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  1. #1

    Increase Battle Fatigue of tank specs to 80% in arena

    EDIT:

    Based on the excellent suggestions and feedback, I think the best idea (contributed by Baracuda) is the following:


    - All Tank specs will have Battle Fatigue increased by 80% (instead of the standard 55% for non-tanks) in Rated Arena. Tank specs in other areas of PVP will continue to have Battle Fatigue at 55%.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-09-30 at 02:21 PM.

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Remove Blood DKs from the game.

    Seriously though (in order to avoid trolling infraction for above comment)why not, I think anytime a blood dk is nerfed in pvp is good, for me as a warrior
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Arian21's Avatar
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    In my opinion tank-specced classes should not be allowed in arenas (i'm looking at you double blood dks) . 2 guildies of mine went from nothing to 2200 in a day 37-4 score or something .

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Arian21 View Post
    In my opinion tank-specced classes should not be allowed in arenas (i'm looking at you double blood dks) . 2 guildies of mine went from nothing to 2200 in a day 37-4 score or something .
    how did they lose 4 times?

    On topic: The Problem has nothing to do with Necrotic. You can literally turtle and selfheal for 15 minutes and you will get the "the crowd chose you". Against competent Players, the Blood Dks shouldnt land a kill - but you cant really kill them either if they know what they are doing.

  5. #5
    Just let tank specs take +50% damage in arena.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Arian21's Avatar
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    Oh forgot to mention crazy double healer teams like monk-monk, priest-monk or priest-priest ... they can't be killed and they certainly can do damage to "non-hybrids"

  7. #7
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    It would be better to wait till players are a bit better geared before you start trowing potential nerfs at tanks. People currently lack the dps to counter the increased resilience, once players get their conquest weapons, tanks should be less of a problem in arena.

  8. #8
    Tanks do not belong in Arenas.

  9. #9
    I agree with all of you, except Nicola. I'd love to see changes ranging from the extreme of not letting tanks queue for Arena - only (since they have some sort of a place in RBG) to taking more damage like in a RBG. However, trying to be realistic in that Blizzard won't end up doing something drastic. At least removing NS from Blood would be a start, not allowing them to actually have pressure, while not affecting PVE.

    Nicola, I don't think gear upgrades are going to have much of a difference in regards to Blood. Only Blood seems to have such pressure and it seems to be mainly because of NS + DRW. I think that one fix would help for the time being, in that it should be something hot fixed and not pro longed. Other changes that posters suggested could be implemented based on more time, however.

  10. #10
    Gods, are bloods still an issue? That's frustrating for sure. I thought many of the changes this patch were to address that.


    I've stated it plenty of times, but as long as the "tank tricks" of having high health and healing and being resistant to damage work against enemy players, dps needs ways around their great defenses. Once rogues and arms warriors have a small advantage over all tank specs, then you might have done your design right. Until then, back to work!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Gods, are bloods still an issue? That's frustrating for sure. I thought many of the changes this patch were to address that.


    I've stated it plenty of times, but as long as the "tank tricks" of having high health and healing and being resistant to damage work against enemy players, dps needs ways around their great defenses. Once rogues and arms warriors have a small advantage over all tank specs, then you might have done your design right. Until then, back to work!
    Bloods are an issue because of the 15 minute Crowd buff. They do damage and might not kill anything, but the other team will have the lowest health come 15 minutes therefore losing the game.
    Last edited by Cirayne24; 2013-09-29 at 06:22 PM.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I agree with all of you, except Nicola. I'd love to see changes ranging from the extreme of not letting tanks queue for Arena - only (since they have some sort of a place in RBG) to taking more damage like in a RBG. However, trying to be realistic in that Blizzard won't end up doing something drastic. At least removing NS from Blood would be a start, not allowing them to actually have pressure, while not affecting PVE.

    Nicola, I don't think gear upgrades are going to have much of a difference in regards to Blood. Only Blood seems to have such pressure and it seems to be mainly because of NS + DRW. I think that one fix would help for the time being, in that it should be something hot fixed and not pro longed. Other changes that posters suggested could be implemented based on more time, however.
    Or maybe higher fatigue/lower resi for tanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    Or maybe higher fatigue/lower resi for tanks.
    That's an excellent idea. They really should address TCCY because non-tanks are abusing it too, but for this particular problem i think this solves it nicely. Make tank specs have a much higher battle fatigue percentage. This cuts directly into Blood survivability in PVP. Remove NS from Blood and no more pressure. That should just about hit two birds with one stone.

  14. #14
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I agree with all of you, except Nicola. I'd love to see changes ranging from the extreme of not letting tanks queue for Arena - only (since they have some sort of a place in RBG) to taking more damage like in a RBG. However, trying to be realistic in that Blizzard won't end up doing something drastic. At least removing NS from Blood would be a start, not allowing them to actually have pressure, while not affecting PVE.

