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  1. #221
    Remove holy power (I know, won't happen).

  2. #222
    bring back the old daybreak. 20% chance on fol, hl, and dl cast to make next holy shock not trigger a cd. i never knew how much i'd miss it until it was gone. a lot of other changes all added up to me switching mains in mop, but if the old daybreak ever comes back, i might consider switching back. i miss my holy pal a lot.

  3. #223
    The Patient Vanderez's Avatar
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    I'd actually love to an ability that serves as a gap closer for retribution in PvP (Even though I don't PvP much). Something like throwing a hammer that, like Hunters Glaive Toss, is flying forward to its target and then returns. But the return of the hammer should knock the target closer to you, again, like hunters Powershot does, only reverse in direction.

    Other than that I like playing my paladin as Retribution and Protection. Although it would be nice to have a talent that took off the various Hand abilities off the GCD.

  4. #224
    I dunno, I feel like Paladins are in a pretty good place. Maybe clean up the abilities a bit? Add a few cool shinies? Not much needs to change really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    More fun gameplay, Ret and Prot is quite boring and dull when it comes to gameplay
    I like both of them, MoP made me enjoy Prot Pallies a LOT more than previous expansions.
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  5. #225
    give me undead pallies. that's all

  6. #226
    Well they always tend to make pretty hefty changes with each expansion. So here's my general guess:

    They'll swap around our gear priorities. Making ret more crit centered to distinguish specific choices we make in gear and enhancement of that gear for Prot. Prot meanwhile will remain haste-centric.

    Other than that I don't foresee much in the way of changes. Paladins are in a pretty good place as far as priority/rotation and I haven't seen anything in the new talents that would really change much of that.

    Also I'm just betting on ret/prot, I don't have any dogs in the holy race.

  7. #227
    The return of shockadins! I'd switch my off spec between ret and holy now and then just to have fun with that. :P

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Well they always tend to make pretty hefty changes with each expansion. So here's my general guess:

    They'll swap around our gear priorities. Making ret more crit centered to distinguish specific choices we make in gear and enhancement of that gear for Prot. Prot meanwhile will remain haste-centric. .
    From the example given, it seems they're keeping Ret on haste so they can differentiate Holy through crit, otherwise it would be kind of a dumb example. Also comments about Spirit not being as important for healers (of particular interest to Paladins, since there probably aren't going to be plate spirit boots, belt, or bracers ever again). That hints at bringing back the old-school Illumination passive in some form. Dodge and parry are gone too and they said they wanted to keep avoidance somehow, so I suspect crit will become the avoidance stat for tanks, granting increased dodge when critically hitting with certain attacks.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  9. #229
    I'm happy with my pally. I would love a more or less viable shockadin spec and more paladin like tiersets, thats all. HoPo has turned out as a great addition imho.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    give me undead pallies. that's all
    I see this all the time and it hurts my brain.

    How does holy and undead mix together??

    At least they used the sun as an excuse for Tauren, but I don't ever see undead working out.
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

  11. #231
    Nightelf Paladins! /period

  12. #232
    Ret is fun and nothing Major needs change imho, perhaps Just better on demand aoe not dependant on CDs and hopo. Removing Seal of aoe silyness aswell.

    Holy is terrible atm. Spamming an aoe spell mainly for holypower even if its not realy needed at all situations is clunky and doesnt feel optmized. Eternal flame spamming is also ackward. Spec feels realy clunky, doesnt make sense.

    Prot is realy fun but feels it needs a mini charge for more mobility

  13. #233
    Banned anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    I see this all the time and it hurts my brain.

    How does holy and undead mix together??

    At least they used the sun as an excuse for Tauren, but I don't ever see undead working out.
    How does priest and undead mix together? Oh wait

  14. #234
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    How does priest and undead mix together? Oh wait
    Most of the undead have abandoned the Light, which has seemingly abandoned them. Many Forsaken now follow the Shadow, a twisted reinterpretation of the Light
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

  15. #235
    Brewmaster Eace's Avatar
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    Revamp Holy because it sucks balls. As do pretty much all healers at the moment. I hate how they homogenized healers at the start of Cata.

    I actually enjoyed Holy more in WotLK. And that was just spamming Flash of Light.
    "We don't care what people say, we know the truth. Enough is enough with this horse s***. I am not a freak, I was born with my free gun. Don't tell me I'm less than my freedom."

