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  1. #341
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leandros View Post
    *raises hand*

    Been a clicker since the start, and once I learned how to play my class it was never a problem. Sure, i may do 3 or 5% less dps than the people who don't click, but that's my playstyle and that's how I like to play.
    No... 3-5% worse in your guild MAYBE. You are doing a fuck ton less dps than what you could. Don't compare yourself to anyone but maybe the top guild on your server if they are at least top 300 world.

    ITT: People who want to be a competitive DPS in anything, who also click, in denial that them clicking almost everything has maybe a 5% decrease in overall DPS. Also... 5% isn't a small amount over the course of an entire fight. Imagine if all the other people in your entire raid could do 5% more DPS... you could do heroics, or the last boss on heroic. It's a big deal, and if anyone wants to be competitive/TRULY good at the game, then you wouldn't click at all (unless it's like a buff or a mount). Sorry if this is seen as mean, but it isn't mean if it doesn't offend you.
    Last edited by Klutzington; 2013-10-09 at 05:42 PM.

  2. #342
    Just so we're clear.. when we're talking about clickers we're talking about people who click everything. Keybinding your main abilities and clicking your CDs, etc, is a pretty big difference from pure clicking IMO.

    There's just so many situations where a clicker/keyboard turner won't be as efficient as someone who keybinds. High movement, multi target fights, where you're required to do things like interrupt while maintaining your DPS rotation, clickers will be at a disadvantage. Sure, you can say things like "I can make macros and click really fast and only be .5 seconds behind people who keybind" but those seconds add up. Throughout a fight it can add up to be several seconds of lost DPS uptime.

    You're basically just using one hand to handle everything, whereas keybinders use both.

  3. #343
    I used to be a clicker until I was introduced to my Razr Naga mouse. Haha. After that, I'll never use any other mouse

  4. #344
    Bloodsail Admiral Taurous's Avatar
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    I was a successful clicker in WotLK (compared to the rest of my guild >.>), but have since been using keybinds. I just find it easier. Plus I have this Logitch G600, might as well use the buttons.
    Last edited by Taurous; 2013-10-09 at 05:44 PM.

  5. #345
    To all the people claiming to be in world top 10 guilds while clicking, prove it.

    If you're a clicker you're going to get trashed by anybody not terrible who keybinds.

    If you're top dps or whatever in your guild and you click, your guild is terrible.

    If you think the GCD means it's ok to click because you have time between spells, you're terrible.

    @Raiju: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Raiju/advanced this you?

  6. #346
    hmm @ those who think long cooldowns can be clicked

    imagine you're the mt in naxx40 patchwerk: one of the hateful strike healers lags, hateful strike tank dies, mt eats hateful strike in addition to autoattack - that could be a split second you have to react (esp if main tank doesn't have naxx gear yet, iirc autoattacks were easy to heal but hateful strikes took a huge chunk of health and mt could easily die) - if mt had wall/ls keybound that wouldn't be a problem but if he was guild master and had to watch everyone else do their job he might not have the time to actually move his mouse over to his cooldowns and pop them in time.
    xD
    keybind everything ftw ^-^

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by xindralol View Post
    hmm @ those who think long cooldowns can be clicked

    imagine you're the mt in naxx40 patchwerk: one of the hateful strike healers lags, hateful strike tank dies, mt eats hateful strike in addition to autoattack - that could be a split second you have to react (esp if main tank doesn't have naxx gear yet, iirc autoattacks were easy to heal but hateful strikes took a huge chunk of health and mt could easily die) - if mt had wall/ls keybound that wouldn't be a problem but if he was guild master and had to watch everyone else do their job he might not have the time to actually move his mouse over to his cooldowns and pop them in time.
    xD
    keybind everything ftw ^-^
    Great example m8. Naxx 40 yeah sick m8 you must be one of the cool vanilla kids m8 yeah I remember raiding in vanilla m8 omg 4 horsemen fuck me right? Lol we're so old school and pro m8888888888888888888888

    No.

