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  1. #201
    Field Marshal Portdealer's Avatar
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    Make a 4th shockadin ranged dps spec, I'd start playing my paladins again.

  2. #202
    The Patient Ichorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    yeah, but you know, hope is the vilest poison, and I think I've had enough after 6+ years.
    Yeah, I understand that, I've spent too much time on mine to not play it, even if it's the worst class/spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narrative View Post
    Make a 4th shockadin ranged dps spec, I'd start playing my paladins again.
    This is another interesting idea.
    I never got to experience Shockadin, I would like that ranged, divine artillery kind of spec to come back though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can someone jog my memory?

    When you crit on Seal/Judgement of Blood/the Martyr, did the backlash damage also double?


  3. #203
    They should revamp the whole holy power system, either add more abilities that adds holy power / generates or just remove it all.
    Both prot and ret has so much potential if done right.
    You'll never see me coming...

  4. #204
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    melee is not meant to have 30% uptime on ranged aswise.
    but hey, everyone says Rets are not pure melee so it's kind of ok, hurr hurr.
    I don't have the 30% uptime issue you have unless my teammates are clueless. But my whole point was asking to be like warriors who are OP and have 100% uptime is stupid, which still stands.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I don't have the 30% uptime issue you have unless my teammates are clueless. But my whole point was asking to be like warriors who are OP and have 100% uptime is stupid, which still stands.
    I was exaggerating obviously, but you can't deny the fact that Ret struggles with uptime on ranged the most of all melees.

    But OUR whole point is to have solid, realiable personal tools to play as a whole, complete melee spec.
    Ret doesnt even have an actual gap closer to begin with.
    we have a fething complex of retarded mechanics which, while being chained, provide us with mobility.
    and mobility does not transalte into reliable gap closers.

    You don't even have a choice in T15, you are pretty much forced into LOATL, not because its cookie cutter talent, but because its the least rotten apple out of 3 on said tier.

    I dont want to have 4 types of charge along with jumping and all that .
    I want something realiable, not this Benny Hill fethwipe we have .

    I want less active mitigation, because ret active mitigation sucks.
    I want actual, working defensive cooldowns with no glaring and obvious drawbacks like now.
    I want ret to have unique utilities which would separate it from holy and make ret desirable for teams and comps.
    I want to have actual sustainded damage as ret. I want ret to be engaging, not this onetrick pony of "drop CD's - turtle up - wait 2 mins- drop CD's-turtle up" ad infinitum.

    I want ret to be desirable.
    Last edited by Storm the Sorrow; 2013-11-07 at 10:21 PM. Reason: mui engrish iz gud

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichorum View Post
    I never got to experience Shockadin, I would like that ranged, divine artillery kind of spec to come back though.
    Back in Vanilla, Holy Shock was the only on-demand ability Paladins had that did damage. Otherwise you ran around with Seal of Command and hope for stuff to happen. In TBC, Retribution was so bad that Shockadin was extremely viable. When WOTLK was released, Shockadins faded away when Retribution finally got much needed buffs.

    I'd probably like to see a 4th spec for each class in the game, and if there was a 4th spec for Paladins then it would certainly be Shockadin. As it is right now it makes a lot of sense for Paladins to be Ret/Prot, cause the gear is interchangeable. Much like Resto and Boomkins can share gear. Holy Paladins don't have such benefits, unless there was a Shockadin spec.

    The question is, would Blizzard go through the trouble to balance a 4th spec for each class? As it is they can't balance all the classes they have now in the game. Though I'd imagine some of the 4th specs would be tank and healer, so it shouldn't be too bad to balance.

    4th spec ideas

    Warlock - Tank with pet
    Hunter - Tank with pet
    Mage - White Mage healer
    Rogue - Ranged dps spec
    Warrior - new melee spec
    DK - new melee spec
    Monk - Ranged dps spec
    Shaman - Tank spec
    Paladin- new ranged dps spec
    Priest - Holy dps spec

  7. #207
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    4th specs are sort of a "if Blizzard does it, they'll do it" thing which we'll find out tomorrow and Saturday. I feel that enough has been done to death on this topic and the arguments have been given, now they are just merely repeated ad nauseum.

    That said I sort of feel this thread has strayed into irrelevance, with too many people who plainly don't play the existing class at a high level "giving opinions" as well as other pointless echos (such as changing the class color) that just aren't going to happen.

    I'd love to see more serious ideas for what can be done to the class. Examples being reworking the healing/absorbs model, changing Ret's AoE model, and perhaps taking another look at Seals for all specs. The 15 talent tree could also use changes (the sprint/"gap closer" for melee tree).

  8. #208
    The Patient Ichorum's Avatar
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    Huh, I thought up until TBC, Ret was crap, then we got Seal of Blood and did damage killing ourselves.
    So was Ret really just terrible up until Wrath?

