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  1. #161
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berri View Post
    Why would you handicap yourself into being a clicker when you can spend about 1 hour and learn to pull off a more efficient rotation by using keybinds? I don't care how quickly you click, you can't pull off an optimised rotation if you have to rely on mouse travel time.

    Imo UI has very little to do with whether you are a clicker or a presser and very much to do with having all the information you need about your surroundings / auras / resources available as naturally and effortlessly as possible.

    Lots of people use the default UI, and that's because it's completely fine for almost all scenarios.
    People like you are why it's hard to take keybinder arguments seriously. There's this thing called a GCD, it's tied into most abilities you use, and means you have plenty of time to 'travel' to the next key.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #162
    High Overlord M00's Avatar
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    I've become so dependant on my Naga keybinds that I can't play with any other mouse.

  3. #163
    Why anyone would click anything is beyond me. I think the only thing I click is my flask. Why do 1 thing at once when you can do 2. I main a Brewmaster, and I can't imagine clicking anything on there, or on any other character tbh. Get a Razer Naga. Binds 1-12, Shift 1-12, F1-F6~. That right there is 30 Binds, which is more than enough for any class, and all right at your finger tips. Nevermind if You wanna bind Ctrl 1-12 and Alt 1-12. You have an INSANE amount right there (50+). Anyone that doesn't bind is at a clear disadvantage, not saying it isn't doable, but it definitely isn't optimal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    How does one click something while doing something like using a move that isn't on GCD or clicking an extra action button or something (even though most people that bind have their extra button bound anyway, or at least I do).

    - - - Updated - - -

    What if I was a clicker and needed to guard in less than a second, and didn't have enough chi, how could someone jab/keg smash AND hit guard in less than a second, it isn't possible.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by fiestatastic View Post
    Destruction warlock in my raid is a 100% clicker, like he clicks every single spell on his screen from the cast bar. He does good dps still, but on heroic progression he definitely dies the most to mechanics and is definitely not someone we'd put in charge of handling an important mechanic. However, he's still good, really knows destruction and is consistently above 250k for single target fights and above 350-400k on heavy aoe fights like garrosh (500 to as much as 800k on the pull). I'd imagine he'd be incredible though if he played with keybinds instead, but he tried and didn't like it and said he played worse.
    Yeah, but that's the problem. You are able to do good dps, even able to play really good. But when it comes to progress and real troubles you are losing compared to non-clickers

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanfallah View Post
    Guess what I did all those years
    But I think we are a dying species, killed by the harsh and overwhelming majority of Keybinders, who tells us that you HAVE to play the game the same way as most of them do....and if you don't, your just not competitive or even worse.....
    Nah, I just think they're the vocal majority. It's easier to say "lol dat sux!" than to actually have a good discussion about the trade-off of what the player feels is right vs. playing absolutely optimal.
    And that is the root of the problem I think: Playing optimally. You don't HAVE to play optimally, but by not doing so people need to realize there's a ceiling they will eventually hit in what they can accomplish. I just think the vocal majority pulls this ceiling down too much in order to justify their own simple baseless argument.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Because it takes a whole 2-3 days to get used to it. Wouldn't wanna spend 3 nights getting used to something that makes the entire game twice as easy would we.
    I'm pretty sure he meant clickers are the handicaps.

  7. #167
    One of our better DDs (an enhancement shaman) does click all of his spells. He does very good DPS, but the downside is: He dies a lot to mechanics that require fast reactions or fast movement. In those cases, if he survives, his DPS takes a big hit. Though we're not really a progress-oriented raidgroup, just having killed Garrosh nh.

    For me personally: I click almost nothing with the mouse. Exceptions exist, but I try to keep them rare. It was very helpful when I was raidleader of a 25 man group. It helped focus on timers / say stuff coming up in the voice etc.
    Nowadays, I still prefer to put spells on keybinds. Especially important (as a monk dd) are for me defensive cooldowns, so I can get them up asap when needed, and TeB, because it's a 15 second buff, and many trinket procs last for only 10 seconds, so I can maximize the uptime of TeB during those procs.
    On the other hand: When something itches, I can scratch without dropping in DPS. I can drink and eat something in the middle of the tries, without an impact on the DPS. And strafe helps getting out of stuff even with only one hand on the keyboard.
    Last edited by Forsta; 2013-10-08 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #168
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    May I ask fellow tanks, how do you target adds effeciently? Obviously you don't click them and then taunt, but pressing TAB doesn't always targets the correct add. Surely there is a solution I am missing.
    mouse over keybound taunt macro.