  8. #348
    Bloodsail Admiral Taurous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Great example m8. Naxx 40 yeah sick m8 you must be one of the cool vanilla kids m8 yeah I remember raiding in vanilla m8 omg 4 horsemen fuck me right? Lol we're so old school and pro m8888888888888888888888

    No.
    That made my head hurt.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Great example m8. Naxx 40 yeah sick m8 you must be one of the cool vanilla kids m8 yeah I remember raiding in vanilla m8 omg 4 horsemen fuck me right? Lol we're so old school and pro m8888888888888888888888

    No.
    hmm I didn't mean to brag here, but I haven't raided in years so if you have a better example go tell us : )

  10. #350
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xindralol View Post
    hmm I didn't mean to brag here, but I haven't raided in years so if you have a better example go tell us : )
    best example I can think of :

    you hit shield slam and it's a crit
    *ultimatum procs* free cast HS off GCD ready
    *Parry the mob at the same time* Revenge now off cd
    BOTH abilities are available and can both be cast at the exact same time as HS is off the GCD

    Can a clicker activate both as fast as a keybinder? if the answer is no then clicking is less efficient even if it was just this scenarion (and its not) then key binding is superior. Before you mention macros think of how many macros you need for all the combinations HS can be paired with depending on the ability CD's and times that by 2 as you could also use cleave for an ultimatum proc. Where a keybinder presses 2 keys in rapid sucession and moves on.

    As stated before you can do just fine in your own personal view clicking however there should be no argument that keybinding is superior to clicking overall.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    best example I can think of :

    you hit shield slam and it's a crit
    *ultimatum procs* free cast HS off GCD ready
    *Parry the mob at the same time* Revenge now off cd
    BOTH abilities are available and can both be cast at the exact same time as HS is off the GCD

    Can a clicker activate both as fast as a keybinder? if the answer is no then clicking is less efficient even if it was just this scenarion (and its not) then key binding is superior. Before you mention macros think of how many macros you need for all the combinations HS can be paired with depending on the ability CD's and times that by 2 as you could also use cleave for an ultimatum proc. Where a keybinder presses 2 keys in rapid sucession and moves on.

    As stated before you can do just fine in your own personal view clicking however there should be no argument that keybinding is superior to clicking overall.
    even if clickers could do as good dps as keybinders, they loose focus on fight, ability do use defensive cds instantly.. healthstones, shields, iceblocks and deterrances. how can they follow procs with 1 eye while checking out icons with other? what about fire under their feet? dead dps does 0 damage. clickers NEVER will compete with keybinds. noone really cares about your tunnel vision dps if you can't complete EVERY fight mehanics.
    and what about extra action button? spoils of pandaria for example? stoppimg dps for 3 globals e ery time?

    if anyone thinks that clickers can compete with keybinders in hc raiding, they dont know sh*t about raiding.
    as a rl i am not interested in "viable", i care about min-max. i would NEVER recruit a clicker.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    best example I can think of :

    you hit shield slam and it's a crit
    *ultimatum procs* free cast HS off GCD ready
    *Parry the mob at the same time* Revenge now off cd
    BOTH abilities are available and can both be cast at the exact same time as HS is off the GCD

    Can a clicker activate both as fast as a keybinder? if the answer is no then clicking is less efficient even if it was just this scenarion (and its not) then key binding is superior. Before you mention macros think of how many macros you need for all the combinations HS can be paired with depending on the ability CD's and times that by 2 as you could also use cleave for an ultimatum proc. Where a keybinder presses 2 keys in rapid sucession and moves on.

    As stated before you can do just fine in your own personal view clicking however there should be no argument that keybinding is superior to clicking overall.
    Any clicker that plans out their abilities can put stuff like that on 1-7 buttons or something, which can easily be pressed with your fingers.
    Anything which doesn't have a GCD and is gonna be used should be there if you're a clicker.

    @Paladzins - Being a clicker generally doesn't mean you click every single one of your spells. You still got 1-9 that can be pressed by fingers. Also the Tab key switches between targets, no clicking or keybinding required for that. Swapping targets shouldn't be a prob even if you're a clicker. Also assuming that clickers can't watch their procs at the same time they need to react to something happening in game is just a bad assumption. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean there's not other people that can do it. You may not be used to clicking, clickers have probably been clicking for a while now, they can easily move their mouse to the required button and click it without watching. (Speaking from experience).

