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  1. #261
    AOE finisher for prot, we have one finisher (i dont count WoG/EF as finishers) and it is single target, more variation is needed.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Really? That's unfortunate - Why is it that people enjoy it? Do they think it's an additional skill requirement that helps improve the class?
    I'd probably be in the minority too then. As far as healing goes, I'd rather be able to use the heal I need to at the time and not have to build up to it with a secondary resource that's gained by casting other spells that might not even be what the raid needs for healing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    The thing with Holy is that in order to be able to dps, they need to lose something. I don't want to see Holy Paladins running around using Holy Shock and killing players, while healing teammates to full with no problem. Seal of Faith is a good example of how not to do it. It's a win win for Holy to choose this talent, while Ret and Prot will probably never pick this up cause it nerfs damage. Seal of Faith should have some negative component to it for Holy, like increase the mana cost of damage spells.

    If Holy is going to go around healing and dealing damage, they better run dry of mana fairly quickly.
    I'm talking about DPS and healing on the level of fistweaver monk or nerfed disc priest (I think we all agree disc could use a nerf), and both of those can sustain themselves through their hybrid rotations. The tradeoff is always going to be between more healing or by doing lower healing but some DPS on the side. We need to be brought up to par with the damage other healers can do, and we need that ability without having to jump through glyph or talent hoops like right now. Or maybe just have it as one or two talents and one glyph slot, but definitely not all three glyphs.
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  3. #263
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Thinking something like GoAK for Prot, wings for Ret, Divine Favor with a better visual for Holy.
    GC tweet.
    Sad to see one of our cool skills removed from ret but i agree with this change.

  4. #264
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    The thing with Holy is that in order to be able to dps, they need to lose something. I don't want to see Holy Paladins running around using Holy Shock and killing players, while healing teammates to full with no problem. Seal of Faith is a good example of how not to do it. It's a win win for Holy to choose this talent, while Ret and Prot will probably never pick this up cause it nerfs damage. Seal of Faith should have some negative component to it for Holy, like increase the mana cost of damage spells.

    If Holy is going to go around healing and dealing damage, they better run dry of mana fairly quickly.
    The talent is garbage for all specs, including holy.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    All I ask is that Ret pallies are able to spread censure to multiple targets and more finishers for our holy power
    why do we need MORE finishers, we have 1 damage, 1 buff, 1 aoe, thats plenty, any more would be stupid, because one will always out perform and we just would use that, not any of the others. Honestly, i think the ret pally is perfect right now, we have enough buttons to push, its fun, we do decent dps, we have utility, etc. I dont think id change a single thing, except to give us consecrate back, i think all specs should have consec, its iconic paladin

  6. #266
    I would like to see the cool down on all of our holy power generators lowered since we will be losing so many gem slots in WoD thus losing out on tons of haste. Since I don't see inquisition being removed any time soon it would be nice if they gave it a 3 or even a 5 minute timer since we have to use 3 damn holy power to get the most out of it as it is now. If they gave rets the T16 4 piece bonus as a baked in ability that would really help out our AoE too.

  7. #267
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skilrathos View Post
    I would like to see the cool down on all of our holy power generators lowered since we will be losing so many gem slots in WoD thus losing out on tons of haste.
    That means nothing considering "obviously" gear and item budgets will be adjusted accordingly. Also we don't know how stat priorities will be adjusted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skilrathos View Post
    Since I don't see inquisition being removed any time soon it would be nice if they gave it a 3 or even a 5 minute timer since we have to use 3 damn holy power to get the most out of it as it is now. If they gave rets the T16 4 piece bonus as a baked in ability that would really help out our AoE too.
    I don't like the idea of T16 4 piece baked in, I actually believe the T15 4 piece baked in (and not the talent version, I mean baseline and say if the talent were removed) is actually a better tier bonus to truly make baseline.

