1. #1

    A few questions about MM, both pve and pvp.

    1. Crit vs haste reforging in pvp?
    2. Same question as above but in pve. Some sources say crit > haste others say haste > crit, I can't find a definitive answer.
    3. I've read about two viable pve rotations, one taking a thrill of the hunt and using AS as a focus dump80%> and the other taking dire beast and always using AiS as a focus dump being the difference. Which is better? I liked the AiS focus dump rotation a lot better.
    4. Blink strikes or AMOC for pve?
    5. See above but for pvp.
    6. Which two SoO trinkets are best for MM?

    Currently my ilvl is 525 but I have a 548 bow, no tier set bonuses either. I know MM is wep dependent but please don't tell me to go BM/surv until I have [insert trinket/wep/set bonus/ilvl here], I despise the other two specs so even if MM isn't nearly as good until a certain gear level I just want to know how to make the most out of it.

  2. #2
    1. Mastery.
    2. www.femaledwarf.com ; www.simulationcraft.org
    3. See #2.
    4. See #3.
    5. Blink Strikes all the way. AMoC is dispellable (I believe), and does damage way too slowly.
    6. No idea.

    Regarding 2-4, you need to understand that Blizzard intended this talent system to be flexible and easily changeable. The answer isn't always going to be the same for every fight. Learn what each talent does, and change them when it benefits you to do so.

  3. #3
    Generally recommended trinkets are
    BM: Assurance/Ticking
    MM/SV: Assurance/Haromm's
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  4. #4
    6. I know at around my gear level, Assurance and Harrom's are the best for MM, but I'm guessing where you are at Ebon Detonator isn't far behind. FD or SimC can give you a better idea.

  5. #5
    1. for pvp MM i would go crit, hands down.
    2. for PVE MM i will go Haste->crit->mastery. unless something has changed. i think 1 of the hunters from a high ranked guild is playing MM AiS and getting amazing results so yeah.
    3. Dire Beast always on fights where you wont miss any pet attack. i would recomend fervor over ToTH for brust focus income and would use TOTH on sustained aoe fights or fights where you need to fast switch.
    4. AMoC unless the targets you are killing wont last 30 sec (see spoils and still have his useses on that fight due to large boxes).
    5. I would say Linx Rush for pvp. if you dont like it, blink strikes, unless you just sit your pet next to you then it would be AMoC. Depending what you fighting tbh.
    6. Best Trinkets should be (this is what i feel and i do not belive much on sims on this) AoC, Multristrike, and cleave for cleave fights, i highly dislike TED.

  6. #6
    2. For PvE, MM is extremely gear dependent, so i dont recommend it until you have a heroic weapon and at least normal versions of AoC and Haromm's. Personally, i see that going for haste>crit>mastery is a massive waste in damage. You can get 2-3 wildquiver proccs every second if you reforge for crit>mastery>haste (ilvl 570), which can add up to around one aimed shot without the hassle of losing 50 focus and some time casting aimed shot. Also, the mastery is better for MM on add fights where haste is worthless.
    Keep in mind your opener is usually accompanied by lust, and even i get less than 1 second on aimed shot cast during the first 30 seconds of the fight; i cannot imagine what the cast time on aimed shot would be if you reforged for haste... it makes me cringe.
    Haste may be better for less geared players, but with that in mind, you shouldn't really be expecting better results from it with that gear compared to BM and Surv.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Walajanilu View Post
    2. For PvE, MM is extremely gear dependent, so i dont recommend it until you have a heroic weapon and at least normal versions of AoC and Haromm's. Personally, i see that going for haste>crit>mastery is a massive waste in damage. You can get 2-3 wildquiver proccs every second if you reforge for crit>mastery>haste (ilvl 570), which can add up to around one aimed shot without the hassle of losing 50 focus and some time casting aimed shot. Also, the mastery is better for MM on add fights where haste is worthless.
    Keep in mind your opener is usually accompanied by lust, and even i get less than 1 second on aimed shot cast during the first 30 seconds of the fight; i cannot imagine what the cast time on aimed shot would be if you reforged for haste... it makes me cringe.
    Haste may be better for less geared players, but with that in mind, you shouldn't really be expecting better results from it with that gear compared to BM and Surv.
    How do you handle the cast speed of aimed shot with such low haste (7.2k)? Strictly casting aimed shot under haste effects and favoring arcane shot in other times?

    Additionally a few questions that have been bothering me:
    GT during Careful Aim - Regular use or drop in favor of aimed shots?
    DB/TotH/Fervor - DB usually wins out, TotH on fights requiring on-demand burst (thinking Seigecrafter belts here) and is there ever a time for Fervor?

