Thread: Iron Juggernaut

  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Iron Juggernaut

    Can anyone tell me why, on tonight's Iron Juggernaut Flex raid, the average melee hit was 120k and the average block was 100k?

    I can't find anything in the Raid Journal that would explain this. For all other fights, the average block was lower than 70% of the average hit (as it should be due to mastery). This result makes no sense to me.

    This is the log.

  2. #2
    Might be because you hardly blocked (=small sample size) and the ignite armor debuff will increase his melee damage. You used shield block only once all evening and 27hs with only 13 proccs (= a lot of wasted rage and a dps loss due to a lot of shield slams without SB up).

    You could decrease your damage taken and increase your DPS by using shield block and barrier. Just try to keep shield block up when tanking him (and use it before you ragecap when offtanking and still have some vengeance left) and use barrier before he uses ignite armor.


    EDIT: I am stupid. was sure the debuff would reduce armor as well :/
    Last edited by meteo; 2013-10-10 at 09:39 PM.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    Might be because you hardly blocked (=small sample size)
    In theory, this should be irrelevant. Blocking should stop either 30% or 60% of damage. The only way this would be a possible factor is if the melee damage is highly variable. And even then, it seems unlikely, which is why I asked this in the first place. Even assuming no critical blocks, an average of 100k on a block implies 142k before the block. The disparity between 111 hits at 120k and 22 hits at 142k (technically, higher) assuming uniform distribution has a t-value of about 3.55 and a corresponding p-value of under 0.002 which is low enough that I'm looking for answers OTHER than "one in a five hundred chance on your first night fighting this boss ever ever".

    I am willing to accept RNG only after exhausting other possible choices, because again, it seems highly unlikely, even including the small sample size, that this happened by chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    and the ignite armor debuff will increase his melee damage.
    The raid journal, wowhead, and wowdb disagree. They say nothing about melee damage, only flame damage. Further, I looked through the Log Browser and saw no evidence of melee hits doing more damage when Ignite Armor was up. In fact, every melee hit doing under 100k total damage was while I had Ignite Armor. And besides, even if Ignite Armor did increase melee damage, that should have been displayed in the melee damage blocked or not, and I still would have taken 70% or lower damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteo View Post
    You used shield block only once all evening
    No, I only used Shield Block once in the first three pulls. I disconnected in the fourth, and forgot to start logging again. You might also notice in the second and third pulls, the other tank got destroyed almost immediately, even without stepping on a single mine? I am nowhere near heroic caliber, but trust me when I say I play significantly better when a wipe isn't 100% about to happen. And again, I could have somehow magically kept Shield Block up 100% of the time and it still would not answer my original question.

    I've gone through all of the blocks I can find and each one individually seems to be 30% or 60%. I'm just concerned why the average doesn't match up, again, considering how well it matches up on every other boss's melee hits I've looked at.

    EDIT: I'm starting to think worldoflogs itself is the problem. I have now found five other logs in various N/H 10/25 stages with blocking tanks, and in all of them, the blocking damage was WAY off. Anyone else have this issue? There must be at least one other warrior tank who's logged an Iron Juggernaut kill at any skill level on this forum...
    Last edited by Breccia; 2013-10-10 at 06:19 PM.

  4. #4
    I'm having a hard time figuring out where you're getting your numbers.

    Looking at Try 2, the longest attempt you have in your logs, I'm seeing the average melee hit as being 124k and the average block as being 55k. I think your problem is that you're looking at all of your attempts and, I shouldn't have to point this out, short attempts do not make for good averages.

    Give us better logs and we can give you better answers.

    edit: or, yes, WoL has some kind of a logging problem with this fight.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    or, yes, WoL has some kind of a logging problem with this fight.
    S#%*. I hate working with bad tools.

  6. #6
    Warchief Odina's Avatar
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    Here is my Iron jug log on normal... seems fine..

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...4#tab-dmgspell

    I would like to point out your combined weakend blows uptime on the boss with your co tank... seems like your getting hit by some full dmg swings in there and that could be why you see the disparity as most other logs will have virtually 100% uptime on that debuff between the two tanks to make sure we arent taking full hits!
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-10-10 at 07:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    It seems unlikely that I just happened to block the attacks during the full damage swings.

    At this point, I'm just going to assume that WoL can't add properly and move on to other problems. Thanks for your help.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    Here is my Iron jug log on normal... seems fine..
    No, it does not seem to be fine, in fact your log pointed at something I saw while looking into the problem.

    You took 31 unblocked hits. Their average damage was 149k.
    You took 18 blocked hits. Their average damage was 173k.
    There is no way you can possibly convince me that's mathematically possible in this fight. WoL is having issues with the Iron Juggernaut and tracking blocking damage.

  8. #8
    Warchief Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It seems unlikely that I just happened to block the attacks during the full damage swings.

    At this point, I'm just going to assume that WoL can't add properly and move on to other problems. Thanks for your help.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, it does not seem to be fine, in fact your log pointed at something I saw while looking into the problem.

    You took 31 unblocked hits. Their average damage was 149k.
    You took 18 blocked hits. Their average damage was 173k.
    There is no way you can possibly convince me that's mathematically possible in this fight. WoL is having issues with the Iron Juggernaut and tracking blocking damage.
    Yea just looked at it again and it's as thouhh the blocked dmg and unblocked dmg have been swapped spots.

    something is deff wierd... looks liek blocks and crit blocks are not affected however I get abotu the same block numbers reguardless of stacks
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...3D+%22Odina%22

    - - - Updated - - -

    Found where it's coming from now to find what the hell that 500k hit is from throwing off the calculation

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...3D+%22Odina%22

    Can't say for sure but looks like the bombs dmg is being tossed into a melee hit when it's being blocked ... pretty sure that dmg is blockable and it's registered as physical dmg. Only thing I can think of that hits that hard that consitently and looking at my logs our pallie tank has the same mysterious melee hits being blocked.
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-10-10 at 09:52 PM.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    I was this close to the same conclusion. Yes, it does look like the bombs are messing with things. Good catch.

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