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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    They literally took every major mechanic and removed it.

    Do you know how little 155k is on the healthpool of somebody getting 528 gear? Without coordination on spoils it becomes an AoE fest. Without Thok really doing anything it becomes a tank and spank (he doesnt chain cast the interrupt).

    A tank in spank raid fight without any real dps requirement, because LFR, should not be giving good loot. Even patchwerk had a dps requirement.

    Seriously. Spam AoE. Burn Thok. this is what the 3rd wing is.

    Effort<<<<<<<<<<<<<<reward.

    Cannot speak for Malkorok on this one, but if they 2 shot it opposed to Nazgarim 5-9 stacks, then he has had alot removed as well.
    Makes sense since LFR is for people to see content (models and environments), not mechanics. Honestly, for my alt, I would prefer, zone in, loot roll, zone out, switch toons.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    By the rest of your post, it's fairly evident that the best gear you have is, in fact, LFR gear. Odds are that if you 'pseudo-AFK' as you state, you aren't even close to the top 5.

    There's no trolling here, just a good dose of reality.
    Annnnnnnnd somebody completely ignored the existence of Flex, crafted items, VP upgrades and world boss drops. When a majority of your peers are rocking perhaps a 505ish ilvl (496 required to join), my 526 ilvl certainly does compete, especially against people rocking 540+ who were either carried through content or busy watching Netflix. There's some reality for ya.

    +1 would "LOL" again.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Really enjoying how somehow still even though LFR offers them nothing, people are offended at it's existence. It's for casual players who can't or won't schedule their free time around a video game each week. You don't like it? Don't ... run it.
    I'm one of these people. I used to play MMOs for hours everyday. I would if I still could, honestly.

    The fact is, most of us are older now with families and work 50+ hours per week to provide a good life for our wives and kids. When I have a huge chunk of time on my day off, I go to Napa to drink wine or spend time out with friends that I can't hang out with everyday like I used to. LFR is great for people like us who want to log on, do something semi-fun, and get back to real life. I won't apologize for that. There is much more to life than sitting in front of your PC all day, which is why I'm not mad about something as silly as LFR.

    I would love to raid normals and be challenged. I was planning on it when I took my vacation. I chose to fly out to Maui instead and watch the sunrise above the clouds on a mountain 8,800 feet above sea level. Oh well, maybe next vacation.


  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra6 View Post
    -snip-
    Yeah I'm sorry but I really don't want to be working 50 hours/week. If you enjoy doing that well... good for you. And stop giving that bullshit about LFR. I've spent more time in LFR trying to do first wing than I spent clearing 4 heroic bosses. It's kind of retarded saying that LFR is time saving.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Yeah I'm sorry but I really don't want to be working 50 hours/week. If you enjoy doing that well... good for you. And stop giving that bullshit about LFR. I've spent more time in LFR trying to do first wing than I spent clearing 4 heroic bosses. It's kind of retarded saying that LFR is time saving.
    It's not that it's necessarily time saving, it's that he doesn't have to arrange his schedule around it, nor be obligated to other people over something as silly as a video game.

    Besides, him working 50 hours a week is likely putting significant resources into his bank account, which in the grand scheme of things, is a lot more important in real life than virtual gold in an MMO. Including my commute (I consider time spent related to work as working), I'm pulling 50-55 hours a week myself, go to school for another 10-15 a week, and no longer care to maintain the rigorous raid schedule I once maintained (itself was close to 35 hours a week, when you consider pre-raid preparation activities).

    You get older, wiser... and then you realize people change, particularly (and sometimes surprisingly) yourself. You need to accept that.
    Last edited by Vindican; 2013-10-09 at 08:03 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Skillslam View Post
    All I can say is yelling and calling people names won't help while leading. I mellowed out with that stuff after TBC

    God damn, this so much, I feel like a lot of people I meet in lfr need to realise that they're playing a video game to have fun, and in a game like WoW they're not going to have total control on the outcome of a boss. I literally had a warrior announce to the raid about how shit it was and how he was going to leave if we wiped again on the shamans, we wiped a second time, he announced to the raid again that he was leaving (he even did a countdown) and then bailed.

    He was doing 60k dps.