    Thanks for the info.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Walajanilu View Post
    2. For PvE, MM is extremely gear dependent, so i dont recommend it until you have a heroic weapon and at least normal versions of AoC and Haromm's. Personally, i see that going for haste>crit>mastery is a massive waste in damage. You can get 2-3 wildquiver proccs every second if you reforge for crit>mastery>haste (ilvl 570), which can add up to around one aimed shot without the hassle of losing 50 focus and some time casting aimed shot. Also, the mastery is better for MM on add fights where haste is worthless.
    Keep in mind your opener is usually accompanied by lust, and even i get less than 1 second on aimed shot cast during the first 30 seconds of the fight; i cannot imagine what the cast time on aimed shot would be if you reforged for haste... it makes me cringe.
    Haste may be better for less geared players, but with that in mind, you shouldn't really be expecting better results from it with that gear compared to BM and Surv.
    There it is! In pretty much every thread asking something about MM(Been lurking these forums for a while, since around MoP release,) cap'n obvious comes to the rescue and tells the OP that they shouldn't go MM because BM and surv do better dps. Or lately since the buff it's been 'don't go MM until you have these pieces of gear'. I see it to a lesser extent on other class forums, where someone will ask for tips on playing a spec and the reply is 'don't play that spec until X".You know, because there's no way someone could be playing the spec because they...whats the word...enjoy playing it, and want to make the best of the playstyle they enjoy knowing full well they could be doing more playing two specs they don't find fun? In a video game? Nah, that's crazy talk.

    /rant

    Sorry, but seeing how hard of a concept it is to some people on these forums, that many people would sacrifice some DPS to play a spec they like rather than one they hate really boggles my mind.

  9. #9
    Bit of an off-topic regarding MM and SimC, SimC doesn't support hard-casting AiS all the time right? It does use Arcane in its APL?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dfectiv View Post
    How do you handle the cast speed of aimed shot with such low haste (7.2k)? Strictly casting aimed shot under haste effects and favoring arcane shot in other times?

    Additionally a few questions that have been bothering me:
    GT during Careful Aim - Regular use or drop in favor of aimed shots?
    DB/TotH/Fervor - DB usually wins out, TotH on fights requiring on-demand burst (thinking Seigecrafter belts here) and is there ever a time for Fervor?

    Thanks for the info.
    Because of the low haste, I never use aimed shot unless i have one other haste buff besides Imp steady. In a raid setting with imp steady my aimed shot is like 1.7 sec cast which is way to high to spam cast it, which is fine because I didnt find it as effective as going with mastery and using aimed whenever it proccs.
    Duirng the opener, i only use Aimed, Chimera, and steadyshot; once bloodlust fades, i go back to normal priority system, unless rapid fire is up again for some reason, or another haste buff.

    I dont think i've ever used GT during Careful Aim, it is best to dump as many aimed and chimera shots into the boss duirng this time.

    I am mainly playing MM for all bosses where heavy aoe is not needed, like Galakras because MM aoe is very weak atm. Therefore, sticking with MoC and DB for single target is nuts, and i am pretty sure MoC proccs wild quiver unless i am mistaken, which is a double win. If you want to AoE as MM pick up Blink Strikes and ToTH, i am trying out Sigil of Rampage and getting decent results, but no where near BM aoe.
    Personally i dont like fervor as MM because of a few reasons. Firstly, because your pet doesnt really matter since you arent specced for BS, the focus for it wont matter, and if you have 4P for MM, You will be using aimed shot more than you think, which means more rapid fire which gives you insane focus regen for the time it is up, plus you lose the damage from DB on the targets which is pretty strong.
    If you want to use Fervor on aoe targets, i would refrain from doing so just because as ToTH a MM, you can spam multishots for free which means you can throw in a chimera or aimed shot in every now and then.

  11. #11
    I'm not sure why people say MM AoE is so bad. It's not great but as long as the targets are close enough to be multishottable MM AoE isn't too bad, assuming you take TotH, and it's not annoying to use like beast cleave. I've been using ToTH for aoe heavy fights and, during the single target phases of them, use arcane shot as my focus dump. ST or mostly ST fights I use dire beast and aimed as the focus dump and I do good DPS for my ilvl, it's tricky not focus capping using this rotation but once you get used to it's easy and fun.
    Last edited by 4fa; 2013-10-12 at 11:11 PM.

  12. #12
    @ Skygoneblue : A Murder of Crows is a physical debuff, you can't dispel it and you can't cloak it. You -can- Stoneform Blink Strikes however. :P

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fa View Post
    1. Crit vs haste reforging in pvp?
    2. Same question as above but in pve. Some sources say crit > haste others say haste > crit, I can't find a definitive answer.
    3. I've read about two viable pve rotations, one taking a thrill of the hunt and using AS as a focus dump80%> and the other taking dire beast and always using AiS as a focus dump being the difference. Which is better? I liked the AiS focus dump rotation a lot better.
    4. Blink strikes or AMOC for pve?
    5. See above but for pvp.
    6. Which two SoO trinkets are best for MM?