  16. #236
    Bloodsail Admiral Rivyr's Avatar
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    I dont feel that any of the paladin specs are in a bad place really I just dont like the dependence ret has on inquisition, I feel it would be better served as a DPS cool down rather than something I have to for go a templars verdict to maintain.

  17. #237
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    From the example given, it seems they're keeping Ret on haste so they can differentiate Holy through crit, otherwise it would be kind of a dumb example. Also comments about Spirit not being as important for healers (of particular interest to Paladins, since there probably aren't going to be plate spirit boots, belt, or bracers ever again). That hints at bringing back the old-school Illumination passive in some form. Dodge and parry are gone too and they said they wanted to keep avoidance somehow, so I suspect crit will become the avoidance stat for tanks, granting increased dodge when critically hitting with certain attacks.
    It was just that--an example. They aren't saying those are the stats each spec will be focused on next expansion.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    It was just that--an example. They aren't saying those are the stats each spec will be focused on next expansion.
    I expect they'll try to do the stats such that one stat won't be king for all the specs of a given class since that would definitely lower a tier's longevity, but I do hope there's at least one stat that is alright for each spec. Maybe it's 3rd or 4th priority, but it'll still work if one knows how to play it.

    If they stick with six secondaries it's going to be interesting to see how they all interact and what inflection points will turn up.
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  19. #239
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Combat stuff
    -Less cooldown dependency. Like remove them all! Not really but you get the point.
    -Balanced talents in PvP. Right now talents are pretty set in pvp. No actual choice.
    -Lessen the effects of fear. I mean cmon we are paladins yet we suffer from fear the most.

    Other stuff
    -Hearth of the Crusader buffed or stacking with guild perk.
    -New cool skills / animations.
    -A FLYING PALADIN MOUNT!!!
    -Polearms transmogable!
    -Paladin quests.
    -More stuff to do in SW Chapel.

  20. #240
    The Patient Extremity's Avatar
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    Inquisition is stupid and was literally added because the class "did not have enough to do" and needs to be removed. When they talk about an ability squish this is probably the BEST example of that in the entire game. Roll the boost into Paladin base damage.

    Seals have done their part and need to go. It's not fun and it's a pain in the ass when you have to swap them back and forth in the middle of a fight. If they want a swappable mechanic it needs to be more like stances, where in stance A we do passive cleave (could just be +x cleave stat with the new secondary stats), stance B is a defense/restorative stance that restores health and slightly reduces damage taken, and stance C is straight up single target nuking stance.

    I really don't care about any of that honestly, but seals need to go. IMO they don't need to be replaced with anything and their utility should be rolled into our moveset. They are a crutch meant to compensate for a lack of abilities; we need better AOE abilities as ret to compensate for righteousness. We need better passive or ability-based self healing, and we need the damage of vengeance rolled into a primary attack, such as TV does X% extra damage over X seconds, stacking up to X times.

    Paladins need a new niche; before (relative to the lifespan of the game) recent changes, we had that from our Blessings. Now we really don't; even keeping up other seal debuffs on bosses in BC was useful on a handful of fights. Having health and mana restoration seals up 100% of the time on Brutallus without the healing Paladins needing to rejudge and waste a GCD was crucial. Paladins have always been about group utility and that needs to be reinforced. The entire point of the class was "Jack of all trades but master of none" where we can do many, many things but are not the best at them (aside from healing, which we've topped certain aspects of at different times). Devotion Aura is a great example of this, but they don't all need to be raid cooldowns. A boss debuff judgement of light should totally be re-added, perhaps on a cooldown. Just like a shadow priest can help out with raid healing when needed, a Paladin should be able to pop an ability where for X seconds attacks on the boss restore 1% health to the attacker or something. Then the fun comes from deciding which to use; the same cooldown is shared for all, and you can choose from restoring mana/other energy for 5 seconds or health for 10 seconds, etc. We really, really, really need to gain back raid utility which was our MAIN benefit. When Ret Paladins had to convince a raid leader to take them in BC even though they wouldn't be topping damage on several fights, they could explain the tremendous utility they offered; Salvation, Freedom, Kings/Might, BoP, Judgement of Light/Wisdom, a permanent aura for interrupt reductions, bonus armor, reflective damage, or 10% more holy damage (great on some fights in Sunwell!), etc. We've lost all of that. What do we have now? Devotion Aura. Buffs that other classes provide (which is fine, I understand not having one class be the only one with a specific buff).

    Similar to how a hunter can provide a MASSIVE variety of buffs or even HEROISM to a raid based on what pet they have, the Paladin should be the ranged version of that, providing a selection of buffs to be that buffer for a raid that's missing a class. The hunter shouldn't be the only one that raids can fall back on to compensate for lack of a class, and Paladin would mean there's a ranged and a melee class that can do this, dramatically helping to balance it out.

    Bubble needs to be reworked. It's boring. It's screams Paladin after all this time and obviously will not be removed, but it's a crutch. The problem is that we're balanced around it, and with Ice Block, Deter, etc, it's not as powerful as it used to be... not to mention being able to be removed by several classes. Why can't Bubble be like the Monk AOE silence/disarm ability? You pop Bubble, it does exactly the same thing, except it's 10 yards wide and also gives a damage reduction to other party members within it. We NEED RAID UTILITY. OUR CLASS WAS BUILT AROUND THAT, and it's just fallen to the wayside year after year.

    We might top DPS at times, but we'll never be the best at DPSing long-term. We might top healing at some times, but we'll never be the top healer for every situation (and most classes also wont to be fair). We might be the best tank for certain situations, but there are mechanics we are not well suited for, such as spells needing to be reflected, reliable spammable slows, tremendous control/CC over single and/or groups of enemies, etc. We're great at these but we'll never be the best for more than segments of time because we are one of the only true "hybrid" classes in the game, one of the oldest, and have always compensated for that with the utility we provide. Except that utility has been removed over and over and over again. It's never been targeted at Paladins specifically, but game-wide changes have chipped away at that toolset and it seems nobody really notices until they accumulate; threat not being an issue, so salvation is removed. Buffs shared amongst classes, so kings/might not as big of a deal. Auras removed. Seal and judgement system changed, and our multiple judgements removed with them (light/wisdom/etc). I don't disagree with the changes, I'm just saying that individually none are a big deal but when you add them all up you can see how much utility we've lost as a whole. Maybe we can't get something specific to the class because it's unfair to require a Paladin in a group for it, but we should certainly be the Hunter #2, the class that can provide a variety of buffs (somehow selecting specific ones though, not providing all at once, similar to a hunter selecting a pet) like a hunter can. You need a ranged DPS and are missing buffs? Hunter! Need a melee, a healer, or a tank and are missing buffs? A Paladin. It would make group structuring much more forgiving, would help Paladins get into a raid even if the Ret isn't capable of topping DPS or the Holy isn't the best for fight X, and would make a lot of Paladins happier. As much as people ask for it, a flat out damage boost or a tank damage reduction buff or holy healing output isn't automatically going to change the consensus of other classes that aren't familiar with Paladins, and it will take a looooong time for them to recognize those changes and start inviting Paladins to groups more often than they have; but knowing that Paladin #2 in the raid can provide two buffs they're missing is going to be something they pick on with very, very quickly.

    Edit: As for just class changes I like...
    Holy Power is trash. It's a glorified combo points system and in the end is just a glorified cooldown system. Aside from WoG it offers very little decision making. As a ret Paladin, I need 3 HP to do a Templar's, no matter what. I can't decide to do one at two holy power, as I previously could, knowing it will do less damage but also knowing I need that hit to kill an opponent in PVP before a heal with .5 seconds left goes off. It's just waiting to three and hitting a button.

    Holy Power was added for the wrong reasons; to give the class "flavor" and "something to look at", not because it was a dramatic playstyle improvement (and I'm not saying it's not an improvement, but that it could be done better). At the least, all HP consuming abilities should work at any level up HP, with 3 being the max consumed. HP should generate more like burning embers, with big core attacks generating a lot and smaller things having a CHANCE to generate a fraction; I shouldn't be able to completely know when and how I will get my holy power, it's not as fun as playing my Destruction Warlock and all of a sudden getting flooded with embers when I get two crits and three immolate tick crits at once. I want to react to something unexpected. I want to have to PAY ATTENTION to my class, and not know my cooldown times by heart and hit my five binds with my eyes closed. I could set up audio queues for "ability X ready" and literally play with my eyes closed on a fight that requires no movement.
    Last edited by Extremity; 2013-11-28 at 02:27 PM.

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