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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Lack of "active mitigation" worked just fine preCata. Many tanks who enjoy current system are simply enjoying rogue-like DPS-mindset.

    Cata made a huge overhaul of healing, to the point of many people hating new system. MoP didn't change much, just made it even more boring and homogenized (Non-scaling mana pools? seriously? Whose "brilliant" idea it was?). There is no need to "overhaul" anything, just to return back to preCata systems, which worked better.
    I hear more tanks that like active mitigation than not. If they have to completely rely on healers for survival they will find it boring and may just stop tanking. They aren't going to take away a mechanic that has been received so positively.

    And you are absolutely clueless if you think that there would not have to be an overhaul to healing. Making paladins a completely single target healer in a game that is all about aoe healing spam would kill the spec. As for going back to pre-cata, no thanks. Holy Light spam was mind numbingly boring.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-10-13 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #42
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Lack of "active mitigation" worked just fine preCata. Many tanks who enjoy current system are simply enjoying rogue-like DPS-mindset.
    Personally I found nothing wrong with the pre-AM style of tanking and would love for Active Mitigation to die in a fire
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Lack of "active mitigation" worked just fine preCata. Many tanks who enjoy current system are simply enjoying rogue-like DPS-mindset.

    Cata made a huge overhaul of healing, to the point of many people hating new system. MoP didn't change much, just made it even more boring and homogenized (Non-scaling mana pools? seriously? Whose "brilliant" idea it was?). There is no need to "overhaul" anything, just to return back to preCata systems, which worked better.
    Worked just fine for whom, and why did it work for them? One of the reasons they changed tanks to all have active mitigation was so their rotations and such actually meant something for their own survivability. Note that of course there was "some" active mitigation before such as with the paladin 969 rotation and Holy Shield, but keeping that sort of buff up wasn't exactly called out as being "compelling gameplay" now was it? If someone thought tanking worked just fine before active mitigation, they might have liked it because they could play worse/be lazier and still perform well enough to get through the raid. Was that design good for the game? Blizzard doesn't seem to think so, and I somewhat agree since, as a tank, I'd like to be able to feel that my rotational abilities matter.

    Healing is another matter. As mentioned, giving tanks more control over their own survival means some of that is now out of the hands of the healers if they actually want tanks to notice their good play make a difference. Since they don't want healers to feel useless and also don't want too much damage to happen to tanks since that would make them feel like their active mitigation doesn't make enough of a difference to be meaningful, they have to settle on more AoE stuff because the game intentionally designs DPS to not have rotational abilities that improve their survival, thus they're dependent on others to keep them alive.

    I'm not sure I like that so much. I'd like it if there were a sweet spot of sorts where active tanking felt like it mattered and made for compelling play, but healing a tank also made for compelling play too. We'll see if Blizz can deliver on that possibility because I would hope they've looked at the play dynamics and realized AoE healing is sucky right now especially with the input lag crap.
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  4. #44
    Questline for blue/white coloured spells, gold is so 7 years ago.


    EDIT: OH this is a mechanics thread.

    My 2 cents:

    Holy: Return focus to being more competent at single target healing, remove EF we're not resto druids, (something I find ironic because all through TBC and Wrath I was SO JELLY of HoTs). I no longer MS as Holy though, so I won't really judge.

    Prot: Everything that has happened to protection has been good in my humble opinion. Now its so much more engaging. My prot paladin is an alt though so much less play time on him so again, won't judge.

    Ret: Wouldn't mind a finisher to spread censure to all targets, instead of dealing direct damage. Give me back consecration. Tone down wings, lower duration and cooldown by 50% at least. That or make it a proc, something like 20% proc on finisher, lasts 6 seconds. (I'm sure it won't be popular with a lot of rets, but I like my wings and think its a shame they aren't visible more often :P). Let Guardian of Ancient Kings be what Wings was, our 2-3 min CD. Return the healing portion of Divine Storm to a percentage of damage done, not this 5% nonsense and make it heal your raid too. Otherwise mostly happy with the spec since Wrath. Would really love cleanse to dispell magic again, guess that being baked into HoS will have to do. Can HoPu get it as well?

