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  1. #1

    Blood tanking Wanting more DPS

    Hi ,

    Im currentlly tanking with my DK blood spec doing around 100k dps on all bosses could some one give me some tips on increase of dps for my tank,
    TANK NAME : BOWIZ REALM: TEROKKAR

    Thanks Much appreicated

  2. #2
    First thing I see is you have 15,6 % Expertise, which is more than double of what you need. Get it down to 7,5 %.
    Second thing is you have 8,61% hit, which is about 1 % too much, get it down to 7,5%.

    Invest the rest of the stats in other stats (I see you have 200% mastery unbuffed, it should be MORE than enough for SoO normal/flex).

    You can drop the parry gems, they are almost useless. Put the rest of the stats into Haste gems.

    Maybe get a DPS trinket instead of those 2 survival trinkets.

    Without logs or anything else I can't say much more about why you only deal 100k dps.

    If you always only second tank and don't actually tank bosses but just stand there behind the boss in blood spec, 100k is decent, not good, but it's okay.

    When you "main-tank" a boss for the whole duration or at least until taunt because of stacks, 100k dps is very low. You should look into using every GCD you can and not sit around and wait for the 3 auto attacks/special attacks to use your DS after. But if you do 100k dps I doubt you know about the mechanics of a blood dk anyway.

    TL;DR: Hit to 7,5%, Expertise to 7,5%, Mastery to 200% -> rest haste. Lose the parry gems, maybe get a DPS trinket. Without logs the rest is unclear.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Zeranox's Avatar
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    It's not bad to have 15% expertise since it removes the boss chance to parry your attacks. But if OP is offtanking alot, 7,5% exp is the way to go.

  4. #4
    Blademaster Dariussv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaharon View Post
    You can drop the parry gems, they are almost useless. Put the rest of the stats into Haste gems.
    - parry actually gives more dps and survi than haste

  5. #5
    Shouldnt a tank priorize on mitigation rather than on damage? Just asking.

  6. #6
    Blademaster Dariussv's Avatar
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    - depends on the fight, dmg taken, role mt/ot, raid size, dps requirements, healers quality, your performance... :P

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaharon View Post
    You can drop the parry gems, they are almost useless. Put the rest of the stats into Haste gems.
    Please....please....please.... /facepalm

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaharon View Post
    Lose the parry gems,
    Parry gives him DPS via Riposte.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by INecrosiSI View Post
    Parry gives him DPS via Riposte.
    It's a very low conversion rate

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Sunnydee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGWentworth View Post
    It's a very low conversion rate
    0.75 is low? not far off 1-1 ratio.. but yeah sitting at roughly 40%+ critt on my dk with avoidance build. whilst according to our logs i do same amount of healing + taking lower amount of dmg (sure burst is another thing)

    Imao im going full d/p atm and i love it. more dmg and so much smoother gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    It's so fluffy I'm gonna die.

  11. #11
    next week I will be able to have better math behind what I did. I was sitting at 250% mastery, took 50% of it and changed it over to haste. Still hit/exp capped (7.5%) and my DPS almost doubled. Sitting at 21% haste right now, I may change it out for more avoidance (favoring parry over dodge). Haste is the balanced DPS build from everything I have gathered from other forums here.

    The haste build feels a lot like the DW Frost build from Cata. Fast hitting, lots of RP, and runes popping all the time. It just takes some practice getting to where you need to be via CD management. I went from 75k DPS on most fights in 10 man, single tanked to close to 150k last night. Sitting at a 546 ilvl. There is more tweeking I can do, and I will be doing more and more of that as I go and keep things updated.

    For 10 mans, haste build works if your healers are solid, and you need more DPS to kill bosses. But it all comes down to playstyle and takes a lot of work to balance out what you think works the best. Just remember, the whole point of a tank is to stay alive, and not die. So if you are dying more often, tune it back some and balance it out. Going to sound like a dick move, but que for LFR and test it out. I did TOT LFR just so I didn't have to deal with SoO LFRs.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JGWentworth View Post
    It's a very low conversion rate
    Yes; but you do know that Crit is stronger than Haste for DPS output of a Blood DK right?

    The only reason people went for Mastery > Haste after caps in ToT was because next to providing damage; haste provides rune regen, and therefore a bit more survivability.

    With Riposte, we can do the same, but better. Going for more avoidance gives us Crit, a stat STRONGER than Haste in a really good conversion rate of .75.