    Nicola, I don't think gear upgrades are going to have much of a difference in regards to Blood. Only Blood seems to have such pressure and it seems to be mainly because of NS + DRW. I think that one fix would help for the time being, in that it should be something hot fixed and not pro longed. Other changes that posters suggested could be implemented based on more time, however.
    I understand your point. Right now, Blood Death Knights are in a very good spot, for 2s at least, not so much for 3s and a lot of that has to do with the recent buffs to Resilience and because no one is geared yet.

    So say, you nerf Blood Death Knights in arena by having them take more damage, do less healing or even remove an ability and you put them back to the spot where they can't get past 1.5k rating. That's gear but suddenly Mr Warrior gets his Grievious weapon and does 30% more damage and completely destroys any Blood Death Knight he sees. Now why is that? Well, I'll tell you. Blood Death Knights, or any tank for the matter, scale a lot worse with gear and weapons than actual dps specs.

    Trust me, wait a bit till the majority gets their conquest weapons and you'll see that Blood Death Knights will be less of an issue.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    I understand your point. Right now, Blood Death Knights are in a very good spot, for 2s at least, not so much for 3s and a lot of that has to do with the recent buffs to Resilience and because no one is geared yet.

    So say, you nerf Blood Death Knights in arena by having them take more damage, do less healing or even remove an ability and you put them back to the spot where they can't get past 1.5k rating. That's gear but suddenly Mr Warrior gets his Grievious weapon and does 30% more damage and completely destroys any Blood Death Knight he sees. Now why is that? Well, I'll tell you. Blood Death Knights, or any tank for the matter, scale a lot worse with gear and weapons than actual dps specs.

    Trust me, wait a bit till the majority gets their conquest weapons and you'll see that Blood Death Knights will be less of an issue.
    While I understand the waiting part (well, knowing Blizzard it's not like we have a choice, do we? - they're not known to respond quickly to pvp matters), I don't think there's any problem with Blood not being viable in arena. Blizzard themselves have stated that they don't like the idea of tanks in pvp. This would just be acting on it. Warriors being strong is a different story for a different thread.

    Make tanks non-viable (Baracuda's idea was best), maybe pay some attention to Warriors, alter TCCY and you're well on your way to a decent season.

  16. #16
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arian21 View Post
    Oh forgot to mention crazy double healer teams like monk-monk, priest-monk or priest-priest ... they can't be killed and they certainly can do damage to "non-hybrids"
    PvP Power does not affect Damage Done for Healing specs.
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  17. #17

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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenX View Post
    Says the warrior that has forgotten where his/her disarm button is...
    Heard Mortal Strike's still a thing too..or Stuns.
    But seirously though, if you aren't actively kiting them with dots going off or stunlocking with burst...a NS costs a Death Rune, so, that's half a potential DS. With the Vengence change in..4.2 I think..there wouldn't be any real AP to make the healing absorb any decent. If you're letting him loose, and not stunning, disarming, disorienating, fearing..even kiting around, then you're kind of not doing it right imo. If you don't let him hit you, you only have the burst heal(if he chooses it) or a 10% heal now and again..And a 5.1 change where the minimum DS healing isn't increased by PvP damage..You're only dealing with him doing 7% of his health(40% more if he does Vampiric Blood) IF he hits something.

    But even if it was like the change that completely makes them out of Arena..unless Blizzard splits PvP and PvE, Blood looses the ability to apply the casting debuff in PvE. Plus there's still some places where the absorb can be handy considering there's like atleast two fights in SoO with Healer Adds.

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZehGeek View Post
    Heard Mortal Strike's still a thing too..or Stuns.
    But seirously though, if you aren't actively kiting them with dots going off or stunlocking with burst...a NS costs a Death Rune, so, that's half a potential DS. With the Vengence change in..4.2 I think..there wouldn't be any real AP to make the healing absorb any decent. If you're letting him loose, and not stunning, disarming, disorienating, fearing..even kiting around, then you're kind of not doing it right imo. If you don't let him hit you, you only have the burst heal(if he chooses it) or a 10% heal now and again..And a 5.1 change where the minimum DS healing isn't increased by PvP damage..You're only dealing with him doing 7% of his health(40% more if he does Vampiric Blood) IF he hits something.

    But even if it was like the change that completely makes them out of Arena..unless Blizzard splits PvP and PvE, Blood looses the ability to apply the casting debuff in PvE. Plus there's still some places where the absorb can be handy considering there's like atleast two fights in SoO with Healer Adds.
    Vengeance was actually changed to not trigger from player damage back in Cataclysm, around 4.1 or 4.2. That's why the other tank specs struggle in PvP, yet Blood DKs work due to their kit.

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