    All specs: GIVE US BACK DIVINE INTERVENTION. Jesus christ this.
    Last edited by AeneasBK; 2013-10-13 at 06:20 PM.
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  5. #45
    A single-target spammable heal which generates HoPo for Holy.
    Some active mitigation abilities for Prot.

    Don't really play retri, so can't comment on that.

  6. #46
    Bloodsail Admiral Nivena's Avatar
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    Retribution AOE:

    -Give back Consecration, it's such an iconic ability that all paladins should have a use for. If you stand in it it does damage & heals friendly players (like Light's Hammer which needs to be reworked)

    -Remove HotR, rework Divine Storm (we should be able to use it without spending HP...helped a lot in Cataclysm against stealthies)

    -Old Sacred Shield which was a passive.

  7. #47
    Would love to see a return to Wrath healing mechanics, loved my Holy Paladin in Wrath, not so much now.

  8. #48
    I feel like the Paladin rotation is becoming too spammy with full haste build. Theres just too many abilities off the GCD right now.

    A full haste build, with 4 piece T16 and Divine Purpose means you're hitting a very high number of abilities per minute. A 1.0 second GCD means you're looking at somewhere between 50-60 GCDs used per minute. In addition a good 15+ SoTR/EF that are also off the GCD.

    I feel like I'm hitting double the number of abilities to effectively do the same things the other tanking classes are doing.

  9. #49
    Pit Lord Sett's Avatar
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    Divine storm worked back into our rotation without having a set bonus cheese. I realize they wanted us to be using it more but it's kinda on their fault they put DS into such an awkward spot in the first place. Or make it spread Censure.

    I'd be for making Guardian of Ancient Kings run a bit faster for Ret. Have GotAK reflect what your first tier talent choice is or something for speed.


    I don't feel very iconic anymore while playing a paladin. Our auras have been butchered down, our seals aren't the most interesting of choices, and as ret I feel lacking in a bit of 'oompf' for flashy attacks. The TV animation change was amazing, I support more and creative choices like that. Would love to see more flashy stuff added to our attacks.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Lack of "active mitigation" worked just fine preCata. Many tanks who enjoy current system are simply enjoying rogue-like DPS-mindset.
    You mean I'm not suppose to enjoy the fact that i can't just watch tv anymore popping cd's every 1-3 min while timed macro does my exact rotation perfectly ?

  11. #51
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    You mean I'm not suppose to enjoy the fact that i can't just watch tv anymore popping cd's every 1-3 min while timed macro does my exact rotation perfectly ?
    I loved being able to do that D:
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  12. #52
    Field Marshal Otul's Avatar
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    First of all, allow to have three specs in the same toon, so we can enjoy all of our roles without losing one.

    Retribution:
    - Give Seal of Insight some passive damage mitigation (at least for ret and prot), like 10%.
    - Consecration back to DPS spec. We will feel nude in AoE after t16 4pt.
    - Passive 5-10% proc to deal holy damage with TV after we use CS. We are absolutely poor in unitarget this tier compared to other classes since we drop t15 4pt.
    - Less tier dependance. If you see the two above points, you will suppose what we're currently experiencing, a sick difference between players with 4pc and players without it (more than it should). This also makes non-viable switching old tier 4pc to old and new tier 2pc, which is ridiculous.
    - Some walk speed boost. In arena or RBG we feel stupid when we need to reach someone kiting us, this is a problem that Warriors, DKs and Monks don't have.

    Protection:
    - See retribution first point.
    - Don't change anything more. It's very funny at the moment.

    All:
    - Devo aura also reducing physic damage OR 6 more seconds of duration OR less cooldown (like 2min). Now it's a VERY situational raid cooldown. Warrior and rogues raid cooldowns are more useful and they're viable in every single fight.

    That's all folks. Hope it doesn't sound a lot like a letter to Santa Claus.