    And the main thing that you're probably not aware of, is parryhaste. Parry-haste is the mechanic that when one parries, their next melee hit becomes hastened. What does this mean for Deathknights? It procs more SoB stacks for us. And increases our damage even more.

    Avoidance > Haste for DPS, especially if you already have a couple pieces with Haste, since in current gearlevels at around 6-9k Haste it's almost impossible to spam anything other than DeathStrike and RuneStrike because of being GCD-capped.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickwickman View Post
    Yes; but you do know that Crit is stronger than Haste for DPS output of a Blood DK right?

    The only reason people went for Mastery > Haste after caps in ToT was because next to providing damage; haste provides rune regen, and therefore a bit more survivability.

    With Riposte, we can do the same, but better. Going for more avoidance gives us Crit, a stat STRONGER than Haste in a really good conversion rate of .75.

    And the main thing that you're probably not aware of, is parryhaste. Parry-haste is the mechanic that when one parries, their next melee hit becomes hastened. What does this mean for Deathknights? It procs more SoB stacks for us. And increases our damage even more.

    Avoidance > Haste for DPS, especially if you already have a couple pieces with Haste, since in current gearlevels at around 6-9k Haste it's almost impossible to spam anything other than DeathStrike and RuneStrike because of being GCD-capped.
    I don't believe parry-haste is in the game anymore
    It takes 75% of the rating not the percentage and adds that to crit, it doesnt really give a whole lot. If you're looking for a damage increase hit a mastery level that works for you then a haste level that works for you then dump your stats into crit. We don't get nearly the same benefit from Riposte as warriors do.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JGWentworth View Post
    I don't believe parry-haste is in the game anymore
    It takes 75% of the rating not the percentage and adds that to crit, it doesnt really give a whole lot. If you're looking for a damage increase hit a mastery level that works for you then a haste level that works for you then dump your stats into crit. We don't get nearly the same benefit from Riposte as warriors do.
    parry haste still works for players.
    bosses no longer do it.


    you're all forgetting about the extra sob rp from dodges/parries now. extra rp -> more runes strikes (more damage) + more procs of your regen talent of choice (lowering haste's value)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JGWentworth View Post
    I don't believe parry-haste is in the game anymore
    It takes 75% of the rating not the percentage and adds that to crit, it doesnt really give a whole lot. If you're looking for a damage increase hit a mastery level that works for you then a haste level that works for you then dump your stats into crit. We don't get nearly the same benefit from Riposte as warriors do.
    1) Parryhaste works for players. If you have between 60-100% left on your swing timer, it reduces it by 40%; if you have between 20% and 60% left on your swing timer, it reduces it to 20% remaining; if you have less than 20%, it has no effect. This results in an average of .24 extra swings per parry.

    2) Haste is no longer very desirable for Blood DPS because we generate so much more resources than we did last patch. This is from a combination of many factors, including Scent of Blood changes, Glyph of Regenerative Magic, Vial of Living Corruption, T16 4-piece bonus, and DRW RP cost removal. All this causes us to be GCD capped at much lower values of haste than in the past.

    3) Yes, Riposte gives you 75% of your combined dodge/parry rating. Dodge, Parry, and Crit have the same item budget, so that makes gemming for dodge/parry 75% as effective as gemming for pure crit for DPS (I'm not sure how this counts as "doesn't really give a whole lot"), plus avoidance is a good survivability stat whereas crit has no benefit to our survival.

    Take a look at two of the top-parsing 10-man DKs:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...k/Auk/advanced
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...otikz/advanced

    The only haste they have comes naturally from a few of their gear pieces. They gem/reforge completely into avoidance and hit/exp caps.

  16. #16
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    Don't expertise cap, I highly think it's a waste of 2500 rating that could be spent elsewhere. From what I can gather, expertise past 7.5% is worse for DPS than crit.

    Unlike a lot of tanks a lot of our abilities can't be parried anyway. Death strike can't be parried, rune strike can't be parried, and neither can blood boil or DnD. The only attacks that can be parried and benefit from having above 7.5% expertise are soul reaper and heart strike, abilities which you don't use all that often. Sure parried soul reapers hurt, but having 2500 more rating in other areas over the course of an encounter is going to give you more DPS.

    You have two options to increase your DPS. Gem pure critical strike, or gear towards pure avoidance. The DPS gain from going pure critical strike is absolutely negligible, while going pure avoidance has two effects. First you get the avoidance you wouldn't get by gemming crit, and second you get 75% of your dodge/parry in critical strike from gemming avoidance anyway.

    A lot of people don't know this but parry haste STILL exists, but only for players. It's removed from bosses. More parry through avoidance not only gives you higher critical strike, but it gives you more opportunities to parry haste. This gives you more white attacks, which procs more SoB which in turn gives you more RP to convert into rune strikes. More resources means more GCDs spent on things like DS/Rune strike, which both help with survival and DPS.

    All in all this allows you to remove haste from your build and still be GCD capped. While you will have less white attacks due to lower haste, the increased parry hasted attacks should make up for the decreased auto swing timer. Basically you can drop haste almost completely and still have just as many resources as you would have by having that haste anyway.

    Basically it's downright retarded not to go for avoidance right now if you care about survival and DPS at the same time. Mastery is still useful but it's something that I look at as secondary. Hit/Expertise (to soft) > Avoidance > Mastery > Haste. Parry haste, the new AMS glyph just help so much to alleviate what I use to do in 5.2 by focusing on haste and crit. Now I can get the perks of survival stats (avoidance) and nearly as much DPS as I did in 5.2 gemming crit/haste, it's honestly win/win.

    TLDR; Go avoidance. Drop haste. Hit your soft cap on expertise. This is how you maximize DPS in a non retarded way in 5.4. Your only other reasonable options for increasing DPS are strength flasks, food, RoTFC runeforge and using the DPS cape. The tanking cape is good, but highly optional. I would not under any circumstance (unless you're full BiS and are burning bosses super fast) use the DPS meta gem anymore, it's simply not worth it). If you feel squishy up your mastery a bit. I use to rank really highly in ToT, and swapped to mastery in 5.4 for the first couple weeks because damage intake was far higher. Last two weeks I started swapping to avoidance and my damage went up by 40-50k on average for each fight, with my survival feeling roughly the same. 10-15% critical strike (or more) helps a lot with damage, especially at high vengeance levels.

    Oh and DPS trinkets are still really good. Skeers, Primordius and Feather are all solid trinkets for tanking. I'll still probably use the vial off of Malkorok if it ever drops though. I won't do as much damage, but more DRW and more defensive CDs are honestly really hard to pass up.
    Last edited by Tojara; 2013-10-09 at 10:48 PM.

  17. #17
    Whats a good single target rotation on a boss

  18. #18
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    Honestly it's as simple as filly as many GCDs with death strike and runestrike as you possibly can. Only using your blood runes or crimson scourge procs when you can't do either RS/DS. Obviously using soul reaper when approaching 35%.

    The only other thing that is worth mentioning is refreshing diseases if you suddenly spike in vengeance or are using DPS trinkets that increase strength or crit (like feather, skeers, primordius talisman). Diseases still snapshot and it's still something you can take advantage of. Refreshing diseases with a bloodboil on the last 0.5 seconds of skeers for example is essentially going to give your diseases near 100% crit rate.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cryopathy View Post
    1) Parryhaste works for players. If you have between 60-100% left on your swing timer, it reduces it by 40%; if you have between 20% and 60% left on your swing timer, it reduces it to 20% remaining; if you have less than 20%, it has no effect. This results in an average of .24 extra swings per parry.

    2) Haste is no longer very desirable for Blood DPS because we generate so much more resources than we did last patch. This is from a combination of many factors, including Scent of Blood changes, Glyph of Regenerative Magic, Vial of Living Corruption, T16 4-piece bonus, and DRW RP cost removal. All this causes us to be GCD capped at much lower values of haste than in the past.

    3) Yes, Riposte gives you 75% of your combined dodge/parry rating. Dodge, Parry, and Crit have the same item budget, so that makes gemming for dodge/parry 75% as effective as gemming for pure crit for DPS (I'm not sure how this counts as "doesn't really give a whole lot"), plus avoidance is a good survivability stat whereas crit has no benefit to our survival.

    Take a look at two of the top-parsing 10-man DKs:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...k/Auk/advanced
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...otikz/advanced

    The only haste they have comes naturally from a few of their gear pieces. They gem/reforge completely into avoidance and hit/exp caps.

    I am really intrigued by that, is it better then a mastery>exphitcap>parry build? I'm currently progressing through heroic, i would really like to try that build but i'm afraid of being too squishy lacking mastery.
    Last edited by Rakran; 2013-10-10 at 02:59 AM.

  20. #20
    I don't know about dks, but for warriors once they get over 50k? vengeance than avoidance gives the most dps.
    this guy is always ranking near the top on almost every fight and came up with the number: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...ull/%C3%89ddy/

    haven't seen anyone do serious dps calculations for blood though

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