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  1. #321
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T18Z View Post
    I doubt your rankings greatly, and your performance/progression. If you do somehow manage to rank, I'm willing to bet it's as an obscure unused spec with a low population among raiders.

    You've essentially shown me nothing but you're too stubborn to admit you're playing an inferior setup.
    I've never said it's not inferior, just the difference is so miniscule its LAUGHABLE that anyone who hasn't killed hc garrosh is making a big deal about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #322
    I use standard UI except for 2 PvP addons that are pretty much essential. I do keybind with mouseovers though mainly because I am a healer. I used to click in WOTLK as a Frost DK and I was the top DPS on my server for a long time until people started getting Shadowmourne. While keybinding would have improved my dps some its still possible to click and DPS though I wouldn't recommend it.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I've never said it's not inferior, just the difference is so miniscule its LAUGHABLE that anyone who hasn't killed hc garrosh is making a big deal about it.
    How would you know it's miniscule, when you don't even keybind, clearly. Your opinion is about as useful as a plank of woods on mathematics.

  4. #324
    High Overlord dyzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I've never said it's not inferior, just the difference is so miniscule its LAUGHABLE that anyone who hasn't killed hc garrosh is making a big deal about it.
    Now your using Heroic Garrosh as your "plateau" for people to call you out? That is hilarious. I am sure you said the same thing with 4 Horseman, Muru, LK, etc etc. At this point you are trolling, or incredibly dumb.

    He is probably ranking because he just tunnel visions everything like most clickers do, and they get carried by good healers.

  5. #325
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyzz View Post
    Now your using Heroic Garrosh as your "plateau" for people to call you out? That is hilarious. I am sure you said the same thing with 4 Horseman, Muru, LK, etc etc. At this point you are trolling, or incredibly dumb.

    He is probably ranking because he just tunnel visions everything like most clickers do, and they get carried by good healers.
    Wrong, I prioritize fight, the fact you collectively resort to ad hominem proves how little you have to stand on.

    I use HC garrosh as the plateau because of how little benefit is offered from switching - yes I have switched, for multiple weeks at a time on multiple occasions. No visible benefit. I know first hand I gain nothing from switching and it's people who can't have a serious discussion who are calling me out, which is why this is getting pointless. I won't suddenly start failing because you all shout loud enough, neither will any other decent clicker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Wrong, I prioritize fight, the fact you collectively resort to ad hominem proves how little you have to stand on.

    I use HC garrosh as the plateau because of how little benefit is offered from switching - yes I have switched, for multiple weeks at a time on multiple occasions. No visible benefit. I know first hand I gain nothing from switching and it's people who can't have a serious discussion who are calling me out, which is why this is getting pointless. I won't suddenly start failing because you all shout loud enough, neither will any other decent clicker.
    I'd love to see you doing spoils heroic as a tank or multidotter and perform decently.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  7. #327
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    I'd love to see you doing spoils heroic as a tank or multidotter and perform decently.
    Unfortunately I play enhancement shaman so I would struggle to fill either role. Could you please explain what troubles a multi-dotter has though? They're usually extremely easy to click with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #328
    The fact you seem to think you "switched" multiple times for multiple weeks is very laughable. I seriously doubt you even play as competitively as you believe, so far you've shown me nothing to prove otherwise either. Clicking is vastly inferior, in close to all situations. You're talking to someone who has experienced both clicking for a number of years and keybinding too. I noticed a large difference a long time ago.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Unfortunately I play enhancement shaman so I would struggle to fill either role. Could you please explain what troubles a multi-dotter has though? They're usually extremely easy to click with.
    Constantly dotting ~5 moving targets while being a pretty good part of the fight on the move due to various mechanics (applies more to the mantid part rather than the mogu part, granted).
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  10. #330
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T18Z View Post
    The fact you seem to think you "switched" multiple times for multiple weeks is very laughable. I seriously doubt you even play as competitively as you believe, so far you've shown me nothing to prove otherwise either. Clicking is vastly inferior, in close to all situations. You're talking to someone who has experienced both clicking for a number of years and keybinding too. I noticed a large difference a long time ago.
    I used to play multiple hours per day everyday, I now play a lot less but "multiple weeks" is a LOT of hours on that schedule. And competitively? No I've never been that competitive, doesn't mean I couldn't rank though. Even running a social guild I find I was ranking most weeks until others got the gear bump this patch that I've yet to catch up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Unfortunately I play enhancement shaman so I would struggle to fill either role. Could you please explain what troubles a multi-dotter has though? They're usually extremely easy to click with.
    Using your mouse to click a mob, click each dot, click the next mob, click each dot, all while not standing in anything and handling mechanics correctly is several times less efficient then simply clicking a mob, using your keybinds to dot, and clicking the next mob.

    Not to mention your extra action button is another thing you have to click if you're a clicker.

    The biggest issue I see with clicking is that it'll usually mean you're also a keyboard turner. Keyboard turning is god awful. I don't believe the difference between clicking and keybinding is minuscule at all. Its a huge playstyle change that makes you better suited to handle different situations. Not saying its impossible to be good and a clicker, but I am saying that 99 times out of a 100 a good clicker would be a great player if he just keybound.
    Last edited by Vedni; 2013-10-09 at 03:00 PM.

