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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    Can you run a log for a target dummy? I'll try it out (I also have trouble viewing logs at work, which is probably a good thing . If anything, I'll run a more extensive set on the target dummy and post skada data here.
    You can run a log for anything. I recorded my time spent doing the cooking daily in orgrimmar once by accident. THOSE PIGS NEVER KNEW WHAT HIT 'EM, AND THE LOG PROVED IT.

    As mentioned above, we're probably seeing a crit disparity, or some other damage modifier that's switching on/off that was missed in your gear.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    You can run a log for anything. I recorded my time spent doing the cooking daily in orgrimmar once by accident. THOSE PIGS NEVER KNEW WHAT HIT 'EM, AND THE LOG PROVED IT.

    As mentioned above, we're probably seeing a crit disparity, or some other damage modifier that's switching on/off that was missed in your gear.
    *Yawn* Got up bright and early and logged on a training dummy.

    HTML Code:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-84gvsz89esf91107/
    Looks like math wins. Letting rupture drop just didn't feel like home anyways

  3. #23
    Indeed.

    For anyone who might read the log incorrectly, that's 66 rupture casts to 125 eviscerates - at 125 ruptures and steady damage (replacing non-evis/rupture damage magically), rupture would have been 28.788% of his damage in the parse (roughly 123% of an eviscerate's damage per cast - with a slightly higher crit rate; averaged closer to 120%).

    Assuming for your log both hemo and FW were up for every eviscerate (but I see no reason to doubt it).

    Edit: long is vaguely corrupted (trinkets in the first section), but we're still looking at a 1.2E<=1R
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-10-11 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Indeed.

    For anyone who might read the log incorrectly, that's 66 rupture casts to 125 eviscerates - at 125 ruptures and steady damage (replacing non-evis/rupture damage magically), rupture would have been 28.788% of his damage in the parse (roughly 123% of an eviscerate's damage per cast - with a slightly higher crit rate; averaged closer to 120%).

    Assuming for your log both hemo and FW were up for every eviscerate (but I see no reason to doubt it).

    Edit: long is vaguely corrupted (trinkets in the first section), but we're still looking at a 1.2E<=1R
    Shoot, yeah the first run at it I forgot to remove my trinkets. I didn't realized the log picked up both runs. I was very careful to only eviserate during FW and only used hemo as my cp builder to make sure SV was up at all times.

  5. #25
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    The only values we really need to look at are the AP scales.

    Evis: AP*.9
    Rupture: AP*.062*12(IFSub,1.5) = AP*1.116

    For subtlety, rupture should be ahead, even under FW. Double check against tooltips in game - they should be accurate; if you think they're not, you're probably seeing the effect of armor for abilities that are affected by armor.
    My lootips in game say:

    Eviscerate: 98573-99603
    Rupture: 84822

    I assume the effect of armor isn't included in eviscerate, neither does the 50% buff of sanguinary veins in rupture? I could test eviscerate easily on dummy, but I have difficulty with rupture, it kind of make twice as much damage as the tooltip.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    The only values we really need to look at are the AP scales.

    Evis: AP*.9
    Rupture: AP*.062*12(IFSub,1.5) = AP*1.116

    For subtlety, rupture should be ahead, even under FW. Double check against tooltips in game - they should be accurate; if you think they're not, you're probably seeing the effect of armor for abilities that are affected by armor.
    No, you don't. It's like saying x^2 > x+5 because it has more scaling. You need to look at everything, and especially contextualize it.
    Last edited by Fluorescent0; 2013-10-13 at 02:55 PM.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  7. #27
    Assuming we're not looking at AP values of something like 10k, under FW we're comparing .9x+C1 < 1.116x+C2. The constant values are so low that for any level of raid gear they should be insignificant. Unless there's something I'm missing in context here? Duration was brought up earlier, we're looking literally at DPS value under FW.

    If you're comparing X values of 50-60k, x^2 > x+5 will always be accurate.

    Cuy - yes, the bonus is missing there.

  8. #28
    Keyboard Turner
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    I've written a german guide for subtlety rogue, now I added a section which handels the issue here. Also added a link to here and thx to Kael.

    Ahem, I'm not allowed to post the link...

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Kael View Post
    Assuming we're not looking at AP values of something like 10k, under FW we're comparing .9x+C1 < 1.116x+C2. The constant values are so low that for any level of raid gear they should be insignificant. Unless there's something I'm missing in context here? Duration was brought up earlier, we're looking literally at DPS value under FW.

    If you're comparing X values of 50-60k, x^2 > x+5 will always be accurate.

    Cuy - yes, the bonus is missing there.
    What I was trying to say is that you shouldn't generally make blanket statements like those because they can and probably will be understood and cause misinformation. By starting to considering the AP range you're in, you're already contextualizing your value.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuy View Post
    Ahem, I'm not allowed to post the link...
    Send it to me in a broken line by PM and I'll post it in for you, or just wait until you have a reason for 5 more posts, then come back and post it. Either way is fine, you're obviously not trying to advertise or spam people.

    Does the guide translate into English well? Most of your potential readers (here, in particular), speak English as a primary (or only) language.

    Fluor - fair enough, I keep forgetting people regularly don't actually read threads but take each post on its own without any context.

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