While the advise above is good.

    I'de like to point out something else.

    I don't know how far you are in the gearing proces, I would say that is where you would want to start looking at.

    There is nothing more discouraging than entering a raid, to find out your not ready for the task at hand yet and hit a brickwall from the start, especially for a newly formed raiding guild.

    Take a good look at your, and your fellow raiders gear levels.And don't be afraid to take a step back and start raiding an earlier tier and work your way up from there.
    Also I would personally not take a group into LFR because frankly you can pretty much ignore a lot of mechanics, wihch would otherwise kill you.

    After you established what your current goal is, and wich raid is a viable one to start in ....start having fun, and make shure you prepare for the bosses you plan to kill. Know the mechanics and do some homework.
    You will wipe, so make shure your expecations are reasonable, and plan your raids accordingly.

    And most important of all, never allow annybody but yourself (since I take it you are the GM ) or the Raid Leader point out major flaws or mistakes. People tend to take critisism badly, and they will accept it faster if it comes from one person instead of a multitude of. Especially in a newly formed group of persons who don't know eachother that well.
    If you do point out major Flaws or mistakes try to generalize it so it's not completely directed towards one person with a pointed finger. If it occurs more often dont be afraid to give a friendly whisper instead of bluntly calling a person out at the start. Ofc when it happens more often from the same person you can start being a bit more blunt, aftwer which you should also start asking the question :"Is this the right guy for us"

    On a more comical note:
    If your not hitting Enrage, never ever allow dat Damn DPS to tunnel, make em switch accordingly to the mechanics, and make em switch fast.

    Good luck and have fun
    Last edited by Nytecrawler; 2013-10-07 at 10:57 AM.

  19. #19
    Be clear about what kind of guild/raid team you want to be in short future and in the long run. Set rules to accompany those plans, be open and clear about those rules and follow/enforce them. Honestly, nobody likes being strict in a game (we all play for fun, right?), but you'll need to have rules and abide them if you want to get anywhere as a raiding guild.

    For example, if your plans are to form a successful semi-hardcore raiding guild, you'll probably want to set attendance requirements. It's better to raid 10 man with a pool of ~13 raiders who each have high attendance, than to raid 10 man with a pool of 20 raiders, each of which only show up half the time.

    Here's a bunch of rules you could choose to enforce. It's totally up to you.
    - Raiders must have Vent/Mumble/TS/your voicechat-provider of choice installed and be able to listen to their raid leaders.
    - Raiders must prepare themselves for each raid by bringing food, flasks and potions. Gear, including the drops from previous raids, must be gemmed and enchanted accordingly.
    - Raiders must be able to attend at least 80% of the raids.
    - Raiders who were benched/standby on last raid get prioritized on the next, if the setup allows it (e.g. there's enough tanks/healers).
    - Loot is distributed fairly among all raiders. Officers/leaders are treated similar to others.
    - Sign up/off for raids at least a day in advance.
    - Show up at least 15 minutes before raid starts.

    Try to separate real-life relationships from guild relationships. No special perks for girlfriends, things like that. In fact, I'd recommend not having girlfriends in your guild at all. There's bound to be drama, but you'll probably have to experience this by yourself in order to find out. (I, too, thought "meh how bad could it be?", until shit hit the fan. Never again!)

  20. #20
    join other guild to raid...
    This late in expansion it's very hard to get decent tanks and healers to build a core of your group.. You'll waste weeks to get people, then wait for them to gear up and by the time you kill 1 boss the expack will end..
    To be fair ATM.. why anyone would like to join a new guild with experience in raiding, 0 boss kills and no real group already formed?.. We're in a first 20 guilds on realm in progress in SoO, and it's still really hard to replace 2 healers that suddenly left.. And I'm playing on very crowdy realm..
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

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