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  1. #621
    I would like to see retri good enough to be a part of world first kills.

    If you take a look of the first end boss kills this expansion (tier 15 and tier 16, I don't have any information for tier 14 since it's not available at wowprogress) it looks like this (looking at the first and second guild on both 10 man and 25 man):

    Lei Shen
    Method - 0 retris
    Blood Legion - 0 retris
    Paragon - 0 retris
    Sanitas - 0 retris

    Ra-den
    Method - 0 retris
    Blood legion - 0 retris
    Paragon - 0 retris
    Sanitas - 0 retris

    Garrosh
    Method - 0 retris
    Blood legion - 0 retris
    Paragon - 0 retris
    Depraved - 0 retris
    What to do if you find out that your GM is playing his ally alt? GANK HIM!

  2. #622
    - A beautiful, big, straight, two-edged, white and golden holy two-hand sword. How come that EVERY two-hand sword is just a demon black magic bone blade?
    +1 !

    Perhaps a minor glyph for Holy only : "Transmog your shield and weapon like a random two-hand sword/mace in your inventory".

  3. #623
    Somehow make them fun again - they are very dull to play currently.

  4. #624
    I'd like to have the Devotion Aura CD changed to have some spec flavor. Keep the magic reduction across specs but make the secondary effect change depending of spec. For example
    Holy: Interrupt/knockback resistance
    Protection: 20% physical damage reduction
    Retribution: 20% of damage taken reflected back to caster.

    That way there'd be a reason to have a certain type of a Pally in your raid, and it would sit inline with our old auras.

  5. #625
    A bigger output of sustained dps for ret! The burst is great, and handy for pvp, but I just want to be able to hold on to some higher dps and feel like I provide more than just a few buffs!

  6. #626
    Elemental Lord MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avendesera View Post
    A bigger output of sustained dps for ret! The burst is great, and handy for pvp, but I just want to be able to hold on to some higher dps and feel like I provide more than just a few buffs!
    I believe they've hinted at that being the case. They mentioned they didn't like GoaK and may remove it on twitter I think. If that's removed we either need another CD or some alteration to the rest of our damage. I don't see them replacing it with another CD.

  7. #627
    Epic! Swampmoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ater View Post
    I would like to see retri good enough to be a part of world first kills.

    If you take a look of the first end boss kills this expansion (tier 15 and tier 16, I don't have any information for tier 14 since it's not available at wowprogress) it looks like this (looking at the first and second guild on both 10 man and 25 man):

    Lei Shen
    Method - 0 retris
    Blood Legion - 0 retris
    Paragon - 0 retris
    Sanitas - 0 retris

    Ra-den
    Method - 0 retris
    Blood legion - 0 retris
    Paragon - 0 retris
    Sanitas - 0 retris

    Garrosh
    Method - 0 retris
    Blood legion - 0 retris
    Paragon - 0 retris
    Depraved - 0 retris
    It's pretty sad that class stacking is STILL essentially going on even when they recognized it as a problem back when I played regularly (WotLK). "Bring the player, not the class" was their goal. Seems to have failed years later. I noticed Exorsus (3rd) had a ret paladin in their kill but you couldn't even see him on damage meters in their video. Side note, I noticed Vigil also had one and surprisingly they were 5th or 6th on damage. Wonder if they just outgeared the rest of the raid.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...t&n=Swampmoose

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  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    This thread should be titled: "So you can't play a paladin. How should we nerf its playstyle to accommodate your handicap?"
    No, I can play paladin perfectly fine. I just don't like Holy Power. I thought it was stupid when they announced it and my opinion hasn't changed.

    Also, playing Ret is boring as all hell. Because of Holy Power. Standing there while you white hit while waiting for your CD to finish so you can use TV. Oh boy. Fun.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    No, I can play paladin perfectly fine. I just don't like Holy Power. I thought it was stupid when they announced it and my opinion hasn't changed.

    Also, playing Ret is boring as all hell. Because of Holy Power. Standing there while you white hit while waiting for your CD to finish so you can use TV. Oh boy. Fun.

    Oh and dont forget Inquisition!

  10. #630
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Also, playing Ret is boring as all hell. Because of Holy Power. Standing there while you white hit while waiting for your CD to finish so you can use TV. Oh boy. Fun.
    HP is good. It's an effective CD on TV, but the CD depends on how well you react to procs and perform your rotation. Excellent deal.

  11. #631
    All i want for pallies (well Ret, since that what i play) is the ability to spread censure, more defensives for PvP (something that tells enemy players that it would be a waste of time to attack the Ret pally now) and a CC break/immunity similar to most other melee classes i.e. War berserker rage, DK icebound fort/pillar of frost...or just make us more "RETRIBUTIVE" seems like WW monks are more retribution than we are with karma damage reflect.
    Last edited by Ellmist; 2014-01-23 at 01:43 AM.

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    HP is good. It's an effective CD on TV, but the CD depends on how well you react to procs and perform your rotation. Excellent deal.
    It doesn't just depend on that. It also depends on white hitting until CS, Exo, or Judgement come off of CD. And that's if your Inquisition doesn't need to be refreshed. RNG based toons are boring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    All i want for pallies (well Ret, since that what i play) is the ability to spread censure, more defensives for PvP (something that tells enemy players that it would be a waste of time to attack the Ret pally now) and a CC break/immunity similar to most other melee classes i.e. War berserker rage, DK icebound fort/pillar of frost...or just make us more "RETRIBUTIVE" seems like WW monks are more retribution than we are with karma damage reflect.
    They used to have that with Eye for an Eye. Those days are gone now.

