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  1. #1

    10M SoO Disc Priest Review

    Hey guys and gals!

    A Disc Priest who raids on my 10M normal team had asked me to do a performance evaluation. As a whole we feel everything is going well so far in SoO. However, our Disc Priest wants to do more, be better and I can't blame her, I rather admire that. So I turn to those who know what they are looking for in World of Logs for an honest unbiased review of her performance.

    Here is a link to our most recent logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7bo/details/3/
    Raid Leading - it's the next best thing to playing every class and spec, you just can't push the buttons or move the mouse. That's why they die.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Logs:

    She didn't use Penance offensively during Protectors, not once. This is a huge issue. It should always be used offensively unless needed to stack grace on the tank. It should also be used on CD. If she can't always use it offensively due to high tank damage, she can at least use it 1:1 tank/boss, weaving it into her atonement.

    She didn't use Spirit Shell during that fight either. In 10m especially, Spirit Shell should be used for any predictable raid damage. Calamity is a great example, as well as the stacked phase, on protectors-- she didn't use it and as such, lost out on a lot of healing.

    As disc, ditch renew, it's not worth the gcd.

    She only used Archangel 3 times in 7 minutes. This is out biggest throughput CD that we can mash for better heals. I think part of this is because she doesn't utilize atonement enough to gain Evangelism stacks in the first place.

    She also needs to make better use of Inner Focus.

    Ideally she should find a better positioning for her DS usage, as it doesn't seem to be getting as much healing from it as possible.

    ----

    Gear:

    16.2k spirit? I can understand even up to 12k, I really can. But 16.2 is WAY too much, she's losing serious throughput by gemingthe way she is. That's a lot of crit/mastery to throw away.

    At her spellpower she should be geming int/crit gems in those sockets, rather than spirit. She needs to make better use of her Meta if she's going OOM with that amount of spirit + HLG.

    _____

    Talents:

    Power Infusion is weak this tier, and taking that without even making full use of spirit shell is even more of a waste. DI and ToF (ToF when you can see greater than 35% uptime is always the best choice).

    She has significant overheal using the glyph of binding heal so while it's a good glyph, she needs to be more careful not to spam it until the opposite person is up wit full irrespective of her own health. That's a waste of mana.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    Logs:

    She didn't use Penance offensively during Protectors, not once. This is a huge issue. It should always be used offensively unless needed to stack grace on the tank. It should also be used on CD. If she can't always use it offensively due to high tank damage, she can at least use it 1:1 tank/boss, weaving it into her atonement.

    She didn't use Spirit Shell during that fight either. In 10m especially, Spirit Shell should be used for any predictable raid damage. Calamity is a great example, as well as the stacked phase, on protectors-- she didn't use it and as such, lost out on a lot of healing.

    As disc, ditch renew, it's not worth the gcd.

    She only used Archangel 3 times in 7 minutes. This is out biggest throughput CD that we can mash for better heals. I think part of this is because she doesn't utilize atonement enough to gain Evangelism stacks in the first place.

    She also needs to make better use of Inner Focus.

    Ideally she should find a better positioning for her DS usage, as it doesn't seem to be getting as much healing from it as possible.

    ----

    Gear:

    16.2k spirit? I can understand even up to 12k, I really can. But 16.2 is WAY too much, she's losing serious throughput by gemingthe way she is. That's a lot of crit/mastery to throw away.

    At her spellpower she should be geming int/crit gems in those sockets, rather than spirit. She needs to make better use of her Meta if she's going OOM with that amount of spirit + HLG.

    _____

    Talents:

    Power Infusion is weak this tier, and taking that without even making full use of spirit shell is even more of a waste. DI and ToF (ToF when you can see greater than 35% uptime is always the best choice).

    She has significant overheal using the glyph of binding heal so while it's a good glyph, she needs to be more careful not to spam it until the opposite person is up wit full irrespective of her own health. That's a waste of mana.
    Thanks for the feedback. I will bring those points to her attention.
    Raid Leading - it's the next best thing to playing every class and spec, you just can't push the buttons or move the mouse. That's why they die.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    No problem!

    I always tell people the hardest part of disc is not to get stuck doing one thing. You have to be dynamic.

    Cheers!

  5. #5
    Blademaster Lostblade01's Avatar
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    I do believe this is the first time, in any place on the internet, where a well asked question, got a thoughtful, well rounded response. Kudos to both of you! And very good information besides!

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    The priest forums, seem to be, apart from some very touchy topics (ex: "Holy vs Disc" and "Shadow nerfed for the 5000billionth time"), very relaxed and respectful.

    We've got a good community here.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    The priest forums, seem to be, apart from some very touchy topics (ex: "Holy vs Disc" and "Shadow nerfed for the 5000billionth time"), very relaxed and respectful.

