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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by fiestatastic View Post
    Destruction warlock in my raid is a 100% clicker, like he clicks every single spell on his screen from the cast bar. He does good dps still, but on heroic progression he definitely dies the most to mechanics and is definitely not someone we'd put in charge of handling an important mechanic. However, he's still good, really knows destruction and is consistently above 250k for single target fights and above 350-400k on heavy aoe fights like garrosh (500 to as much as 800k on the pull). I'd imagine he'd be incredible though if he played with keybinds instead, but he tried and didn't like it and said he played worse.
    now that's a waste of potential. i can't even imagine how someone can play that way. not being able to turn your camera midfight without stopping whatever you were doing. i bet he moves backwards when he has to go in that direction because turning his camera would take too long. often he will die in that fire he tried to back out.

    wow is so movement-heavy that 100% clickers have a hard time. it was no problem years ago when most fights were tank&spank.

  2. #42
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    I know plenty of HC raiders that click, its harder to do, but whatever suits the person.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by fiestatastic View Post
    Destruction warlock in my raid is a 100% clicker, like he clicks every single spell on his screen from the cast bar. He does good dps still, but on heroic progression he definitely dies the most to mechanics and is definitely not someone we'd put in charge of handling an important mechanic. However, he's still good, really knows destruction and is consistently above 250k for single target fights and above 350-400k on heavy aoe fights like garrosh (500 to as much as 800k on the pull). I'd imagine he'd be incredible though if he played with keybinds instead, but he tried and didn't like it and said he played worse.
    Of course he's going to "play worse" if he just switches all his keybinds and runs into an instance. Keybinds are about muscle memory, he's going to have to change things and practice them outside of raid until he gets used to it.

    I don't understand people who have this idea of "I could be better, I just don't want to." It's one thing to be learning, trying new things, and maybe not knowing HOW to improve just yet, it's another thing to know what would make you better and just refuse to do it.

    But yeah, done with that rant, if he wants to try keybinding, he should do a few at a time, practice, and keep adding to it. It's just stupid for him to expect everything to work optimally 2 seconds after he sets his keybinds and give up when it doesn't.

  4. #44
    Where should I start....
    Well let's just say I play since middle BC, and started to play on an more than average Level since Middle/End WotLK (concerning Raids). As everyone else I've got more than One Character, but I'll only talk about my Main = Hunter.
    First off all I've always been the clicking type and I'm never going to change that at all!
    As some of you already mentioned and even more talked about this in the past (and still talking :P) there definately are some disadvantages compairing the Hotkey-Fraction.
    May it be the Target-Switching or using your abilities in the most effective way (Rotation etc.), I admit its harder to realize and I am fully aware of that.
    But nevertheless justt because it's harder, doesn't mean it's not possible at all! As everyone always says: "Skill>All", that's the same thing as if compairing Clicker and Non-Clicker. IF you have some decent Skill, you gonna be as good as everyone else if you do it right of course.
    As for my Hunter, I too klicked everything at the beginning, which was very bad, because you had no chance of getting your mouse away from your bars. We all know what problems this causes....
    But time after time I was able to compensate almost everything that was bad/hard as a clicker.
    I put about 4-5 abliities on some keys that are easy to reach (2= Deterrence, 3= Disengage, 4= Kill shot, F=My Kicking ability) and then i changed something veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery handy and epic so that I was able to do all the important stuff during combat ( I would even go so far to say that this is the ultimate solution ^^) : As most of you know, Hunter only have a single casting ability (except Marksman, but who is playing that anyway ) Cobra Shot. I just put that ability on my Mouse Wheel (both up and down) and i swear its goddamn awesome!!! Just when I know I'm gonna use it (and normaly you use it more than once in a row) I've got plenty of time to do everything else for a lot of seconds, I'm just casting anyway.
    And thats pretty it, I click all the rest, am still able to move with w,a,s,d and do a very maximum of dps possible as well. I'm not saying this because I'm on the top in my guilds dps-meter in most of the fights (and always have been, since WotLK) I say this because I nearly cleared (HC-Mode as well) every content since Wotlk, without beeing a nuissance because of my gameplay (most people didnn't even know i was a clicker) and I've always been logged in most of the Boss-fights there have been in the past, and I'm not talking about logs where i got a auper-advantage just to be logged, never got that anyway, but about very normal kills, or first kills. More than enough I've been in the top 25 in my specc for years now.
    I don't mention all this just to show you how awesome I am or to make you look like idiots (sry if someone puts it that way ), I'd rather encourage everyone who is a clicker and is getting bullied or whatever, to just get on his ass, make some minor gameplay improvements and rock the house!
    Because at the end it all comes to the amount of spells you were able to use in one fight. And it doesn't matter AT ALL, if you spam and buzzooor your keys on the keypad or if you just chose to be a mouse-raper! ^^ you can just buzzor your mouse the same way someone else buzzors his or her keys, just make sure to klick on the right spell :P (or in my case: "buzzor" the mouse wheel as well)

    To make it short and clear: It's not important if you click or use keys, just find your personal and most effective way to deal with any situation and be good at it!!!



