Page 6 of 12 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
... LastLast
  1. #101
    All I see here is complains about people being restrictive to prevent their group having too much of a problem. The lower the iLvl and experience minimum expectation, the higher the likelihood of a group having issues.

    If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to run your own group using OpenRaid/oQueue/Trade Chat and run a group your own way. It's not as easy as it looks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When I run a group, I make the minimum around what my character is, ie. for Flex, I expect people that are 530+, but I prefer higher as I don't like being in a Flex which has an LFR situation, if I'm more than double the second place on DPS, I'm doing too much work in comparison to the other players in the group. (My toons are 550, but 530 is more than reasonable for a geared Flex group)

    Likewise though, if someone is 510-520 and they want players that are 530+, they're just looking for a carry.
    Updating my signature from my WoD characters.

    Yikes.

    Probably better than you, probably also a casual these days. Go on, keep being elitist.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Oxyra View Post
    All I see here is complains about people being restrictive to prevent their group having too much of a problem. The lower the iLvl and experience minimum expectation, the higher the likelihood of a group having issues.

    If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to run your own group using OpenRaid/oQueue/Trade Chat and run a group your own way. It's not as easy as it looks.
    Actually it is just as easy as it looks. Ive created my own groups with more humane ilvls several times and most of the times they are just as successful. The worst players are those who think gear will cover up their poor skills.

    Another mistake many do is to invite 10 completely random players instead of inviting 2 players who then get 5 of their own trusted friends in.

  3. #103
    I for one want to do flex fast and smooth, so if I make a group on my geared alts I will usually put 530+ or 535+ requirement and "be experienced" note in OQ and if Im just going to join one, Im of course trying to get in to one with the highest requirements.

    What is the problem with high ilvl people wanting other high ilvl people in their flex groups? Are people with lower gear entitled to a boost run somehow? Hmm?
    Last edited by Musta Kyy; 2013-10-10 at 03:32 PM.
    | Ryzen R7 5800X | Radeon RX 6800 |

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Actually it is just as easy as it looks. Ive created my own groups with more humane ilvls several times and most of the times they are just as successful. The worst players are those who think gear will cover up their poor skills.

    Another mistake many do is to invite 10 completely random players instead of inviting 2 players who then get 5 of their own trusted friends in.


    I will say flex overall is pretty easy, but many will run into road blocks on at least one boss or two unless you try to filter people that have decent gear, at this point, timeless isle is a pretty easy way to gear up, having 535 or close to it shouldn't be a problem. I did it one time on my main with a random group, I was doing 300k dps, compared to people pulling 40k to 80k, after 6 wipes I gave up lol. Not saying everyone needs to do 250k, but it's much better to have a group of guys that have established they know what is going on.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Actually it is just as easy as it looks. Ive created my own groups with more humane ilvls several times and most of the times they are just as successful.
    I dont know what you consider humane ilvl requirements, but if you try to do flex 2nd or 3rd part with 510-515 ilvl people, you are going to have a bad time.

    On average people with better gear will perform better and know tactics better than those with low gear.
    Last edited by Musta Kyy; 2013-10-10 at 03:30 PM.
    | Ryzen R7 5800X | Radeon RX 6800 |

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by arel00 View Post
    You have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously.
    Put a good (for real) player against the average retard and you'll see wonders despite 40 ilevels gear difference. High class players mop the floor with everyone else on a regular basis.
    I could outdps any dps with 40 ilvls below me with my eyes closed while spamming 1 single castsequence macro. There is no way on earth you can make up 40 ilvls with skill unless the other player is afk half the fight or dc's. I'm convinced about this.

    I would really prefer trying to do garrosh heroic with a mediocre group of players with 580 ilvl then with 24 method members in 540 ilvl. I'm also quite sure which group would kill him quicker.

  7. #107
    Group creator simply wants to be carried. Excuses like "but I want a smooth run" are just that.

    Create your own, it will be easy to find willing participants.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    Not having to deal with such nonsense is exactly the reason why LFR should never be removed in favor of flex. It's just as ridiculous as PUGing ICC was.
    There's no cure for stupid. On my server you can see folks requesting 530 for heroic scenarios.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgsnstuff View Post
    I dont know what you consider humane ilvl requirements, but if you try to do flex 2nd or 3rd part with 510-515 ilvl people, you are going to have a bad time.

