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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I feel sorry for your entire guild if you go around talking to them like this. Do you guys have a go at people who use the mouse with their left hand too? Because it inferior to the almighty right hand of godliness?
    I'm a heroic progression raider... so, I don't talk to them like this, because they wouldn't be able to compete and they would be dying to random things due to not being able to react fast enough - or they'd survive just fine but their damage would drop to nothing because they had to mouse turn, and they simply wouldn't make it through the trial period. If they don't make it, they don't make it, I don't chastise them about being a clicker - they just didn't make it. I was a clicker in early WoW too, so I've experienced both quite well. It's simply mechanically impossible to play as well, react as fast, etc. as a clicker versus a keybinder. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's reality. It's simply not possible to click your abilities and play at your best, end of story. Left and right handedness has absolutely nothing to do with anything here whatsoever.
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  2. #302
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    I'm a heroic progression raider... so, I don't talk to them like this, because they wouldn't be able to compete and they would be dying to random things due to not being able to react fast enough - or they'd survive just fine but their damage would drop to nothing because they had to mouse turn, and they simply wouldn't make it through the trial period. If they don't make it, they don't make it, I don't chastise them about being a clicker - they just didn't make it. I was a clicker in early WoW too, so I've experienced both quite well. It's simply mechanically impossible to play as well, react as fast, etc. as a clicker versus a keybinder. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's reality. It's simply not possible to click your abilities and play at your best, end of story. Left and right handedness has absolutely nothing to do with anything here whatsoever.
    But no one asked if you could play your best and do the content.

    They asked if anyone is not "doing their best" in the form of clicking instead of keybinding and also successfully downing the bosses.

    And lots of people are doing exactly that. you can clear the content just fine if you click. No worries, no muss and no fuss. Why you'd want to do the heroic raiding thing in the first place given how tedious it all gets is a bit of a mystery to me personally, but it's obvious that some people are just dandy raiding and clicking.

    I'll also add again that if you are reacting in pve you are doing it wrong. There is a difference to the upside towards keybinding, absolutely no question but that difference is invariably massively overblown by posters in an attempt to prove their point.
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  3. #303
    What i'm wondering.

    How do you keep a decent eye on Timers/Dots/Auras/Environment while mousing over to every ability?

    Honest question.

    Also the thread said with standard blizz ui and click, does that mean no external addons of any kind? or just no actionbar/unit frame changes?
    Last edited by Tryana; 2013-10-09 at 12:45 PM.
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  4. #304
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    What i'm wondering.

    How do you keep a decent eye on Timers/Dots/Auras/Environment while mousing over to every ability?

    Honest question.
    Same way a keybinder does, you don't need to babysit your mouse movements if you've used it for a few hours. Do you watch where you are sending your mouse normally?
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  5. #305
    I click my mount, buffs and sometimes cooldowns, if that counts. I heal with the default blizzard UI, but I used Shadowed Unit Frames for myself and target. If it works for you, then who can really argue? I'm not sure there's really a case that clicking is better, but it's all about muscle memory and reflexes. You can only click every 1-1.5 seconds anyway, so if you can move your mouse and are that accurate, assuming it doesn't hinder your movement, I guess good for you. Personally, I use my mouse to move the camera around almost constantly, so I can't be moving it down to the action bar every second. I do a lot of circle strafing around bosses, so I'm not sure how would you do that and stay productive while clicking.
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  6. #306
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Tryana;22784730]What i'm wondering.

    How do you keep a decent eye on Timers/Dots/Auras/Environment while mousing over to every ability?

    Honest question.
    [quote]

    Why would you be looking at your mousepointer all the time? #

    honest question.
    Also the thread said with standard blizz ui and click, does that mean no external addons of any kind? or just no actionbar/unit frame changes?
    Looks like it.
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  7. #307
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    I use a hybrid method, most important keys are hot-keyed, stuff like mounts, pets and longer CDs I click.
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  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I'll also add again that if you are reacting in pve you are doing it wrong.
    Ridiculous. PvE may be fairly scripted, but things will never always go perfectly right. Sometimes, unexpected things happen, and reacting to those things is exactly what you do. Sometimes, you as a human being, space out for a moment and forget an upcoming mechanic, and reacting to it is then exactly what you do.

    My argument was purely against people who claim that clicking allows a player equal potential skill against a player who keybinds. They are wrong. I have nothing against clickers, I have nothing against casual players, or people who don't do heroic raiding. I have nothing against players who don't care to acquire that skill. But I won't spend my limited progression raiding time with them making mistakes due to an inferior playstyle when there's nothing stopping them from playing better.
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  9. #309
    This whole thread just reeks of people unwilling to change or improve for the better, defending clicking as if we all haven't used it before, moved on from it and realized it's a very inferior way to play the game in many aspects. If you want to play as a clicker, fine, go ahead, but please do not bother attempting to make a post about how you've cleared content as a clicker, topped the meter as a clicker, or done any achievement as a clicker, as if it even has any context or usefulness.

    I'd essentially argue clickers are most likely playing against clickers, so the playing field is 'even'. I'd love to see a rogue clicking Sub spec and trying to even compete with me, it would be laughable.

  10. #310
    Don't lie to yourself. You might be doing "good" with clicking, but fact remains, keybinds will ALWAYS be faster than clicking.

    It's not about clicking being bad, it's about keybinds being better.

    As somebody already said: Why handicap yourself on purpose?
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  11. #311
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Don't lie to yourself. You might be doing "good" with clicking, but fact remains, keybinds will ALWAYS be faster than clicking.