    Currently my ilvl is 525 but I have a 548 bow, no tier set bonuses either. I know MM is wep dependent but please don't tell me to go BM/surv until I have [insert trinket/wep/set bonus/ilvl here], I despise the other two specs so even if MM isn't nearly as good until a certain gear level I just want to know how to make the most out of it.
    1. dont pvp sorry
    2. Crit > haste > mastery
    3. I DB and used Aimed as my focus dump. Completely ignore arcane shot.
    4. aMoC
    5. see 1
    6. AoC and Haroms. TED is awful.

    My ilevel is a good deal higher then yours 559 and im rocking a normal mode 2x upgraded siege weapon. I was actually suprised how well MM plays now compared to god awful mess it was in cata. I only changed to it last week as a replacement for BM. Pulled 300k on thok which is more then ive managed as BM. MM is freaking abysmal at AoE so now I rock MM for single target fights and Surv for AoE heavy encounters.

    Strongly encourage players to give MM a try over BM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Skygoneblue View Post
    1. Mastery.
    LOL you're not a PvP'er. Mastery is for mongoloids and Arcane Shot spamming shitters. Crit->Haste for the excellent Hunter players which want to hardcast AimedShot and see REALLY good numbers and got a lot of instant AimedShots.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Walajanilu View Post
    Duirng the opener, i only use Aimed, Chimera, and steadyshot; once bloodlust fades, i go back to normal priority system, unless rapid fire is up again for some reason, or another haste buff.

    I dont think i've ever used GT during Careful Aim, it is best to dump as many aimed and chimera shots into the boss duirng this time.
    Would you mind giving a brief view of your opener? This could vary substantially with the amount of things MM hunters are trying to do at the start, establishing the 2x steady buff/rapid fire+stampede/DB/Serpent Sting, so an overview of how you start off a fight in Careful Aim phase would be awesome.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fa View Post
    There it is! In pretty much every thread asking something about MM(Been lurking these forums for a while, since around MoP release,) cap'n obvious comes to the rescue and tells the OP that they shouldn't go MM because BM and surv do better dps. Or lately since the buff it's been 'don't go MM until you have these pieces of gear'. I see it to a lesser extent on other class forums, where someone will ask for tips on playing a spec and the reply is 'don't play that spec until X".You know, because there's no way someone could be playing the spec because they...whats the word...enjoy playing it, and want to make the best of the playstyle they enjoy knowing full well they could be doing more playing two specs they don't find fun? In a video game? Nah, that's crazy talk.

    /rant

    Sorry, but seeing how hard of a concept it is to some people on these forums, that many people would sacrifice some DPS to play a spec they like rather than one they hate really boggles my mind.
    He just said he does not recommend it if you want to be top dps, nothing about the playstyle, and later he explained what to do with the spec to squeeze as much as possible. Don't see a reason to rant.

    My opinion: MM is very viable on single target fights, and one of the coolest things about it is that you can fuck around a bit with reforging to see what playetyle you like best without loosing much, while for example SV has a strict stat priority. Myself, I found Crit-Mastery builds the coolest, but I've a MM player who favoured Mastery and pulled some very nice numbers (I think he Arcaned as dump tho).

    But yeah, if you like the spec, it is more than viable in PvE, despite having apparently no niche at all (Careful Aim sucks, BM has bigger 100-80 burst anyway). Try different builds, different talent setups, see what works for you. I went Crit-Mastery, with Dire Beast, Blink Strikes (Murder feels really annoying with the focus sponge Careful Aim phase) and Powershot (suprisingly good at a bit higher haste and with good trinket lineups, tho I don't think it's better than Glaive dps wise) and the spec was quite fun to play with for a while.

  17. #17
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    I got a few hunter pvp questions, which pets do you use? I tend to use either my raptor( my fav, he has a saddle) if it is just double dps melee in 2s, and a sporebat against healers and casters. But what should I roll for rbgs?

    I switched from bm to mm/surv, and I love it. BM was such a boring play-style, with mm and surv you actually have to think. Also what glyphs do you run? And for surv Dire beast or TotH?
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    I got a few hunter pvp questions, which pets do you use? I tend to use either my raptor( my fav, he has a saddle) if it is just double dps melee in 2s, and a sporebat against healers and casters. But what should I roll for rbgs?

    I switched from bm to mm/surv, and I love it. BM was such a boring play-style, with mm and surv you actually have to think. Also what glyphs do you run? And for surv Dire beast or TotH?
    i wont give up a monkey or a crane for a looks pet on arenas, remember you can doublé cc with those pet on those comps where ppl tend to stack on the healer to eat the trap. explosive trap to Split them then scatter/pet cc the 2 ppl with a focus macro, launch trap.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Borega View Post
    LOL you're not a PvP'er. Mastery is for mongoloids and Arcane Shot spamming shitters. Crit->Haste for the excellent Hunter players which want to hardcast AimedShot and see REALLY good numbers and got a lot of instant AimedShots.
    I've seen numerous high ranking hunters reforging mastery. Quit posting like a moronic child.

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