  9. #169
    I think its possible to be fairly successful while clicking, but I don't ever see a situation where the clicker wouldn't benefit from keybinding.
    I started out clicking. Then I moved to binding my main abilities. After that, I applied to a high end guild (top 100) that required good keybinds, so I made up a bunch of keybinds that I didn't use at the time just to show the that I binded. I ended up using most of those binds and it increased my performance.

    There are definite exceptions to the rule but 9 times out of 10 someone who keybinds will be flat out better at the game then someone who clicks. It's just more efficient.

    Now what I find really hard to believe, people who claim to be high end pvpers who claim to click AND keyboard turn. They keyboard turn part especially. To put it simple, I don't believe you.

  10. #170
    I for one have been clicking all my wow life except when im healing. Over the years you just know where to click without even looking since you know where the icons are of by heart. In the past ive probably the most aware out of the entire guild, also can say one of the lms on encounters where there is alot of movement.
    Its people preference at the end of the day and when ppl say why dont you keybind , its the same i would ask to people who bind every single button on their keyboard with useless abilities. there can't be that many keybinds in all of wow that you need an entire keyboard for.
    Same can be said for mouse sens and screen res as well.

  11. #171
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    People like you are why it's hard to take keybinder arguments seriously. There's this thing called a GCD, it's tied into most abilities you use, and means you have plenty of time to 'travel' to the next key.
    People like you are why it's hard to take clickers seriously! There is this thing called off the GCD abilities that you can activate and use while queuing up your gcd abilities and you can't do that if you are "traveling" to the next gcd spell key.

    Nice argument thanks for providing it!

    As well how would a clicker say use a mouse over macro? click the macro and then click the target? that defeats the purpose... EG Riposte/Veng is about to fall off and I'm off tanking what I do is continue my rotation while placing mouse over thank... hit mouse over intervene macro and keep going on my way. How would a clicker do this? Or sword and board procs while shield block is up and heroic leap is up...naturally you are going to hit SS but you also want to use leap as that is free dps off the GCD...how do you click all that and queue up revenge or dev while you are flying into he air already having hit ss?

    Clicking was not as much of a hindrance in the past with the GCD but with so many abilities off the GCD it's just compounded the inefficiency of it!
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-10-08 at 01:30 PM.

  12. #172
    Just because some people click, keyboard turn and use a default UI and are seemingly doing fine it doesn't mean they are being optimal. I honestly don't have a problem with clickers/keyboard turners until it causes them to make mistakes, such as tanks who can play fine but when something unexpected happens they can't react quick enough to do anything about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    People like you are why it's hard to take keybinder arguments seriously. There's this thing called a GCD, it's tied into most abilities you use, and means you have plenty of time to 'travel' to the next key.
    Just because there is a GCD it doesn't mean keybinds won't let you cast things faster. If you just click every time the GCD ticks around chances are you're delaying everything by a good 0.1-0.2 seconds. If you mash keybinds then you'll get GCDs off faster allowing for more overall throughput per fight.

  13. #173
    Agree 100% there that keyboard turners + good players dont match up. Its 100% if ppl claim to be a keybaord turner and a decent pvper

  14. #174
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    I used to click when I first started playing, using a healing addon (of doom) called Healium.

    It was awful.

    I saw a significant improvement in my gameplay when I started using keybinds, and then once again I started using mouseovers.

    I can't imagine healing as a clicker. Tanking? Maybe. Dps? Mayyyybe.

    But to me it just seems so foreign and difficult.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    People like you are why it's hard to take keybinder arguments seriously. There's this thing called a GCD, it's tied into most abilities you use, and means you have plenty of time to 'travel' to the next key.
    Try to move around as quickly as a keybinder. You simply cannot. Keybinder can still mash keys on the fly while having full control of their character and camera using the mouse.
    You have to use your mouse to click spells and move with keys. You're control is slowed way down and lose control of camera.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    People like you are why it's hard to take clickers seriously! There is this thing called off the GCD abilities that you can activate and use while queing up your gcd abilities and you can't do that if you are "traveling" to the next gcd spell key.