    Inquisition's timer is actually... fine... in my books, especially with the glyph. The only thing I would think about is starting burst and whether it could be possible to start with 5HP and 1 min Inq (or whether nobody gets to start with resources up).

    ---

    One thing I do think from a DPS perspective (I play a healer, but I used to DPS, so my opinion counts here!) is that pre-potting should definitely stay and while it can be less "out of control" than now... Opening Burst is a Good Thing!!! Seriously, it's fun, and removing it would be a HUGE hit for me!

    Analogy: Imagine a boss fight feeling like a race. What do sprints, marathons, and steeplechases have in common? Everyone powers out the start with that adrenaline rush, and I love that feeling (again no matter what type of boss fight, there's something to love about that opener).

  8. #268
    Keyboard Turner
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    I really hope Blizzard make Retribution paladins able to compete against top DPS in PvE, bcz right now we can't, not even with melee DPS and that sucks and also give us back our auras and consecration. for Lore terms I wan't to know what heck happen' to Turalyon and Alleria, are you serius? you introduce a new paladin character instead of using Turalyon?? damm you blizzard stop playing already!.

    Sorry for bad english

  9. #269
    Stood in the Fire NickCageFanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    More fun gameplay, Ret and Prot is quite boring and dull when it comes to gameplay
    Your subjective input with no description to back your claim doesn't give the folks much to work with.

    I will say that Ret is one of the more fun class specs to play, it has just the right amount of buttons for its dps rotation without any sort of buffs to keep up aside from Inquisition.

  10. #270
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    One thing I'd definitely like for Ret is for Inq to be baked in with our finishers instead of a separate button. Overall though I think Ret has probably the perfect combination of abilities; there is perhaps some overlap between AW and GOAK that could result in one being much shorter or being removed entirely, but overall the feel is perfect; there's a bit of overlap between CS/Judge/Exo but they fill the same niche with differing cooldowns so I don't mind that (although in a perfect world I'd rather have Judgment be a self-buff of some kind, CS be spammable melee and Exo be a spammable ranged attack that would only be used at range), and it gives us the perfect combination of single target builder (CS/Judge/Exo), single target finisher (Templar), AOE builder (Hammer) and AOE finisher (Storm).
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  11. #271
    I'm honestly not happy with HoPo (and never have been, really), but I suppose it's here to stay. Aside from numbers/tuning, I'd like:

    A) HoPo to start at 3, or let us generate them out of combat in PvE. It feels kind of lame to me to have to spend GCDs to build up to a buff before getting to do any direct damage (compared to DKs who can start the pull with both diseases up using Outbreak).

    B) CD pruning. I like GC's idea to have a big cd for each spec instead of multiple smaller ones. If there were conditionals and a way to avoid macro'ing them, I could see something like "When you crit, push this to do 20% more damage!" to reward situational awareness.

    C) Give PLDs incentives for hybrid-ing. "When you sucessfully remove a debuff with Cleanse, you gain 1 HoPo" for Ret/Prot, "When you hit with Crusader Strike, gain 2 HoPo (5s cd)" for Holy, and other such things. That way you aren't "wasting" a global to be helpful, and you can either salvage a HoPo from a GCD or even get one from an otherwise empty GCD.

  12. #272
    Beaten with a crowbar is what I'd like seen done to paladins. Vanilla Horde H8R 4 LIFE!



    Lets try and keep our posting on topic-useful and helpful. Thanks.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2013-12-02 at 10:09 PM.
    Is this where the header goes?

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyese View Post
    I'm honestly not happy with HoPo (and never have been, really), but I suppose it's here to stay. Aside from numbers/tuning, I'd like:

    A) HoPo to start at 3, or let us generate them out of combat in PvE. It feels kind of lame to me to have to spend GCDs to build up to a buff before getting to do any direct damage (compared to DKs who can start the pull with both diseases up using Outbreak).