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    I mean, the walk speed and gap closer is part of our first tier talents, but I agree they could use some reworking. Also when it comes to mobility assuming that we bring back "RBG tanking" (right now I get the idea Blizzard wants to kill tanks as flag carriers) mobility would also be useful to put Prot on the level of the other Prot (and not just for Ret PvP).

    - Would also go for Ret though assuming we've abandoned tank FC's and then we could use Ret instead.

  14. #54
    adding actual offensive side to Retribution would do good.

    Im not talking about damage dealing moves obviously, I mean something along the lines of an actual way to put pressure on target without resorting to mass burst cd stacking.

    Warriors have MS for said purposes, DKs have Necrotic pat, etc.

    I want E4E to return.
    I want auras ( Retribution one especially so) to return.
    I want Retribution to finally stray away from that stupid gameplay of "heal through all that they toss at you while gutting your offensive to nothing while not actually helping with survivng for any prolongated period of time" thing.

    I want more seals, different seals, which matter and are not bland gimmicks "this one for aoe, this one guts damage but heals for shit, this one stacks measly dot, this one is kind of a pvp choice" buffonade we have now.

    I want each spec to feel whole and unique.
    I want to see the day when no paladin spec is punished or gutted/nerfed due to other spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I mean, the walk speed and gap closer is part of our first tier talents, but I agree they could use some reworking. Also when it comes to mobility assuming that we bring back "RBG tanking" (right now I get the idea Blizzard wants to kill tanks as flag carriers) mobility would also be useful to put Prot on the level of the other Prot (and not just for Ret PvP).

    - Would also go for Ret though assuming we've abandoned tank FC's and then we could use Ret instead.
    Ret does not have a gap closer, you silly.
    Sure as sure

  15. #55
    I want them to scrap Hammer of the Righteous and do something else with our AoE rotation. Make Divine Storm a blatant clone of Spinning Crane Kick for all I care.
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  16. #56
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    give prot an aoe taunt back

  17. #57
    A priority-queue of spells, instead of a set rotation with a few keys you prio in between. It's somewhat dull.
    I love the many things you can do to help the raid in between, while tanking, though.
    Overall i'm okay with how the class is as a tank.
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  18. #58
    get rid of Inquisition, and the icing on the cake would be no more holy combo points either.

    Make ret use spell power plate so its not just a one spec loot; do something like a passive spell power to physical dmg conversion.

    swap hammer of the righteousness and concentration out between prot and ret.

    Make dodge/parry actually the main states for prot, and no more "active" mitigation.

  19. #59
    Paladins, and especially Ret, need something that is neither damage, healing or mitigation, in particular some sort of displacement ability for allies or enemies. A teleport, a knock-back, anything interesting like that, which makes Ret a bit less tactically limited and utterly unable to abuse terrain like most other specs can. Maybe give us a void shift that switches character places instead of health bars, or a friendly knockback that lets us push friendlies out of harm's way.

    Divine Intervention - save an ally by trading places (or abuse for mobility :P)
    Altar of Judgement - summon an altar that can summon a targeted enemy to it for punishment.
    Light Speed Rescue - hurl a friend out of harm's way at the speed of light.
    Shun - whack an enemy target sending it several yards away in front of you (yes silly for a melee, but nice for knocking casters away from a pillar they are humping)
    Pillar of Light - summon a pillar of light at a targeted location; the pillar's light and energy are so intense that no one can see or walk through.

    Anyway, Paladins are long overdue for something technical, not just more damage, more healing, or less damage taken as per usual.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-10-14 at 02:21 AM.

  20. #60
    One of the things I miss about prot in Cata was the talent that allowed Divine Plea to generate 3 HoPo for clutch situations. Even only having that every 2 minutes would be quite nice so we can mitigate a screwup or apply some more pressure in PVP or something.

    How screwed is druid damage and utility in PVP because of the potential to heal? From what I've read the general sentiment it's not or even if it is a bit it's definitely not compared to Ret. If seals are going to be treated as stances, make them act like stances dammit!

    Likewise, if we're going to have a redone version of Combo Points, give us more than damage and crap to use with it.
    Last edited by Jackielope; 2013-10-14 at 02:47 AM.
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