    PS: If you're a very bad player, forget everything I said, you wouldn't REALLY understand anyway

  5. #45
    "Successful" is a pretty relative term in this thread. We play an MMO, a game where most of the prestige (aka success) is defined by either your guild GROUP or your arena TEAM.

    To answer the thread's question, I am sure there are people out there who are downing heroic SoO bosses who click with the standard UI. However, there is a good chance they are getting carried in some way, shape, or form by their guild/arena team, because someone in the exact same gear and exact same knowledge of fights/class/mechanics who actually uses keybinds is going to be a better player 99.99% of the time.

    If you took a poll of all the tops guilds in the world and all the rank 1 arena players, I think extremely few of them would be clicking much at all, and almost none of them would be a "clicker" (someone who clicks basically everything).

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    As a tank, I feel pretty crappy when I see images of other UIs, ones that look highly complex but I bet pretty helpful. I am also a clicker as melee (only when I play a ranged char I go with keybinds, go figure), but I do fairly well as a tank (right now Wave 32 on Endless with my DK). When I heal I don't click, but I still use the standard raid frames and that's where I heal. Am I alone in the world or are there more HC raiders who use the standard Blizzard UI and are ok with it?
    I use the standard UI, I find no reason what so ever to use anything else. Though I'm not a full clicker.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanfallah View Post

    To make it short and clear: It's not important if you click or use keys, just find your personal and most effective way to deal with any situation and be good at it!!!



    PS: If you're a very bad player, forget everything I said, you wouldn't REALLY understand anyway
    it's important, maybe not that important in pve but in pvp for sure

    but still keybinds > click, if u are a clicker try to keybind stuff u'll do 100% better for sure
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Oh, God, Xperl! I remember those days haha.

    Have you checked out ElvUI? Much cleaner, more minimilastic, nicer UI IMO. To each his own, but it's worth checking out.
    Oh I have, but I dunno. I've had Xperl since Vanilla (or very early TBC, can't remember) and I'm very fond of it. Tried ElvUI but it wasn't really my style.

    Thanks for the friendly tip though!
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    It is muscle memory. I haven't played WoW in a year. Give me an empty screen with all my spells keybinded and I'l be able to play perfectly within 10 mins. And 9 mins of those would be getting used to moving around again with my mouse.
    Same for clicking. I know the movements for my keys in relative position without keeping too much of an eye.

    I've clicked and had no problem as a dps, healer, and tank in heroic content. People saying you CAN'T click there were just not good enough themselves to do it. I find it preferable to keybinding and I've tried to keybind for weeks on end at times only to return to clicking because keybinding gave 0 improvement and was just less comfortable.

    If you are happy clicking stay clicking. I didn't have problems in pvp as a clicker (not my thing but I got 1.9k easy enough when I did), I never had problems raiding as a clicker, and the only outside scenario that I felt the need to use temp keybinds was hexos in brawlers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #50
    Well, like I said, I did 32 waves as tank on Endless with very little time invested on it, and with better reforging I think I can do better. My only problem is that I manually click the mobs and then taunt them. I do use Tab from time to time but I find it less reliable since I don't which mob it'll target. Any advice on this?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    it's important, maybe not that important in pve but in pvp for sure
    Sry I forgot to mention that: I personally don't play PvP, but i can guarantee that clicking is really bad there, just because PvE is predictable doesn't mean PvP is as well, and it's definately not!

    So my previous Post only counts in PvE-Fights

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Tanking is the "simplest" role there is IMO (I tanked in a raiding environment from Kara to Firelands). While it requires more responsibility than say a DPS role, it's quite simple compared to healing or dps.

    What do you consider "successful"? PG wouldn't really be a good basis for this IMO.

    While I never condone clicking/keyboard turning for optimum performance, I had a Druid healer in my old guild who didn't use a mouse. She had everything keybound and played her keyboard like a piano. If I hadn't seen how well she performed in 10/25m HM raiding environments, I would have called bullshit. But she did it very successfully.
    I've tanked, healed, and dps'd with main characters through multiple raiding tiers. Dps always felt the easiest role for me, healing deffo the toughest, tanking slightly easier than healing with a bit more resposibility. I healed fairly well though (but as healer I keybind 90% of the spells, I only click CDs and PoM for some weird reason lol). I also think Endless PG is quite a good basis for anything, I certainly find Endless way tougher than normal raiding, and on par with some heroic encounters (depends which wave).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    it's important, maybe not that important in pve but in pvp for sure

    but still keybinds > click, if u are a clicker try to keybind stuff u'll do 100% better for sure
    I don't do PvP, its part of the game I stay far away from

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Why over-complicate your life with remembering which key does what?

    I've always clicked and I've been relatively successful (when I played).
    What?? Do you have to remember where the C is every time you want to type it? The F? the A? No. Muscle memory works for everything, it works for ability keybinds too. Why over-complicate your life with remembering which ability you need to click is on what part of your screen?