    We downed the boss on the next attempt, and the guy who replaced him was a rogue doing 200k dps.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Yeah I'm sorry but I really don't want to be working 50 hours/week. If you enjoy doing that well... good for you. And stop giving that bullshit about LFR. I've spent more time in LFR trying to do first wing than I spent clearing 4 heroic bosses. It's kind of retarded saying that LFR is time saving.
    If you clreared 4 heroic bosses and still feel like you have to do LFR then you fail to understand what LFR is for. It sure as hell isn't for you.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    If you clreared 4 heroic bosses and still feel like you have to do LFR then you fail to understand what LFR is for. It sure as hell isn't for you.
    What about:
    Valor capping
    Testing new gear/rotations
    Getting KTT or Purified Bindings of Immerseus since they didn't drop and it will be a while till they do.
    Alts
    Playing with friends just for fun or DPS racing
    Seeing how it's tuned
    I could go on...

    And me saying that "Oh I want/need to do LFR for gear in order to help my raid" might not mean much because in the grand scheme of things I'm just someone in a top 1000 guild, not much. People from Method, Blood Legion, Paragon, etc running LFR on the other hand should prove there's reason for Heroic raiders to go into LFR.
    The second Blizzard stops putting gear that is better than previous/current normal or heroic gear in LFR I will gladly never join again.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    What about:
    Valor capping
    Testing new gear/rotations
    Getting KTT or Purified Bindings of Immerseus since they didn't drop and it will be a while till they do.
    Alts
    Playing with friends just for fun or DPS racing
    Seeing how it's tuned
    I could go on...

    And me saying that "Oh I want/need to do LFR for gear in order to help my raid" might not mean much because in the grand scheme of things I'm just someone in a top 1000 guild, not much. People from Method, Blood Legion, Paragon, etc running LFR on the other hand should prove there's reason for Heroic raiders to go into LFR.
    The second Blizzard stops putting gear that is better than previous/current normal or heroic gear in LFR I will gladly never join again.
    If you need to do LFR to valor cap you're doing it wrong. Testing new gear/rotations in LFR? Wrong again. Getting some gear that you obviously needed in order to down the 4 heroic bosses? Oh wait, no you didn't. Alts? Should be doing it on normal with your heroic guild. The only one that would make any sense is just for fun. And if you're doing LFR for fun then yah you're still doing it wrong.

  10. #70
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Looks like maybe Blizzard is starting to get a working knowledge of what 25 random people are going to be capable of in a group. Personally, I think it's fine that LFR settles in to work pretty much like a 25-man normal dungeon. It seems as if people want to get in, get out and get on to something else.

    The one thing I can say with some certainty is that way too many people take LFR too seriously. It's not serious business. It's fine to see the sights, get a sense of the rooms and a vague idea of what the bosses look like before going to Flex if that's what they have in mind. Those that are happy enough with LFR as is should enjoy it for what it is and that would be the end of it. Those that can't tolerate it should stay out and largely ignore it.

    A lot of people fondly remember running Wrath heroics when everyone was overpowered and they were AOE fests. That wasn't serious business either. If LFR settles into that difficulty level it will do just fine. If that's tank & spank with some minor movement requirements, great.

    Everyone else: relax and stop arguing that it should be serious raiding simply so you can knock it down as not being serious raiding.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-10-09 at 08:47 PM.
    A bit of civility and respect for others opinions goes a long way toward getting any respect in return. Overly hostile, profane and insulting posts are a sign that people don't really have anything to say. Profanity is best served out in very small doses.

    "Forum drama exists because people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Yeah I'm sorry but I really don't want to be working 50 hours/week. If you enjoy doing that well... good for you. And stop giving that bullshit about LFR. I've spent more time in LFR trying to do first wing than I spent clearing 4 heroic bosses. It's kind of retarded saying that LFR is time saving.
    Well, unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, WoW is about the only thing you'll be doing if you don't work hard in life. If you want to look back at what you did and where you've been when you're old and tell your grand kids about that one time when LFR was hard well... good for you.

  12. #72
    I am Murloc! muto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    how did you even wipe on it once? that was probably the easiest fight i have ever done in WoW
    People doing 75k dps.

  13. #73
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    After wading through 4 pages of the same old tired shit the essence is:

    Obviously LFRaiders a skilless and need any help they can get. Heroic raiders however are awesome. Naturally nobody ever even remotely considers that players mix, that heroic and normal players actually also do LFR. That thought entered nobodies mind, eh? If you as a heroic raider are in LFR you are automatically braindead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    If you need to do LFR to valor cap you're doing it wrong. Testing new gear/rotations in LFR? Wrong again. Getting some gear that you obviously needed in order to down the 4 heroic bosses? Oh wait, no you didn't. Alts? Should be doing it on normal with your heroic guild. The only one that would make any sense is just for fun. And if you're doing LFR for fun then yah you're still doing it wrong.
    For you I have this:

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/273654-lfr-why-the-hate/

    The long version is in my sig. For crying out loud let people play as they want. This is NOT your game and you don't get to tell 7 million ppl how they play it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    What about:
    Valor capping
    Testing new gear/rotations
    Getting KTT or Purified Bindings of Immerseus since they didn't drop and it will be a while till they do.
    Alts
    Playing with friends just for fun or DPS racing
    Seeing how it's tuned
    I could go on...