    We've got a good community here.
    Special thanks to Naer! I forwarded your advise to our Disc Priest. Probably should have mentioned it was my wife...But, anyway she spent the better part of the evening reviewing your suggestions and making adjustments. How about a quick once over to see how she faired.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hrist/advanced
    Raid Leading - it's the next best thing to playing every class and spec, you just can't push the buttons or move the mouse. That's why they die.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Looks much better. A few notes:

    Mastery enchant on the gloves, rather than haste.

    When she starts to feel more comfortable tracking her meta proc and isn't feeling awkward with mana, look towards replacing the leg spell thread with the crit + int one, and the chest with the +80 stats (glorious stats iirc).

    If she uses mindbender, tell her to pick up the Sha glyph. It removes the GCD on mindbender, and is well worth it. It's also a minor glyph.

    I wish you both the best of luck! I hope I wasn't too harsh, in retrospect. I'm glad I could help!

    Howtopriest is also wonderful, quite a few knowledgeable priests there. It's valuable to read the guides and check out the talent discussion guides as well.

    I also suggest importing this WA's if she hasn't already:

    http://talesofapriest.com/resources/weak-auras/

    They're very comprehensive, and they switch depending on spec as well.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    Shadow nerfed for the 5000billionth time
    And now you know what it's like to be Ghostcrawler!

  10. #10
    I had to take a look at my own statbalance quite recently (discpriest) since my output (heal) was low and my mana management - yeah i simply ran oom too soon. I read thrue the threads about here and tried to wrap the stats and % around my head. Realising i was rather healing as a holy (whitch i havent been since early Wrath) and with that mindset to "old" statbalance fixes.
    Aswell as with the new content and new gear scaling having to realise that hc raiding in end patch (that easilly can be a bit lolslack) things really Changes with a new tier :P

    Anyhow, my comfortzone has for way long been having around 12.5k spirit unbuffed, fair haste (aiming for 2.0? greater heal as a hastepointer), then favoring crit before mast but still strifing for a balance (i am a sucker for balance). And i just couldnt figure why i couldnt manage as i should, considering the stats and gear i had. So simply had to try twinking as suggested, even tho with big hesitations xD.

    Conclusion: My mana management holds better with lower spirit (still doesnt make sense in my head but is a fact). Started dropping spirit to 10k limit, atm considering if i should try to drop even more or simply start using int food/flask (still havent dropped the spi food/flask).
    I had closer to 7k haste (didnt have that properly at my comfzone yet but Close enough), but Went for a try to drop that aswell, seeing that it wasnt the end of the World of loosing closer to 2k ish haste (greater heal atm 2.19) yet considering if i should drop it a bit more since i am seeing great benefits of it EXEPT getting that spiritshell up after the 10s nerf. tricky balance.
    Now converting my spirit and haste into crit and mast depending on gearstats. Along with this i had to take a look at my (dps) rotation and more activly pay attention to how i use my pw:s and slap myself on the wrists using PoM more. Specielly getting rid of that sw usages (wasnt any issues in ToT..). Havnt delt with my glyphs yet, even if i should since they doesnt really make sense after what i changed and yeah i simply suck at swapping the 90talent, i love my Cascade ><.
    But My mana is holding greater than Before, finding it was mainly my pw:s usage along with sw that manadrained me - i sometimes fall back to bad habits - and some fights acctually require it, but atleast i now know better where the mana is going. My healing is 20-50k improved (silly so small Changes can do such a differance Oo). And my dps acctually aswell (so more attonement).

    So Point of above. Here on the forum i found many views telling you what stats you should have and the theory Craft behind but few lifting the journey and "feeling" of output and manahandling - nore the awkwarness finding the "right path" :P. so Reading those doesnt Always encourage to strife for the new "should", if they dont make sense to you .

    I will assume she goes so high in spirit since she simply feels manastarved, encourage her to dare to drop it for other benefits and to overall dare to experiment. By playing around and seeing the effect. I use LFR alot for that (i rather se my numbers in acctuall encounters than dummies). So if she has time offraid that is definitly one of my best suggestions. Use LFR as a trainingground to twink your gear - heal as you normally do and pay attention to how she's healing, play around with other ways of healing and simply se the differences - what can be Worth doing for those encounters in real raid and what doesnt work at al. Sure LFR isnt really giving fully the feeling of how the healing converts to norm but for a disc, specially if fairly geared, you should still be able to se dif in numbers. But its good practise if not else getting used to the mechs and movements, so Always something gained - depeinding on what eyes you use when you are there .

    We can say alot of what she should, but if it doesnt feel alright and she doesnt understand whats going on she most likely will fall back to "old habbits". Numbers presented are aswell personal references, she needs to find hers - that works - for her (and you ). It is sortable! and some fights are more fitting than others (for ex i just cant make disc work for malkorok so i go holy there, atm chosing to do that on galakras aswell for second phase - easier even if i feel useless in first phase -.-).