    When thinking about it, keybinds and such may seem easier, doing everything with 1 hand instead of moving around your mouse. But humans are pretty cool. Some humans manage to learn stuff that is hard for others. They may even excell on it and be great, weird huh?
    Last edited by Sanktas; 2013-10-09 at 11:51 PM.

  13. #353
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Are people who are "clickers" literally clicking everything? Or is it a mix? If it is literally everything, it is just completely lost me why you are not at least using 1-5 and SHIFT + 1-5. Those are not hard buttons to use. Almost everyone would benefit greatly from just those 10 simple keys, but clickers are just completely obstinate and unwilling to go through the growing pains of a superior playstyle, so they give up and stick with the mediocre one and claim it's more effective. But it's like arguing with a wall.
    Look! Words!

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by xiic View Post
    Treckie used to click! But no, I don't know any heroic raiders who click anything but maybe pots.
    I'd click Lust, no reason to waste a perfectly good attempt because I press the wrong button once. But I don't play anything with a lust.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Are people who are "clickers" literally clicking everything? Or is it a mix? If it is literally everything, it is just completely lost me why you are not at least using 1-5 and SHIFT + 1-5. Those are not hard buttons to use. Almost everyone would benefit greatly from just those 10 simple keys, but clickers are just completely obstinate and unwilling to go through the growing pains of a superior playstyle, so they give up and stick with the mediocre one and claim it's more effective. But it's like arguing with a wall.
    Its a mix, on my priest I press 1-8 and click the rest, the only common ability I click is PoM, everything else I click are big cds (Lightwell, Hymn, GS). On my blood DK I click more stuff, especially the Outbreak/DS/RS/HS rotation. I never have issues moving on time, taunting on time (aside of problematic targets, like I said), pulling decent dps as a tank, timing cds according to incoming mechanics, etc.

  16. #356
    [QUOTE=Injin;22784791][QUOTE=Tryana;22784730]What i'm wondering.

    How do you keep a decent eye on Timers/Dots/Auras/Environment while mousing over to every ability?

    Honest question.

    Why would you be looking at your mousepointer all the time? #

    honest question.


    Looks like it.
    Well probaly to see where its at o.o
    I have no idea tbh that's why i asked. I use a bunch of mouseover macros so my mouse is always flying across the screen.

    How does one use mouseover macros while clicking?
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  17. #357
    I primarily play healers, so clicking is kind of ingrained in my brain, like playing whack-a-mole with unit frames through Clique. Not with the standard Blizzard unit frames, mind you, since the way they're laid out just doesn't do it for me, and on top of that I just don't find them aesthetically pleasing. Not sure if that actually counts as being a clicker, though. Aside from clicking unit frames for targeted heals, I've got all my other abilities I use with some regularity bound to my number keys, though my hands prefer it if I don't go outside the 1-5 range and use ALT 1-5 and SHIFT 1-5 beyond that.

    It's roughly the same when I'm playing as DPS or Tanking, though I tend to skip using Clique there entirely (save for taunting or CC) and just stick to the same (ALT/SHIFT) 1-5 binds for stuff that's part of my rotation or just completely cumbersome to click on the move. Cooldowns and such get clicked, though, since I'm someone who would inevitably use those kinds of things by accident if they were bound. I learned that the hard way after using Divine Intervention on a tank a few times too many during WotLK. >.>

    Overall, I'd say I'm kind of a keybind/clicker hybrid, and that works just fine for me. To each their own.

  18. #358
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    To all the people claiming to be in world top 10 guilds while clicking, prove it.

    If you're a clicker you're going to get trashed by anybody not terrible who keybinds.

    If you're top dps or whatever in your guild and you click, your guild is terrible.

    If you think the GCD means it's ok to click because you have time between spells, you're terrible.