    And me saying that "Oh I want/need to do LFR for gear in order to help my raid" might not mean much because in the grand scheme of things I'm just someone in a top 1000 guild, not much. People from Method, Blood Legion, Paragon, etc running LFR on the other hand should prove there's reason for Heroic raiders to go into LFR.
    The second Blizzard stops putting gear that is better than previous/current normal or heroic gear in LFR I will gladly never join again.
    So, on one hand, you're farming LFR for extra shots at loot/ messing around with your buddies /learning to class /powering up alts

    And on the other, you don't want it to be accessable to the average joe, and would rather it be difficult and ergo, have significantly higher requirements for entry as every other raid wouldn't make it to the end in it's current state, and therefore, have unrealistically huge queue times because the time/reward simply isn't worth it in a raid situation where 1 out of the 24 other strangers can simply ruin it for everyone else.

    When you're dealing with random matchmaking, you need to balance content to account for trolls, griefers, underperformers, and afk-ers, because they're going to show up regardless of the requirements set. Remember DS, and people subverted the Ilvl system by having unequippable purples in their bags with a mix of pvp gear?

    Frankly, I'd rather put up with the fuss and have that extra avenue of gear (Especially if VP stops being for gear moving forward) than have to submit to bad RNG. You're probably pushing high enough numbers now to not have to worry about enrage timers without the bindings, and the personal DPS increase might help secure a raid spot, but really, you're not likely wiping becasue you don't have the LFR version of your BiS trinkets.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    What about:
    Valor capping
    Testing new gear/rotations
    Getting KTT or Purified Bindings of Immerseus since they didn't drop and it will be a while till they do.
    Alts
    Playing with friends just for fun or DPS racing
    Seeing how it's tuned
    I could go on...

    And me saying that "Oh I want/need to do LFR for gear in order to help my raid" might not mean much because in the grand scheme of things I'm just someone in a top 1000 guild, not much. People from Method, Blood Legion, Paragon, etc running LFR on the other hand should prove there's reason for Heroic raiders to go into LFR.
    The second Blizzard stops putting gear that is better than previous/current normal or heroic gear in LFR I will gladly never join again.
    Shared loot lockout on all difficulties, and only coin roll on normal/heroic pls.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by abstieg View Post
    since when has lfr been about effort? You go in, you put in a marginal amount of time and effort, you "see" bosses and content and get your 528, which is significantly less powerful than the full fights' rewards. What's the problem?
    gotta protekt dose purpahs!!!!

  17. #77
    Why are people complaining about LFR loot being to good when you can get better gear from Timeless Isle and never even have to enter a raid group. I'll admit in 5.2 and 5.3 I mostly did LFR but with the addition of flex and the ease of finding a flex group, I really have no reason to run LFR anymore.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by xeleK View Post
    when you can get better gear from Timeless Isle.
    The odds of getting a decent item from Isle is relatively low. As a Ret I've had Crit on every item I've had from there and while past 40% Haste Crit does become a little better, it's still god awful as a stat on it's own. Now compared to the items I've got in SoO so far, they've all got Haste and 2 have Mastery. That evidence is anecdotal but it'd be the same for Warriors getting Haste and not Crit and so on.

    My biggest gripe is that people go out to Isle, get a full 496 loot with shit stats on and think that's raid ready for SoO. Just... no.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    Well it is great to read this thread.... people going in LFR, coming out and complaining that it is too easy, this should be removed, that should be removed.....
    AND then they just went in, run it, got the gear..... :-)
    I assume they needed that gear, because they didn't have the N or HC gear of the previous tier?

    So, if it is THAT retarded and you abviously don't need the gear, cause you have already higher ilvl, why did you go in?
    What I find funny is the mutually exclusive comments that get made here by elitists

    1. OMG. LFR is so dumb-down and easy.. it doesn´t deserve to give epics
    2. OMG. these guys suck so bad, they wiped 5 times.

    I am just not sure how both of those things can be accurate at the same time which is why, although I don´t do LFR anymore, I tend to think we are just dealing with a bunch of kids with small penises in this forum that need to brag to feel good about themselves.