    Any clicker gone keybinder (that didn't give up 2 hours in, and actually committed to changing) will tell you they play far better with keybinds. I'm sure I would too, if I could remember when I clicked - and I definitely did in my early, early WoW days. If you don't keybind, there are just a very few possible reasons why you don't, all of them being along the lines of: "I don't care"/ "I don't want to take the time to learn"/etc. Arguing that it competes with keybinding will just make you look silly by anyone who uses keybinds. Doesn't mean I care that you click, or that it affects me at all, but I certainly won't be doing any progression raiding with you. Nothing wrong with that, though, it's certainly not everyone's thing.

    And you don't need a single addon to fully bind your abilities, Blizzard provides all of what's necessary for that. It may not be the best functionality for actually assigning the binds, but it works.

    I would like to say it's funny, and not surprising in the least, how almost immediately this thread devolved into clicking vs. keybinding.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    Well, like I said, I did 32 waves as tank on Endless with very little time invested on it, and with better reforging I think I can do better. My only problem is that I manually click the mobs and then taunt them. I do use Tab from time to time but I find it less reliable since I don't which mob it'll target. Any advice on this?
    Bind the taunt. Then bind everything else, 32 waves suddenly becomes 64.

  15. #55
    I'm clicking my flask, hope that counts.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    What?? Do you have to remember where the C is every time you want to type it? The F? the A? No. Muscle memory works for everything, it works for ability keybinds too. Why over-complicate your life with remembering which ability you need to click is on what part of your screen?

    Any clicker gone keybinder (that didn't give up 2 hours in, and actually committed to changing) will tell you they play far better with keybinds. I'm sure I would too, if I could remember when I clicked - and I definitely did in my early, early WoW days. If you don't keybind, there are just a very few possible reasons why you don't, all of them being along the lines of: "I don't care"/ "I don't want to take the time to learn"/etc. Arguing that it competes with keybinding will just make you look silly by anyone who uses keybinds. Doesn't mean I care that you click, or that it affects me at all, but I certainly won't be doing any progression raiding with you. Nothing wrong with that, though, it's certainly not everyone's thing.

    And you don't need a single addon to fully bind your abilities, Blizzard provides all of what's necessary for that. It may not be the best functionality for actually assigning the binds, but it works.

    I would like to say it's funny, and not surprising in the least, how almost immediately this thread devolved into clicking vs. keybinding.
    For me its kinda scary to change, I tried several times but I didn't commit to it, that's mostly because I am one of the people carrying my raid group, which is decent but not amazing, so I'm scared to make a drastic change and hurt the progression for the short term. I never have any issues moving on time, taunting on time, using CDs on time, etc. The only issues I have is AoE spread tanking (Horridon adds for example), but I think that has to do more with the class (DK) than clicking.

  17. #57
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    If your mouse is on your action bars all the time, you switch targets slower, and that means you're objectively worse. That's just a fact.

    That being said, I find clicking is least detrimental in tanking, mainly because of movement (which tanks do very little of, usually). Normally, I use my mouse to turn, but other than that, I'm using QWE to move, with Q and E set as strafe (I think default it's turn), and using my mouse to do all my turning. If I was a clicker, I would literally have to keyboard turn out of everything, and I think that's the biggest sin in WoW ever, even in PvE. You simply can't react as quick keyboard turning. It's less of an issue for tanks like I said because they're making really small, really controlled movements if they're moving at all, but yeah.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    For me its kinda scary to change, I tried several times but I didn't commit to it, that's mostly because I am one of the people carrying my raid group, which is decent but not amazing, so I'm scared to make a drastic change and hurt the progression for the short term. I never have any issues moving on time, taunting on time, using CDs on time, etc. The only issues I have is AoE spread tanking (Horridon adds for example), but I think that has to do more with the class (DK) than clicking.
    Just do it over a weekend, or whenever you aren't raiding. Do it a few abilities at a time as other people mentioned in the thread. I imagine DKs are probably one of the more "limited" AoE tankers, especially when the adds come at you from all over the fucking place. But adding clicking into that equation certainly would not help.

    Bind a few abilities, go tank a heroic. Force yourself to use them. If you have to, put them on an action bar you don't use, bind them, and hide the bar. Just make sure they aren't all super-critical abilities that will make you go into a panic. Just pick a few at a time, one important one, a few lesser used ones, whatever.
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  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    For me its kinda scary to change, I tried several times but I didn't commit to it, that's mostly because I am one of the people carrying my raid group, which is decent but not amazing, so I'm scared to make a drastic change and hurt the progression for the short term. I never have any issues moving on time, taunting on time, using CDs on time, etc. The only issues I have is AoE spread tanking (Horridon adds for example), but I think that has to do more with the class (DK) than clicking.
    Then don't change. You CAN click and keep up with probably 99% of the players on mmochampion no problem. Clicking is not what holds you back if you are capable at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  20. #60
    We have a 3rd tank in our guild that is a clicker, though we are slowly teaching her things to keybind in terms of defensive CDs. While she isn't exactly bad (A little off in her class knowledge, but was able to straighten it out IE Prot Paladin going for Parry/dodge gear) she does limit herself in movements we have noticed because of clicking. The most notable time is during the Norushen encounter and she is in the tank solo challenge. Not once has she made it out of their alive.

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