    On average people with better gear will perform better and know tactics better than those with low gear.
    You know alot of players do flex on their alts? That means they often know everything on normal. Of course if you take group thats completely new to the entire instance you're going to have trouble. But someone with ToT 13/13 HC and ilvl 552 ish can still be completely new to the instance. So no the chance is not higher. it all depends on what people you get. Poorly geared alts perform better than tot people with timeless and some HC pieces in general. it's completely silly to solely have ilvl 540+ requirements. If you do without evaluating the different players one by one you're a poor leader.

  9. #109
    All this talk of setting excessively high ilvl/exp requirements because people don't want to "carry bads". I don't think you can classify someone as being carried if they are appropriately tuned for the instance (528 ilvl coming out of lfr, maybe a little more with legendary). Assuming a correct rotation, they're doing as much dps as they should be to clear the content.

  10. #110
    Elemental Lord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,389
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    What's wrong with wanting an easy run?
    I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting an easy run.

    What I do fear is a trend, a growing culture of ignorance among other people seeing these kinds of advertisements and it leading to problems for people trying to participate in content, much like the problems caused by gearscore back during WotLK.

    As long as most people understand that 540 is way overkill for flex, things will be fine. But if everyone starts to expect that as the norm, it will become a problem that causes unrealistic expectations resulting in frustration.

    In order to obtain ilevel 540 someone needs to be doing at least flex raiding. If you can't get into flex because everyone thinks you need 540, how are you going to get there?

    Another issue is when a group wipes a few times, noobs might end up calling to kick the guy in ilevel 530 because that must be why we're failing.


    So yeah, while some raid leaders can feel free to place whatever requirements they want on their flex raids, most need to keep a sense of perspective and keep their demands a little more realistic, or the entire flex raiding scene will suffer as a result...

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I will say flex overall is pretty easy, but many will run into road blocks on at least one boss or two unless you try to filter people that have decent gear, at this point, timeless isle is a pretty easy way to gear up, having 535 or close to it shouldn't be a problem. I did it one time on my main with a random group, I was doing 300k dps, compared to people pulling 40k to 80k, after 6 wipes I gave up lol. Not saying everyone needs to do 250k, but it's much better to have a group of guys that have established they know what is going on.
    true, but even with ilvl 520 most people can do 150k ish dps without effort which is fine for the bosses released so far. the enrage is not tightly tuned at all for flex. ive done it with 520ish group and I think we only wiped once on malkorok and spoils(before adjusting the groups) and two times on thok. part 1 and part2 was a breeze mostly.

  12. #112
    There are more and more threads like this one every day and it's really starting to get old.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't seen a single flex raid advertising with these kinds of requirements. Yes, I have seen some that want you to have normal kills (but, keep in mind, we're up to 11/14 on Flex, not 14/14) and some with 520-535 ilvl requirements, but never both at the same time and, quite frankly, rarely even either of those.

    There are plenty of flex raids available, on openraid or oqueue if nothing else, that require little to nothing except for whispering the person and asking for an invite. You are all free to join those while the rest of us, who have killed the bosses on normal and already have high item levels, are free to join the more "elite" speed clear flex raids.

    You are also perfectly welcome to start your own flex raids without any kind of requirements whatsoever. I'll continue to join the best ones I can find, though and I'll continue to support those that have strict requirements.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
    Dragonslayer Kooqu

  13. #113
    Elemental Lord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,389
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    I could outdps any dps with 40 ilvls below me with my eyes closed while spamming 1 single castsequence macro. There is no way on earth you can make up 40 ilvls with skill unless the other player is afk half the fight or dc's. I'm convinced about this.
    Well sort of. There is a theoretical limit to how much dps it is possible to do regardless of skill. The better the player, the closer they get to that limit. I think a 40 ilevel difference probably increases that cap by more than 100%.

    There are definitely players out there so bad that they will be beaten by people 40 ilevels below them. But they are not that common in the raiding environment. Most people raiding normal modes will be performing sufficiently well with their gear that they will be above the theoretical maximum achievable at 40 ilevels lower.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    There are more and more threads like this one every day and it's really starting to get old.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't seen a single flex raid advertising with these kinds of requirements. Yes, I have seen some that want you to have normal kills (but, keep in mind, we're up to 11/14 on Flex, not 14/14) and some with 520-535 ilvl requirements, but never both at the same time and, quite frankly, rarely even either of those.