    Every other tier, I did LFR on two characters and never saw half of what people talk about. I never saw really subpar DPS or people afking... and by far the worst, and most annoying people were the ´real raiders´..

    But in the end, I really think the problem with LFR compared to normal mode is that in normal mode, you learn ( and fail) mechanisms with friends, who are also learning ( and failing) them at the exact same time you are. Once you learn those mechanisms on normal, and then you jump into LFR.. of course the people who only do LFR are going to look like they are failing mechanisms.. because it is the first time they are seeing them.. the difference is, they are failing them in front of strangers, many who already did that boss for a couple weeks and are now looking for a speed-run.

    the other thing is just griefing. A lot of people assume that mechanisms are removed to make things easier for the ´baddies´.. but the fact is most mechanisms that are completely removed are removed because you can use them to grief. For instance, on Galaron, crush wasn´t nerfed because of players accidently setting it off, it was nerfed because two guildmates thought it would be funny to purposefully sit under the boss and laugh at the people getting killed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    What about:
    Valor capping
    Testing new gear/rotations
    Getting KTT or Purified Bindings of Immerseus since they didn't drop and it will be a while till they do.
    Alts
    Playing with friends just for fun or DPS racing
    Seeing how it's tuned
    I could go on...

    And me saying that "Oh I want/need to do LFR for gear in order to help my raid" might not mean much because in the grand scheme of things I'm just someone in a top 1000 guild, not much. People from Method, Blood Legion, Paragon, etc running LFR on the other hand should prove there's reason for Heroic raiders to go into LFR.
    The second Blizzard stops putting gear that is better than previous/current normal or heroic gear in LFR I will gladly never join again.
    LOL. if you are doing LFR to cap valor.... then really, anything you say here is basically meaningless because you fail at basic logic. A five minute heroic scenerio gives more vp than a 1 hour LFR segment... not to mention the obvious.. but if you are really that for into heroics.. you really shouldn´t need much ´capping´ lol.

    It is hard to take someone serious when they say something like that. Not to mention the whole thing about ´playing with friends just for fun´... by doing something you absolutely hate? Seriously. do heroic scenerios, or even start a pug flex with friends.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Looks like maybe Blizzard is starting to get a working knowledge of what 25 random people are going to be capable of in a group. Personally, I think it's fine that LFR settles in to work pretty much like a 25-man normal dungeon. It seems as if people want to get in, get out and get on to something else.

    The one thing I can say with some certainty is that way too many people take LFR too seriously. It's not serious business. It's fine to see the sights, get a sense of the rooms and a vague idea of what the bosses look like before going to Flex if that's what they have in mind. Those that are happy enough with LFR as is should enjoy it for what it is and that would be the end of it. Those that can't tolerate it should stay out and largely ignore it.

    A lot of people fondly remember running Wrath heroics when everyone was overpowered and they were AOE fests. That wasn't serious business either. If LFR settles into that difficulty level it will do just fine. If that's tank & spank with some minor movement requirements, great.

    Everyone else: relax and stop arguing that it should be serious raiding simply so you can knock it down as not being serious raiding.
    I agree with this mostly, but the only problem is that players will progressively get lazier. This causes problems in two ways. First, within a tier, we will simply see more and more players go afk if the content allows it. If as a dps, you can jump into an LFR that takes 45 minutes with your effort, and 48 mins with you watching TV.. pretty soon, a lot of dps are going to be watching TV. I tanked a LOT during WOTLK heroic dungeons... they were like MoP heroics in that they took 10 mins for me to complete, or 12 minutes to complete if all 3 dps were afk. Players (especially dps) are gradually going to learn that, that their contribution is so small, that it doesn´t really change anything. You need a tank to tank, and healers to keep the tank alive, and after that.. dps just cuts down on the time needed to complete the dungeon.

    The other problem is the system shock of new tiers (expansions). Again, I never thought Cata heroic dungeons were hard.. but they were drastically harder on DPS than what they had been experiencing for the last 12 months of Wotlk.

    LFR is endgame for a lot of players, it has to have at least a little bit of difficulty to it throughout the tier..

  20. #80
    I like the new wing. I'd rather it be a bit easier considering there are already 2 other weeks to grind through each week. I'd rather enjoy easier LFR gearing up a bunch of toons then have LFR so hard/painful that I wouldn't bother doing any endgame at all.

    People limited to LFR can do flex raids now. There's really no excuse to moan over the difficult of LFR imo. LFR is the new 5mans for WoW. Get used to it.

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