    @Raiju: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Raiju/advanced this you?
    Yup, around wrath-early cata was when I raided heroics as mentioned previously (although switched main to this during 3.3-4.1ish time). In 4.2 I made a social guild (last guilds got killed by the cataclysm) which I have remained in since, so naturally slacked even more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  19. #359
    A lot of people are focusing on the speed of ability use a clicker can achieve as being the main reason to keybind. I'd suggest that the main reason to keybind is so that your attention can be elsewhere.

    Example: My main (Hunter) is dps'ing away happily until boss drops a big AoE on my head, I've got 2s to get clear.
    The clicker here is watching their mouse cursor & which button it is resting over, they might not see that they're about to get squished.
    The keybinder here doesn't need to do more than glance at their abilities to check on CDs once in a while, chances are they have seen it the moment it appeared.

    Continuing the example:
    The clicker sees it late but in time to do something about it. They choose to use disengage to escape, r-click turn to face in a useful direction then have to move their mouse again to click the right button to disengage. Chances are that it's too late by the time they click that disengage.
    The keybinder sees it early, r-click turns & disengages using a keybind (Shift-X in my case) and continues doing dps.

    Yes clicking CAN work but you're choosing to play sub-optimally, I'm not going to rage at you like some others here, it's not my problem. I do suggest you give keybinding a proper try though.

    I'm personally a clicker of some abilities but ANY ability I might need in a pinch has a keybind. To take my hunter as an example, Disengage, Deterrence, Feign Death have keybinds. All my dps abilities with a CD 30s or less have keybinds. Explosive & Ice trap have keybinds. Things like Bestial Wrath, Rapid Fire, A Murder of Crows don't. They KEY (see what I did there?) thing is to have instant access to any abilities that you'll either need with no warning OR abilities that you might need simultaneously as any other.

  20. #360
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aere1985 View Post
    A lot of people are focusing on the speed of ability use a clicker can achieve as being the main reason to keybind. I'd suggest that the main reason to keybind is so that your attention can be elsewhere.

    Example: My main (Hunter) is dps'ing away happily until boss drops a big AoE on my head, I've got 2s to get clear.
    The clicker here is watching their mouse cursor & which button it is resting over, they might not see that they're about to get squished.
    The keybinder here doesn't need to do more than glance at their abilities to check on CDs once in a while, chances are they have seen it the moment it appeared.
    Why on earth would you be watching your mousepointer the whole time? Once you've clicked the first ability, everything is relative to it in exactly the same way as every other time you did.
    Continuing the example:
    The clicker sees it late but in time to do something about it. They choose to use disengage to escape, r-click turn to face in a useful direction then have to move their mouse again to click the right button to disengage. Chances are that it's too late by the time they click that disengage.
    The keybinder sees it early, r-click turns & disengages using a keybind (Shift-X in my case) and continues doing dps.
    if it's pve, after thefirst time you won't be reacting at all. You'll know it's coming. What you appear to be saying here is that if you click you are less likely to plan what you are doing ahead of time and more likely to not learn the fights. Can't see how that's a good thing, really.
    Yes clicking CAN work but you're choosing to play sub-optimally, I'm not going to rage at you like some others here, it's not my problem. I do suggest you give keybinding a proper try though.
    Which is awesome, almost no one has made the case that clicking is as good as or superior to binding. Many people have said that the increase in performance people go on about is overrated (I agree) and that it's perfectly possible to do the hardest stuff in the game (pve side) while clicking (which is true.)
    I'm personally a clicker of some abilities but ANY ability I might need in a pinch has a keybind. To take my hunter as an example, Disengage, Deterrence, Feign Death have keybinds. All my dps abilities with a CD 30s or less have keybinds. Explosive & Ice trap have keybinds. Things like Bestial Wrath, Rapid Fire, A Murder of Crows don't. They KEY (see what I did there?) thing is to have instant access to any abilities that you'll either need with no warning OR abilities that you might need simultaneously as any other.
    No warning? Doesn#t happen much in pve. As for having everything in easy reach? Just put your clicky icons next to each other. Not very difficult.

    (For the record I am currently playing resto druid and I keybind)
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