    There are plenty of flex raids available, on openraid or oqueue if nothing else, that require little to nothing except for whispering the person and asking for an invite. You are all free to join those while the rest of us, who have killed the bosses on normal and already have high item levels, are free to join the more "elite" speed clear flex raids.

    You are also perfectly welcome to start your own flex raids without any kind of requirements whatsoever. I'll continue to join the best ones I can find, though.
    Ive killed all on normal, but I want to do flex on my alts since I dont need any loot on my main. What am I supposed to do with my alt then if everything that matter is ilvl? Oh my ilvl is only 525, then I cant do flex since the requirement is ilvl 535. That's whats silly with these kinds of requirements. just like gear check all over again. Don't you understand peoples frustration here? I used to get rejected even if I posted my main achivements -"sorry too low" or just ignore. Haha ilvl 525 too low? its just laughable

  15. #115
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    There's no cure for stupid. On my server you can see folks requesting 530 for heroic scenarios.
    Right. But such things once again show why LFR is and always will be very popular.
    Even though an iLvL requirement of 530 for Flex wouldn't be a big deal for me, I wouldn't join such a group. Because I can't be bothered to be reliant on someone's favor.

  16. #116
    Elemental Lord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,389
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    You know alot of players do flex on their alts? That means they often know everything on normal. Of course if you take group thats completely new to the entire instance you're going to have trouble. But someone with ToT 13/13 HC and ilvl 552 ish can still be completely new to the instance.
    Someone who cleared 13/13HC ToT is very likely to do well in SoO, regardless of how much they know about the fight coming into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    So no the chance is not higher.
    Of course the chance of someone performing better is higher the better their gear. No, they are not guaranteed to be better, but statistically given two random people, odds favour the better geared person to perform better.

    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    it all depends on what people you get. Poorly geared alts perform better than tot people with timeless and some HC pieces in general.
    Poorly geared alts can perform better than better geared toons played by less experienced players. That does not mean they will. Nor does it mean that every poorly geared toon has a great main...

    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    it's completely silly to solely have ilvl 540+ requirements. If you do without evaluating the different players one by one you're a poor leader.
    I don't disagree :P

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Someone who cleared 13/13HC ToT is very likely to do well in SoO, regardless of how much they know about the fight coming into it.



    Of course the chance of someone performing better is higher the better their gear. No, they are not guaranteed to be better, but statistically given two random people, odds favour the better geared person to perform better.
    you cant use odds in these situations. odds only work if you pick a random bunch of players and group them up. But who does that? Seem stupid if you ask me just to look at the ilvl and ignore everything else like experience and possibly achivements. Takes little effort to evaluate the indiviudual players a little before going in. A more intresting question would be: would you take a ilvl 545 ToT player without any SoO experience over a ilvl 520 player(alt) with normal SoO experience?

  18. #118
    One of the best things i have run across lately is a buddys alt. 525 geared shadow priest, and people wont let him into 530 groups. Mind you we are 10/14 normal and they were only doing first 2 wing. I couldnt believe it, reminded me of the ICC Gear score days. ZOMG your not 5400 GS then you cant down Normal 10m ICC

  19. #119
    If you want a smooth run, experience is FAR more important than item level. A player that has HC ToT gear but just started playing in 5.4 will cause more wipes than the average normal alt/ Flex 11/14 experienced player, I guarantee you. Even if you're really good read up most players will cause a few wipes by just standing at the wrong place as newcomers.

  20. #120
    Its clear that people don't remember the days of pugging trade/general to form groups for Kara. People did the same thing back then when they had to make their own groups, and its always going to happen when PEOPLE make groups, not some random selection process based on your role. Every person knows what they do and do not want to deal with, its as simple as that.

    Flex is bringing the days of talking with your server, or hell people from across different realms (thanks Openraid!) back! This was Blizz's intention, was to get people involved into their realm community again. LFR for the most part destroyed this. Flex has been a huge hit, and I feel it wont be around for next expansion if Flex keeps going the way it does.

    As many people have stated above, if you dont like it, im sorry, but to each their own. Nothing you can do to change what one person sets as a requirement. Flex =/= LFR

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •