1. #1

    [Resto] Siege of Orgrimmar Trinkets

    I'm sorry if this was already discussed, but I couldn't find it and searched a bit on the forums.

    I was looking at Thok's Acid-Grooved Tooth (Cleave) vs. Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia (Multistrike) and couldn't really know: wich one is the best for Resto Druids? I thought maybe the cleave one, since we are raid healers, but maybe, proccing on each tick, multistrike may be better for the proc chance.

    What are your thoughts? Wich one is really better and why?

    Note: I intend in using one of these with the AMP one since I don't have mut trouble with mana.

    Thanks guys!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by borja View Post
    I'm sorry if this was already discussed, but I couldn't find it and searched a bit on the forums.

    I was looking at Thok's Acid-Grooved Tooth (Cleave) vs. Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia (Multistrike) and couldn't really know: wich one is the best for Resto Druids? I thought maybe the cleave one, since we are raid healers, but maybe, proccing on each tick, multistrike may be better for the proc chance.

    What are your thoughts? Wich one is really better and why?

    Note: I intend in using one of these with the AMP one since I don't have mut trouble with mana.

    Thanks guys!
    I have the multistrike upgraded and It healed for 2.5%-4% depends on boss.
    For my gear 4% healing is like 1700 static int.
    The upgraded blackfuse trinket gives 2111 int and ~2111 spirit
    So I would say the blackfuse trinket is better than the multistrike as I prefer static int to proc'ed int and I can always reforge spirit to mastery/haste.
    I don't have the cleave trinket but I heard that it's quite good for encounters that the raid stacks.

  3. #3
    Blademaster zofa's Avatar
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    I've been using the cleave and multistrike at the same time, since the other trinkets does not seem to drop.
    A multistrike trinket will generally always be between 3-4% of your total healing, and the cleave is a lot based on what boss you are fighting.
    I've seen cleave at <0,3% on immersius, and as high as 8% on fights with a lot of stacking.
    I'd say go for the cleave trinket since it's higher or equal to multistrike on most bosses, but bear in mind that it's worthless on some..

  4. #4
    - Dysmorphic (Siegecrafter) for Mana, it's the new HLG, I'd definitely use that one
    - if you are really low on mana and/or play with low spirit, stack Dys & HLG HC 2/2 if you like (shouldn't be worth it tho)
    - Prismatic Pride is another nice regen trinket and it lowers your required haste for both breakpoints, consider to use that and reforge accordingly

    All those trinket do not generate extra throughput, therefore you might take cleave or multistrike. Cleave is better if it procs for 2+ targets, single-target multistrike is much better. Hamlet from EJ has some really nice analysis on those trinkets, watch his blog or the thread on EJ.

    The best situation imho is: use dys and choose between cleave/multistrike depending on the fight, cleave being slightly ahead in most cases. HLG should not be needed and prismatic pride does not offer enough throughput to compare with cleave/multistrike.

    - please correct me if that information is wrong -
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  5. #5
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    The multistrike trinket provides less total healing than the cleave trinket, but is much more reliable. Cleave will happen occasionally and may or may not be useful, while multistrike will proc at least once per second as a druid. Both suffer from having a large part of their item budget wasted on a completely unreliable intellect proc with a horribly low uptime, so neither is all that great compared to something with static intellect.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  6. #6
    The AMP is basically a must. After that I'd go with the multistrike. As was said, the cleave is really mediocre and not worth it at all.

    Multistrike isn't the best, but it's not the worst either.

  7. #7
    I don't think you're accounting for overheal with the "1700 Int = 4% increase" and I know your "2.5-4%" estimate is after reducing for overheal. Multistrike's pre-overhealing increase should be pretty simple. Take the % on your trinket and divide it by 3. So a 561 Nazgrim's is 15.1/3= 5.0333333% healing increase.

    The size of your heals shouldn't really matter for Thok's and Nazgrim's. Thok's proc is less common so it will be more prone to variation in its performance, but with all our HoTs we really do so many heals per second that procs should happen pretty regularly.

    Thok's does more healing than Nazgrim's if it averages more than 1.5 splash targets -- again, this math is pretty simple.

    Comparing 553s:
    Nazgrim: 14/3 = 4.66666666667%
    Thok: 3.1* #number of targets = % healing increase
    3.1x = 4.66666667
    x = 1.5054

    Many fights encourage heavy stacking but for fights where the raid is frequently spread out Thok's is unusable. It will be undeniably the best trinket for Sha and of course Thok and competitive on many other fights, but it is the only trinket that will have a chance of being terrible depending on your strat/raid comp.