  12. #332
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedni View Post
    Using your mouse to click a mob, click each dot, click the next mob, click each dot, all while not standing in anything and handling mechanics correctly is several times less efficient then simply clicking a mob, using your keybinds to dot, and clicking the next mob.

    Not to mention your extra action button is another thing you have to click if you're a clicker.

    The biggest issue I see with clicking is that it'll usually mean you're also a keyboard turner. Keyboard turning is god awful. I don't believe the difference between clicking and keybinding is minuscule at all. Its a huge playstyle change that makes you better suited to handle different situations. Not saying its impossible to be good and a clicker, but I am saying that 99 times out of a 100 a good clicker would be a great player if he just keybound.
    Well at least you aren't closedminded about it.

    Clicking on multiple things per GCD isn't very difficult when you're used to it. Movement is usually easy to handle with a mix of keyboard turns, strafes, quick adjustments between GCD on facing, and autorun when I'm slacking. Jumps massively helpful too.

    Due to GCD restrictions, the inefficiency seen by some does not need to impact on your performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Well at least you aren't closedminded about it.

    Clicking on multiple things per GCD isn't very difficult when you're used to it. Movement is usually easy to handle with a mix of keyboard turns, strafes, quick adjustments between GCD on facing, and autorun when I'm slacking. Jumps massively helpful too.

    Due to GCD restrictions, the inefficiency seen by some does not need to impact on your performance.
    It does, but not on performance seen as pure numbers. It reduces your attention span, since there's no way you realibly know where your cursor is every time, therefore you have to find where it is and get distracted from what you're currently doing.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  14. #334
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    It does, but not on performance seen as pure numbers. It reduces your attention span, since there's no way you realibly know where your cursor is every time, therefore you have to find where it is and get distracted from what you're currently doing.
    I've disputed this a few times, maybe this isn't a quick thing to pick up but I will always know where my mouse is while playing (or 99.9% of the time because .1% my cat knocks over my shelf and in the shock I hit my mouse away without realizing seeing wahts going on).

    The largest DPS loss I've found (excluding hexos) from clicking is usually from targetting a specific difficult to target add among a load of adds, which is more a UI problem than a clicking problem for me that I CBA to fix.
    Last edited by Raiju; 2013-10-09 at 03:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  15. #335
    As a druid healer i use 1-7 with my fingers, rest of my abilities are clicked.
    Except for §, which is the only button i've keybinded.

    I'm also using default everything. I've got DBM, skada, atlasloot, that's pretty much it.
    Top progress on our realm, realm first last tier.
    I've been playing this way since i started so i guess i'm very used to it by now, having alot of keybinds isn't my cup of tea.


    Oh and for the UI stuff, as a healer i've got no idea why anyone would use anything other than blizz ui, it's great for everything. Shows all the debuffs that are important, shows my cd's i've used on the target, shows hp... rest is all about predicting who gets damaged.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Why over-complicate your life with remembering which key does what?

    I've always clicked and I've been relatively successful (when I played).
    Remembering what key does what? No such thing for a experienced player that is using binds, when one have played with it for a while its in your muscle memory which means there is very little, if any additional mental effort at all involved hitting the right things.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Well at least you aren't closedminded about it.

    Clicking on multiple things per GCD isn't very difficult when you're used to it. Movement is usually easy to handle with a mix of keyboard turns, strafes, quick adjustments between GCD on facing, and autorun when I'm slacking. Jumps massively helpful too.

    Due to GCD restrictions, the inefficiency seen by some does not need to impact on your performance.
    You can't be serious. Add switching cannot be done most efficiently the way you play. Targetting macro + key-bound spells are going to be 1-2 seconds faster minimum, especially if you need to rotate your camera/character which you will have to do on spoils.

  18. #338
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    You can't be serious. Add switching cannot be done most efficiently the way you play. Targetting macro + key-bound spells are going to be 1-2 seconds faster minimum, especially if you need to rotate your camera/character which you will have to do on spoils.
    I'd argue 0.2-0.8 seconds as more accurate. Clickers can use target macros too and cut that down to 0.2-0.5. I will add I don't shy away from tab targetting when things look hairy (often I find spamming attack with certain camera angles works out just fine for insta targeting)
    Last edited by Raiju; 2013-10-09 at 03:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #339
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrayEU View Post
    You are wrong, clicking will never be better than keybinding.
    Keybinder I'd like to introduce you to Global Cooldown.

  20. #340
    High Overlord Basso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Keybinder I'd like to introduce you to Global Cooldown.
    Clickers i'd like to introduce you to hitting two buttons at the same time. there are so many specific cases you can't makro them all, wow doesnt provide that many bars or even makro spaces......

    Keybinding > Clicking

    For many reasons, all already mentioned in this thread.....

    You can be good as a clicker but you will be even better as a keybinder if doing it right.

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