Not gonna lie Garrosh had a pretty impressive set up to go to war.

[Evilfish]

Garrosh himself just didn't have the aura of invincibility that other end bosses had, like Lich King.

No but he sure had a strong fucking army. Shame his defeat left the Horde at half capacity. And worst of all - NAZGRIM died....

[Deleted]

It doesn't feel that impressive when 10 people can defeat that army...

:I

[slime]

We know what would have happened, Stormwind would have been levelled, the rebellion/Alliance leaders killed and Garrosh would have his world. Wrathion stated the Horde's victory was assured until it splintered. Garrosh was on course to defeat The Alliance.

And yet ... 25 heroes stopped them. Yep, on his way to crush the alliance. bwhahahah - stupid orc - go roll around in your own shit like 1/2 pigs love to do.

[Immitis]

I just don't get it.

a bundle of sticks is greater then a single stick. they teach this shit to kids all the time its not that hard.

[Conjor]

How does it weaken the world?

If the Alliance can be broken, decimated, and utterly defeated. Then aren't they the "weak link" in the chain? It makes no sense..

I recommend watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73eOK5U0Y4#t=527

It explains exactly why it would "weaken" the world. Long story short:

"Talk, talk, talk... Always you speak, never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria. You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: black and white; darkness and light.

When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved the homeland of our ancient enemy: the Mantid. Why did he do this? He did so to keep the land whole. Living with the Mantid for 10,000 years has made us both strong! So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another, they are strong because of one another! You mistake your greatest strength for weakness.

Do you see this?"

Feel free to watch it all, but the point starts at 8:47.

[Immitis]

We know what would have happened, Stormwind would have been levelled, the rebellion/Alliance leaders killed and Garrosh would have his world. Wrathion stated the Horde's victory was assured until it splintered. Garrosh was on course to defeat The Alliance.

all evidence shows this is false, the horde didnt win a single battle besides theramore after the alliance were done cleaning up the cataclysm.

not a single one.

garrosh wouldve never won, a splinter timeline where events happen perfectly in garroshes favor is not a likely outcome, it was just one of many.

[jayinjersey]

Of course you are forgetting if it wasn't for us and the rebellion...The Bell would still be his, He'd probably have the Thunder King's power and of course all the Mogu stuff would be under horde control too.

[Immitis]

and even then wrathion didnt want one side to decimate the other, wrathion wanted to end the war with the smallest amount of casualties as quickly as possible, his plan still worked, he just assumed that afterwards whichever side won would force the other side to join them.

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Of course you are forgetting if it wasn't for us and the rebellion...The Bell would still be his, He'd probably have the Thunder King's power and of course all the Mogu stuff would be under horde control too.

anduin was the one who broke the bell so i dont know what the hell you're talking about.

the horde character was the one who GAVE HIM the bell. the alliance are the ones who broke it.

[flambookey]

Can someone please shed some light on how he got the paragons on his side I can't find info on that

[Deleted]

Because they value the old god Y'Shaarj above everything else, they explain it when you get exalted.

[vawugz]

How does it weaken the world?

If the Alliance can be broken, decimated, and utterly defeated. Then aren't they the "weak link" in the chain? It makes no sense..

Better to not think about it, this is the second time they've used this excuse as to why both sides must coexist.

[Hitei]

Can someone please shed some light on how he got the paragons on his side I can't find info on that

The Mantid worship the Old Gods and Garrosh partially resurrected Y'shaarj, so the Paragons are fighting with him in order to protect their god.

[Kootur]

I know this might be asking for much but I sort of skipped this expansion and I want to get ready for the next. I was wondering is there a place to get caught up on the lore of this expansion? I don't really know what happened. Did it set anything up for the next expansion?

[Khaza-R]

The Paragons didn't just join because of Y'Shaarj. Their Empress was working with Y'Shaarj also through the Sha of Fear. Apparently though, they don't ally themselves with the those corrupted by the Sha or Y'Shaarj. Only those powerful enough to be beyond its influence, like themselves or Garrosh.

That said, had Garrosh had the whole Mantid Swarm at his side he probably would have won.

[Zatetic]

I dont think he really had Thok on his side. I think Thok was more like a fighting dog. Something caged up and taunted until enemies approached in which case youd set it free and get to high ground. Thok seemed fairly indifferent when he ate the troop of korkron orcs right before you put him down.

[Beat5beat]

I just don't get it.

how don't you get it?

A unified Garrosh horde being stronger than the alliance does not = Garrosh horde stronger than Alliance + Horde.

If you have a giant bad ass tank, and you have another not quite as bad ass tank but still pretty bad ass. What do you think is stronger? Both tanks together, or the giant bad ass tank alone because it destroyed the other tank?

It's as simple as this.

Garrosh Horde vs Burning legion
(because he killed the alliance)

or

Horde + Alliance vs Burning legion

[Myrandron]

Totally, and combine all of that with the fact that Garrosh is a tactical genius, there was a time in ashenvale when he predicted almost every single move the Alliance would make in retaliation with the help of the knowledge of who was there at the time and the stories he had heard of them, only failing because of Varian. If he hadn't been stopped at that time it most likely would've been gameover for everyone since the sheer force of that army and his tactical brilliance.

[MagicBanana]

Think about all the bosses in SoO from Galakras on. He would have a pretty mean army to conquor with. From firebreathing Galakras, The Iron Juggernaut and Blackfuse leading seige opperations. General Nazgrim leading the foot soldiers with Dark Shamans and Malkorok. Thok and numerous Jinyu, Yongol, and Saurok. Anima Golems, Various breed of Mantid, and Anima Golems and The Paragons of the Klaxxi for R&D and various other operations. Got to admit if he where had a pretty impressive set up for war. Would of been nice to see some what/if situations if we wasnt able to stop him like the 5 mans that came out in DS. or maybe ive been playing civ 5 too much.

Yup.

Garrosh could've crushed the Alliance and then the Legion would show up and kill Garrosh and his True Horde and take over Azeroth. All because the Alliance was defeated and thus no Velen or Anduin alive to help form the Army of the Light to defeat the Legion.

Win or lose the war, Garrosh's efforts were completely pointless.

[wariofan1]

Then he would have made the mistake of trying to conquer Northrend, and gotten his ass handed to him.

Garrosh was in the heart of The Lich King's operations, he knows how he was at full power. Garrosh wouldn't have gone to Northrend before turning every one of his soldiers into the likes of Malkorok, and considering how weakened The Lich King's army has become after WotLK (considering he lost all of his strongest servants in his idiotic master plan) Garrosh would easily take Northrend.

The only thing that'd take down Garrosh in the end would be the Legion or an overdose of Old God corruption, whichever would come first.

[Time Sage]

Well it was only the Orcish race left but it would take all the races combined might to stand against the Legion. Garrosh and his forces would stand no chance by themselves. Hence why his reign in the Blank Scroll still ended with a lost except this time complete annihilation.

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The dungeon journal also tells you briefly about the boss and why they're even there. There brief little bios about them. It's enough to be creative with plus in the case of the Dark Shamans they are in Org outside the raid having a discussion with each other.

Those guys are old NPCs, one of which was uprooted from I believe Stonard of all places withe the other was from Org. Both of them were Shaman Trainers and the current world reflects this and they are in org talking while the one outside org has been replaced with a different NPC