    Nice argument thanks for providing it!
    You have a somewhat valid point. GCD will help you out inbetween clicking spells but that's not always going to be the case. Not every spell is on the GCD. But for the sake of argument lets say all your spells are on the GCD. Even in that case, you spend the majority of the fight staring at your action bars so you can click the correct spell. Using keybindings allows you to know which spells you're casting without even looking at your action bars which in turn means you can be more readily aware of fight mechanics to avoid/focus on.

    Also, this is coming from someone who clicked well into BC raiding and arena play then switched to keybindings after a friend convinced me to try them out. It took a couple days to get really comfortable but once I did I never went back to clicking.
    Quote Originally Posted by DETdream View Post
    Just enjoy the game folks, they're not making it for you specifically. When you were playing Super Mario Bros. you learned to jump over piranha plants, you didn't complain until they removed the damn thing.

  17. #177
    Bloodsail Admiral zenga's Avatar
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    Why does someone play the piano with his fingers instead of tapping on the keys with a wooden stick? Because you can simply do more and faster combinations while playing with your hands.

  18. #178
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Just because there is a GCD it doesn't mean keybinds won't let you cast things faster. If you just click every time the GCD ticks around chances are you're delaying everything by a good 0.1-0.2 seconds. If you mash keybinds then you'll get GCDs off faster allowing for more overall throughput per fight.
    Once again proving you guys lack game understanding. This is absolutely untrue as there is a small queue duration for next spell that works through both clicking and keybinding, meaning you will get the same speed off.

    @off gcd comments, 2 answers - macros can be used to optimize and you will lose very little compared to other mistakes keybinders of lower skill level make anyway (which I don't see you all optimizing).

    @Panicked, no, not at all. Jumps + auto run + spellqueue means on every SINGLE fight bar hexos you can keep up with a keybinder if you know how to play.

    @not looking at spells, same. clicking has muscle memory too, I don't look at my spells once the fight has begun because I know where they are and I know my mouse movements.

    To clarify I'm not saying clicking is BETTER, I'm just saying if you take full advantage the difference when keybinding is so miniscule noone I've seen posting so far has any real evidence to say that it's a massive increase in potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #179
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indstructble12 View Post
    You have a somewhat valid point. GCD will help you out inbetween clicking spells but that's not always going to be the case. Not every spell is on the GCD. But for the sake of argument lets say all your spells are on the GCD. Even in that case, you spend the majority of the fight staring at your action bars so you can click the correct spell. Using keybindings allows you to know which spells you're casting without even looking at your action bars which in turn means you can be more readily aware of fight mechanics to avoid/focus on.

    Also, this is coming from someone who clicked well into BC raiding and arena play then switched to keybindings after a friend convinced me to try them out. It took a couple days to get really comfortable but once I did I never went back to clicking.
    You may want to re-read my post What you are saying is what I was arguing.

    As for clicking while looking at actions bars... It would be impossible for me to do so ... Where would I click on my UI?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post

    @off gcd comments, 2 answers - macros can be used to optimize and you will lose very little compared to other mistakes keybinders of lower skill level make anyway (which I don't see you all optimizing)..
    How are you going to make a macro for off GCD abilities with all of your spells and still be functional?

    Lets look at heroic strike shall we!

    so your saying when ultimatum procs a clicker will have a macro for

    dev+HS
    SS+HS
    Rev+HS
    S.block+HS
    s.Bar +Hs
    demo shout + HS
    You see where this is going right?
    Now lets toss in cleave as another option for ultimatum procs if there is multiple adds

    Now add another string of macros for heroic leap, pummel, taunt...

    Have fun with those macros while all I do is cast my reg rotation and tap 2, or ctrlE, or v, or ctrl` and continue my way no matter what other spells I need to use. O and I can do that while strafing and moving my camera angle at teh same time... CRAZY talk I tell ya!

  20. #180
    I click bear hug as a tank, but lets face it I think the only fight this tier its useful on is galakas to break the fracture on the npcs, and honestly typhoon does the same thing and I can do it from like 30 yards away.

    Other than that I don't see why you'd ever want to click. Hell half the time I find myself wishing I had more fingers to use all these abilities tanks have that are off the global CD now, especially when I'm like "OH SHIT MY LEGENDARY PROCED!"

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