    --

    It's interesting to look at the Blackfuse trinket as a Haste/Mastery increase, but I think it will probably be hard to actually convert Spirit to Haste/Mastery that easily. Since Haste has to reach a breakpoint and most gear will already be reforged to maximize Mastery after attaining that breakpoint it seems like it will be difficult to do except with Spirit/Haste gear where you already need all of its Haste. For any other piece of gear, you'll probably be turning Spirit into Crit -- which isn't terrible when compared to the Int procs on all the other healing trinkets, but it's not quite as great.

    --

    Prismatic Prison of Pride should be competitive with Nazgrim's throughput unless your gear is very low while providing some mana (though significantly less than Blackfuse) and it should become significantly better than Nazgrim's as your ilvl climbs past 560.

  8. #8
    Currently running amp and HLG, will switch to siegecrafter trinket when our next one drops. I'd be very very tempted by the cleave trinket for Norushen and Thok, but that is about it.

    I would feel very uncomfortable dropping a regen trinket at this point in progression, and I would imagine that given the choice, few other druids would either.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Skagasm View Post
    I don't think you're accounting for overheal with the "1700 Int = 4% increase" and I know your "2.5-4%" estimate is after reducing for overheal. Multistrike's pre-overhealing increase should be pretty simple. Take the % on your trinket and divide it by 3. So a 561 Nazgrim's is 15.1/3= 5.0333333% healing increase.

    The size of your heals shouldn't really matter for Thok's and Nazgrim's. Thok's proc is less common so it will be more prone to variation in its performance, but with all our HoTs we really do so many heals per second that procs should happen pretty regularly.

    Thok's does more healing than Nazgrim's if it averages more than 1.5 splash targets -- again, this math is pretty simple.

    Comparing 553s:
    Nazgrim: 14/3 = 4.66666666667%
    Thok: 3.1* #number of targets = % healing increase
    3.1x = 4.66666667
    x = 1.5054

    Many fights encourage heavy stacking but for fights where the raid is frequently spread out Thok's is unusable. It will be undeniably the best trinket for Sha and of course Thok and competitive on many other fights, but it is the only trinket that will have a chance of being terrible depending on your strat/raid comp.

    --

    It's interesting to look at the Blackfuse trinket as a Haste/Mastery increase, but I think it will probably be hard to actually convert Spirit to Haste/Mastery that easily. Since Haste has to reach a breakpoint and most gear will already be reforged to maximize Mastery after attaining that breakpoint it seems like it will be difficult to do except with Spirit/Haste gear where you already need all of its Haste. For any other piece of gear, you'll probably be turning Spirit into Crit -- which isn't terrible when compared to the Int procs on all the other healing trinkets, but it's not quite as great.

    --

    Prismatic Prison of Pride should be competitive with Nazgrim's throughput unless your gear is very low while providing some mana (though significantly less than Blackfuse) and it should become significantly better than Nazgrim's as your ilvl climbs past 560.
    "1700 Int = 4% increase" is an increase in raw healing output.
    I'd say that it's very close to 4% effective healing because most likely if the heal/hot tick does not overheal, it won't overheal even if it's 4% stronger.
    And yes you can convert spirit to haste/mastery easily. Unless you have already reforged every piece of gear out of spirit.
    I really consider spirit/mastery/haste is kind of interchangeable.
    Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-10-10 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skagasm View Post
    Many fights encourage heavy stacking but for fights where the raid is frequently spread out Thok's is unusable. It will be undeniably the best trinket for Sha and of course Thok and competitive on many other fights, but it is the only trinket that will have a chance of being terrible depending on your strat/raid comp.
    I suppose it comes down to what the actual range of Thok is. I can't find any reliable numbers for it. But unless it's 50 yards or more, your conclusions are probably accurate: use Thok's trinket when stacked and use Nazgrim's trinket when spread out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skagasm View Post
    It's interesting to look at the Blackfuse trinket as a Haste/Mastery increase, but I think it will probably be hard to actually convert Spirit to Haste/Mastery that easily.
    It's going to depend on your current reforging. You probably have at least one item with spirit that you haven't reforged, allowing you to drop some spirit there in favor of something. That something may be crit, but the spirit proc should still never be entirely wasted. If you stack haste and have at least one item with spirit+mastery where you've reforged the mastery to haste, you can turn the extra spirit into mastery by changing the reforge to spirit=>haste.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  11. #11
    I'm going after Sha+Blackfuse trinkets then stuffing my face with the necessary Haste items to go the 13136 breakpoint.

  12. #12
    The best trinkets, without question, are the Siegecrafter trinket and the Sha trinket. The PPP is so good I can't even believe it's real. Beyond godtier.

    The only other trinket that is MAYBE worth equipping is Thok's cleave trinket on Norushen and Thok (maybe Galakras if you are having trouble in the Boss phase). And Norushen is such a stupidly easy fight it really does not matter.

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