  13. #633
    I would like to see a down play in Holy. Man, the spec is such a fixture it's become tiresome to see.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  14. #634
    Mechagnome Steampunk's Avatar
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    I'd like to see less "button grinding" for Ret on Inquisition and Prot on Sacred Shield (I know it's not popular anymore over selfless healer).

    I have a strange feeling I'm alone on this.

    Also, I'm so over Holy Paladins.
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  15. #635
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    I also wouldn't mind if they gave the old Holy Shield spell back; partially due to the nice animation, and partially due to the fact that Prot Paladins just feel so damn...passive these days, with a damage reduction built into SoTR and so on.
    "Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you." - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  16. #636
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    It doesn't just depend on that. It also depends on white hitting until CS, Exo, or Judgement come off of CD.
    Right, all melee classes have dependence on white hitting. If you're a warrior not white hitting, you don't get rage. If you're enhance not white hitting, you don't get MW procs. How on earth is this "shocking" to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    And that's if your Inquisition doesn't need to be refreshed. RNG based toons are boring.
    1) How is Inquisition RNG? It's very determined.
    2) Almost all classes have RNG in their rotation. Not having RNG means you have zero need to be reactive and you could just fucking Auto-It your entire rotation; *that* is what is boring.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastyfish View Post
    I would like to see a down play in Holy. Man, the spec is such a fixture it's become tiresome to see.
    Welcome to 2004, how would you like your Holy Paladin? Would you like your Ret Paladin Holy? Ret LoL LolRet? Holy Paladin Holy Holy crap!

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    No, I can play paladin perfectly fine. I just don't like Holy Power. I thought it was stupid when they announced it and my opinion hasn't changed.

    Also, playing Ret is boring as all hell. Because of Holy Power. Standing there while you white hit while waiting for your CD to finish so you can use TV. Oh boy. Fun.
    Because playing ret in ICC when you bind all of your abilities to mousewheel and spam away was much more fun ?

  19. #639
    It's pretty sad that class stacking is STILL essentially going on even when they recognized it as a problem back when I played regularly (WotLK). "Bring the player, not the class" was their goal.
    It can't be a goal until some classes are obviously op in dps / healing / tanking.

  20. #640
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ater View Post
    I would like to see retri good enough to be a part of world first kills.
    *SNIP*
    To be fair you don't play ret and expect to top meters, you play ret to be an asset to your raid with your strong utility abilities and knowing how / when to use them correctly is more important than your dps (imo). Any top 3 world guild would only use rets if dps wasn't an issue for a fight or if they needed more devo auras than their tankadin/holydins provides, if rets did as much dps as rogues or warriors we'd be grossly overpowered with our current utility and our survival is one of the best, if not THE best, of all melee dps specs.

    Take this advice if you want to top meters, go play warrior or rogues (feral druids as well atm) because ret is not a spec that's ever going to be "top".

    Now the discussion, would/should we lose some of our utility and get a bigger dps in raids? are we a dps spec or a utility spec? Personally I like having tools to save people in raids, selfless healer, bops, LoH, sacrifices, salvation to moron warlocks and warriors that pull aggro on adds? I find it more enjoyable the way it is now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampmoose View Post
    It's pretty sad that class stacking is STILL essentially going on even when they recognized it as a problem back when I played regularly (WotLK). "Bring the player, not the class" was their goal. Seems to have failed years later. I noticed Exorsus (3rd) had a ret paladin in their kill but you couldn't even see him on damage meters in their video. Side note, I noticed Vigil also had one and surprisingly they were 5th or 6th on damage. Wonder if they just outgeared the rest of the raid.
    "Bring the player, not the class" is still somewhat true though. In sub world 50 it really (honestly) doesn't matter if you have 2 rets on roster or a frostmage (he'd be bad) because you're not in the extreme progression race. For the top 10 guilds you'd have maybe 30-40 raiders on roster, each of those raiders aren't bound to ONE class/spec. They can play a lot of class/spec combinations and they do so whenever it's needed for a fight. On that level being a good raider with high attendance and understanding of the fight is the important factor and then they just jump to whatever class/spec is best suited for the role that needs to be done. Now (sadly) because the top 10+ guilds progress insanely fast it means DPS is going to be an issue which means they'll most likely only take the best suited specs for each encounter. And because rets are relatively weak on throughput dps it means we don't see many of them at that level. The second you start looking outside the insane competitive scene you'll see a lot of rets popping up...

    But seriously, stop thinking that your effective DPS is the only thing that matters, esp if you're a ret.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    No, I can play paladin perfectly fine. I just don't like Holy Power. I thought it was stupid when they announced it and my opinion hasn't changed.

    Also, playing Ret is boring as all hell. Because of Holy Power. Standing there while you white hit while waiting for your CD to finish so you can use TV. Oh boy. Fun.
    If you feel it's that bad then your haste rating must be really low, 17k haste and I have maybe 1-2 gaps in my rotation per minute and they're usually regained due to movement or having to deal with actual mechanics. If I got nothing else to do I just refresh my Sacred Shield (if I have it specced) and take less damage.
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