    Cause here's my knowledge:

    Vanilla Pre-Naxx: Holy is the only True Spec, you enjoy such fine pastimes as removing diseases, poisons, and (maybe?) magic effects. Blessing your allies, and hitting things with Judgement of Light for turbo heals.
    Protection Paladins: Lol
    Ret Paladins: Lel
    Vanilla Naxx Era: Holy is still neat, Prot is now viable, and you now have a use for Exorcism, grats. Ret has been buffed up to 'Lol' and congratu-frickin-lations if you not only find, but receive a Corrupted Ashbringer.
    BC: Paladins reach rightful place as at least decent at everything.
    Wrath: Holy begins its ascent to being in the top 2 healing specs permanently
    Protection: 9696 True Skill Mode
    Retribution: Exorcism, Divine Storm, and Set bonuses, you're the walking, breathing embodiment of the Light and the face of the expansion.
    Cata: Holy still good.
    Protection: What a shame. Until Dragon Soul.
    Retribution: Overhauled, could have been worse, but could have been better. Got better at the end.
    Mists: HOLY THO
    Protection: 2 Out of 3 Specs are now Great
    Ret: What a shame. Then they got better at the end.

    Where have I strayed?


  9. #209
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichorum View Post
    Cause here's my knowledge:
    Perhaps if people want to see a better class they should look to the future, not to the past...

  10. #210
    The Patient Ichorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Perhaps if people want to see a better class they should look to the future, not to the past...
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I trust the developers and hope we all come out of this smiling, but I'm just curious as to how Ret fared up until its current iteration.


  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Perhaps if people want to see a better class they should look to the future, not to the past...
    perhaps if people will learn from their past mistakes, they'll be able to actually achieve something of value.

  12. #212
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    perhaps if people will learn from their past mistakes, they'll be able to actually achieve something of value.
    To a point I agree, but I think most "Vanilla"-era posts about the state of a class are more nostalgia-based and not fueled in reality whatsoever. Learning from mistakes can be done through just looking at Cataclysm and especially MOP itself. That's also because the state of the game in Cata and especially MOP has changed to a point you can't really compare abilities we had even in Cata for the most part to now.

  13. #213
    I want blizzard to add relevance to the iconic ability of the paladin for holy paladin, seal and judgments, as a holy the seal is just a passive buff and the judgement you only use it if you are using one talent.

    Lets keep the three seal for now.

    Seal of Truth: Attacks, holy shock and judgments have a % to add a stack of seal of truth, at 5 stack the seal will be fully charged for 30sec, the seal will heal the most injuried targets that attack the target, Judgments on the target will spread some aoe healing around the target.

    Seal of Righteousness: While this seal is active, judgments can be used on your allies, healing them and improving your healing on that target for 5 seconds.

    Seal of Insight: while this is active, the CD of your judgments is reduced by X%, successful judgments generate a charge of holy power and increase your spell haste X% for 5 seconds.

    Numbers need some balance, the cd of the judgments need to be raised ofc, and the seals need to have some kind of CD.

  14. #214
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    While I don't like the idea of "stance swapping" for Holy or Prot with Seals, I do think something was lost when Judgment's effect was "de-coupled" from the Seal.

    I wouldn't mind Judgment having a different effect per Seal at all back.

  15. #215
    Since judgements appear to be one of the most representative skill of paladins (for me), I really would like, as a Holy, to see them back on our playstyle separate of SH (which I really don't like). No matter what it does, I really liked judging everything on my way, as we did in WotLK.

    Seal of Righteousness: While this seal is active, judgments can be used on your allies, healing them and improving your healing on that target for 5 seconds.
    I like this idea, it could really bring something new.

  16. #216
    Seal of protection to be similar like deff stance and blood presence. From what i`ve seen wars and DK`s are doing more dmg siting in their god mode stance/presence.
    Right now if u want plate melee it`s War>DK and if u are desperate u can take Ret

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    While I don't like the idea of "stance swapping" for Holy or Prot with Seals, I do think something was lost when Judgment's effect was "de-coupled" from the Seal.

    I wouldn't mind Judgment having a different effect per Seal at all back.
    Your wish is their command with "The Light Within" talent? http://www.wowhead.com/talent-wod#l0
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  18. #218
    Seems lackluster compared to FINAL VERDICT YEEEEEAH! Although, that has unsurprisingly already been nerfed from the weapon scaling of TV, and has no base damage. Seal talent might be worthwhile if the ilvl crunch makes Strength king stat again. Now if we can just get rid of Hammer of the Righteous...
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  19. #219
    Non-target Hammer of the Righteous, that is all

  20. #220
    Given the recent gear discussions about new secondary stats, I'd like to see us (and other classes) have the potential for different but roughly equally effective builds and playstyles based around secondary stats just like some tanks enjoy right now. For example, a crit-heavy BrM plays fairly differently than a mastery-heavy setup, but each one can shine in its own way. It's a similar case for prot warriors with avoidance vs mastery.

    And of course I'd like to see some better hybridization options if that suits one's fancy or raid (such as when some fights feel like they need an extra half healer). Thankfully them getting rid of spirit on armor means that holy can work on actual throughput stats and get decent numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

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