    I hope my 50cents can come to some use and isnt only "too much blood in my coffesystem rambling" xD /dark

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknhot View Post
    Anyhow, my comfortzone has for way long been having around 12.5k spirit unbuffed, fair haste (aiming for 2.0? greater heal as a hastepointer), then favoring crit before mast but still strifing for a balance (i am a sucker for balance). And i just couldnt figure why i couldnt manage as i should, considering the stats and gear i had. So simply had to try twinking as suggested, even tho with big hesitations xD.

    Conclusion: My mana management holds better with lower spirit (still doesnt make sense in my head but is a fact). Started dropping spirit to 10k limit, atm considering if i should try to drop even more or simply start using int food/flask (still havent dropped the spi food/flask).
    I had closer to 7k haste (didnt have that properly at my comfzone yet but Close enough), but Went for a try to drop that aswell, seeing that it wasnt the end of the World of loosing closer to 2k ish haste (greater heal atm 2.19) yet considering if i should drop it a bit more since i am seeing great benefits of it EXEPT getting that spiritshell up after the 10s nerf. tricky balance.
    I just wanted to reply to this part, since I'm on a crusade trying to convince all healers (hopefully including my guild healer's who at some points had close to 20k spirit) to never ever use a spirit flask again, especially this late into the expansion.

    You are trading 1300 intellect (int flask+buff) for 1300 spirit (spirit flask+buff)
    If you took that spirit from gems, you would only be loosing 640 intellect for 1280 spirit (6 intellect gems vs 6 spirit gems). The same principle applies to using the hybrid gems, you can always get double the amount of secondary stats than intellect.
    And let's not forget you can reforge less useful secondary stats (like haste) to spirit.

    Now that's obviously an over-simplification. But unless your stat priority is something like:
    crit>mastery>spirit>INTELLECT>haste
    you should never use a spirit flask.

    That's kind of an absurd scenario anyway, since intellect is worth less than 3 of your secondary stats AND you don't have enough spirit (or haste to reforge) in your gear to reach a comfortable spirit amount.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Darknhot:

    Regarding keeping enough haste to put spiritshell up:

    http://howtopriest.com/blog/discipli...er-16-bonuses/

    This is a fairly interesting read, and it's also why I run low haste (as low as I can go, anyways).

    When in doubt, gem 2ndaries or mixed, and flask/eat primary. You're getting more bang for your buck (more stats overall) because when you gem, you get 1 primary : 2 secondary. When you flask, it's a 1:1 ratio.

    Cheers!

  13. #13
    Please give away glyph for binding heal. As a disko you don´t want to use these kind of heals anyway and if so than not with +35% more mana cost.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    I'd say the Glyph of binding heal is completely on a fight per fight basis. I do use it on some fights.

    Knowing when to, and when to not to use specific parts of your toolkit, is very important.

    Ideally I run with Inner Sanctum, Fade, and Penance. But I've been known to use Binding Heal, Smite glyphs as the situation needed.

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    What? Glyph of Binding heal is amazing. It turns BH into a powerhouse. It is quick, has double the HPS of FH, almost three times the hps of GH and is much, much more mana efficient than both of them (it is closer to Heal in terms of HPM than it is to GH/FH). If I don't need the other glyph slots for something, Glyph of Binding Heal is one of my default glyphs.

  16. #16
    Don't know if Naer mentioned this or if your wife already does it, but its very easy to set up a weak aura time bar that will visually show you when lucidity has procced and how long it has. Utilizing that clear casting space opens up tons of ability to drop spirit

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If I don't need the other glyph slots for something, Glyph of Binding Heal is one of my default glyphs.
    For some fights could be usefull -- but this sentence is true. If ...... than ...... If there won´t be other better glyphs it will be one of default.

    It is also important to tell if you heal with 2 or 3 healers on encounters and on 10 or 25 man. Because in 10 man with 2 healing sorry, but i don´t see encounter where i will use this glyph.

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ycko View Post
    For some fights could be usefull -- but this sentence is true. If ...... than ...... If there won´t be other better glyphs it will be one of default.
    Exactly, the other glyphs (aside from the two other I default to) are situational, they're not better overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ycko View Post
    It is also important to tell if you heal with 2 or 3 healers on encounters and on 10 or 25 man. Because in 10 man with 2 healing sorry, but i don´t see encounter where i will use this glyph.
    This is just strictly false though. The less healers you have the better the glyph is. If you're three healing 10man you have less need for the extra output the glyph provides. The glyph is at its very best when 2healing 10man raids.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ycko View Post
    For some fights could be usefull -- but this sentence is true. If ...... than ...... If there won´t be other better glyphs it will be one of default.

    It is also important to tell if you heal with 2 or 3 healers on encounters and on 10 or 25 man. Because in 10 man with 2 healing sorry, but i don´t see encounter where i will use this glyph.
    Fallen Protectors hc? Taking the extreme case here, but basically if you get garotte it enables binding heal as a good choice until the next He Desperate measures phase.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticktac View Post
    However, our Disc Priest wants to do more, be better and I can't blame her, I rather admire that.
    well, that's great - now send her over here.

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