    It's not about clicking being bad, it's about keybinds being better.

    As somebody already said: Why handicap yourself on purpose?
    While we're at it lets make sure everyone is playing in correct posture on a machine that plays perfectly, have 0 distractions at any point, only play right handed with a XX" monitor etc. etc. etc.

    Or you could all realize the benefit you gain from keybinding is so miniscule basically ANY change you make will lead to a larger performance increase, and for some you simply won't notice it.

    I don't know if you're all just such bad players with a mouse or what? You'd all struggle with games that require more mouse use it seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    While we're at it lets make sure everyone is playing in correct posture on a machine that plays perfectly, have 0 distractions at any point, only play right handed with a XX" monitor etc. etc. etc.

    Or you could all realize the benefit you gain from keybinding is so miniscule basically ANY change you make will lead to a larger performance increase, and for some you simply won't notice it.

    I don't know if you're all just such bad players with a mouse or what? You'd all struggle with games that require more mouse use it seems.
    This is rich, first you think switching from clicking to keybinding is miniscule (you haven't even went through the process), and then you make the assumption we're the bad players with the mouse, as if being 'skillful' with a mouse will get you anywhere in WoW. I'm willing to bet your progress reflects your clicking, like many others. I'd love to see you prove me wrong with something of value or worth but I doubt you can.

  13. #313
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T18Z View Post
    This is rich, first you think switching from clicking to keybinding is miniscule, and then you make the assumption we're the bad players with the mouse, as if being 'skillful' with a mouse will get you anywhere. I'm willing to bet your progress reflects your clicking, like many others.
    My progress reflects my social attitude to the game, but I have raided heroic pre-nerfs and had top 10 ranks along with (until literally getting 0 real upgrades so far this patch), ranking most fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    While we're at it lets make sure everyone is playing in correct posture on a machine that plays perfectly, have 0 distractions at any point, only play right handed with a XX" monitor etc. etc. etc.
    None of these things really matter at all in comparison to keybinding. And really, the "right handed" thing again? Nobody can really take you serious with arguments like that. A larger monitor/larger resolution can help for more spatial awareness, and a steady-FPS capable PC is of course better than playing at 5 FPS, but those aren't things that everyone can afford. ANYONE can keybind. It costs you nothing but a few sessions of learning and adjusting.

    It has nothing to do with being bad or slow with the mouse, you have two input devices in front of you, you should be fully utilizing both.
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  15. #315
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    None of these things really matter at all in comparison to keybinding. And really, the "right handed" thing again? Nobody can really take you serious with arguments like that. A larger monitor/larger resolution can help for more spatial awareness, and a steady-FPS capable PC is of course better than playing at 5 FPS, but those aren't things that everyone can afford. ANYONE can keybind. It costs you nothing but a few sessions of learning and adjusting.

    It has nothing to do with being bad or slow with the mouse, you have two input devices in front of you, you should be fully utilizing both.
    Yeah, keyboard can be used to do any pve movement you require (before someone mentions keyboard turning again I will remind strafe keys are there by default!), bar hexos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  16. #316
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    I honestly don't understand how anyone can end up clicking. I have been playing MMOs for almost 10 years now and there was always 1,2,3,4,5 etc on any and all default action bars regardless of game. What person would see 10 buttons with numbers on them and think to themselves: hmm, I better hover my mouse over those and click the numbers instead of actually pressing the numbers on my keyboard.

    It makes no sense!!

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Yeah, keyboard can be used to do any pve movement you require (before someone mentions keyboard turning again I will remind strafe keys are there by default!), bar hexos.
    What is your point? I could press all the buttons on my keyboard with chopsticks and do everything required. Does that mean it's good to do? Keyboard turning is pathetically slow. Strafing alone is not good enough if you also have to reorient your camera or your characters facing direction, which is time spent mouse turning and not clicking abilities. While I am mouse turning and still using abilities.
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  18. #318
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    What is your point? I could press all the buttons on my keyboard with chopsticks and do everything required. Does that mean it's good to do? Keyboard turning is pathetically slow. Strafing alone is not good enough if you also have to reorient your camera or your characters facing direction, which is time spent mouse turning and not clicking abilities. While I am mouse turning and still using abilities.
    Welcome to 15 pages ago, it's called GCD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #319
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    "I can click my abilities faster than you can two-hit button combos"

    Funniest thing I have read in a long, long, long time. I have 4 action bars filled with abilities and macros. I know all the of the skills and can turn my action bars off and it wouldn't matter. I still know where everything is. Anyone who states something like the above... is not all that intelligent or any good at this game or any game for that matter.

    The fact that people still try to argue that Clicking is just as good as keybinding, just shows how people will argue anything to make themselves feel better about what they "believe", whether its right or wrong. People these days seem to have a problem with needing to enable themselves, as opposed to learning.
    Last edited by dyzz; 2013-10-09 at 02:39 PM.

  20. #320
    I doubt your rankings greatly, and your performance/progression. If you do somehow manage to rank, I'm willing to bet it's as an obscure unused spec with a low population among raiders.

    You've essentially shown me nothing but you're too stubborn to admit you're playing an inferior setup. Also, for being a smartass with the GCD comment, I'll remind you some classes have reduced GCD, and GCD is reduced by certain haste effects. Tell me, how do you counterspell a mob, while casting combustion and then immediately spreading it as a clicker? Here's a tip: you do it very slowly and poorly, and there's many situations which match that.
    Last edited by T18Z; 2013-10-09 at 02:42 PM.

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