    B) CD pruning. I like GC's idea to have a big cd for each spec instead of multiple smaller ones. If there were conditionals and a way to avoid macro'ing them, I could see something like "When you crit, push this to do 20% more damage!" to reward situational awareness.

    C) Give PLDs incentives for hybrid-ing. "When you sucessfully remove a debuff with Cleanse, you gain 1 HoPo" for Ret/Prot, "When you hit with Crusader Strike, gain 2 HoPo (5s cd)" for Holy, and other such things. That way you aren't "wasting" a global to be helpful, and you can either salvage a HoPo from a GCD or even get one from an otherwise empty GCD.
    I miss that prot talent in Cata where we could just pop Divine Plea to get 3 HoPo. Used to be used for WoG with a macro to cancel the -healing from it. And funny enough it turned out to be a DPS loss to use it on CD just for HoPo so it's very possible it wouldn't even cause issues with DPS other than being able to start on the right foot without having to use a CD like HA to generate HoPo at the start.

    Agreed on pruning some CDs. We're too reliant on them as-is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
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  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    I miss that prot talent in Cata where we could just pop Divine Plea to get 3 HoPo. Used to be used for WoG with a macro to cancel the -healing from it. And funny enough it turned out to be a DPS loss to use it on CD just for HoPo so it's very possible it wouldn't even cause issues with DPS other than being able to start on the right foot without having to use a CD like HA to generate HoPo at the start.

    Agreed on pruning some CDs. We're too reliant on them as-is.
    well we can cut excessive CD's, but I doubt we'll get a proper compensation in the steady dps department, Ret is and always was centered around burst, so there.

  15. #275
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    The thing I really want is more "paladin"-feeling.
    Aura's and Seals, I want more of them with more specific uses.
    And I want a paladin-capital :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Well they always tend to make pretty hefty changes with each expansion. So here's my general guess:

    They'll swap around our gear priorities. Making ret more crit centered to distinguish specific choices we make in gear and enhancement of that gear for Prot. Prot meanwhile will remain haste-centric.
    I was hoping my prot and ret spec could use the same Haste/Mastery-gear..
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Try to boil everything down to a negative catch phrase all you want. We're still going to spend countless hours making Warlords of Draenor the most epic expansion possible.

  16. #276
    One thing that I'd like to see is a Titan's Grip/SMF style play for Ret. Having the option to use either a 2h or a 1h/shield for dps sounds like it could be very interesting! Of course, that could be a whole fourth spec in some future expac. Shield-centric damaging attacks would be an awesome addition imo. Whether this would be better as a fourth spec or if spells would just alter themselves upon changing "stances" I'm not sure.

    Overall though I'm very happy with Ret as it is now. When HoPo first was introduced I hated it (and main-swapped for many months), but after coming back to it and giving it a chance, it feels very solid. Mostly I hope they don't break Ret in the expac by trying to fix button-bloat. Yes, we have many buttons we can press, but in the end I think we have a very concise rotation for normal play. The argument can be made that GoAK and AW could be combined, or one dropped, but I personally like them both and would miss them if one left.

    Oh, and bring Consecration back to Ret! I miss that.

  17. #277
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Funnily enough as someone wholeheartedly against "button bloat" I find Ret to be fairly good with it, beyond the obvious things I've said above. It's not as bad as say, a Warrior that needs a ton of situational keybinds for things used once in a blue moon like Disarm or Hamstring plus three banners plus two shouts plus like three or four cooldowns, etc.

    I don't mind Ret being tailored for burst because when I think of the image of a paladin laying some holy justice, it's in a burst of energy DBZ style, exploding with holy light to vanquish a foe with one powerful strike.
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  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Funnily enough as someone wholeheartedly against "button bloat" I find Ret to be fairly good with it, beyond the obvious things I've said above. It's not as bad as say, a Warrior that needs a ton of situational keybinds for things used once in a blue moon like Disarm or Hamstring plus three banners plus two shouts plus like three or four cooldowns, etc.

    I don't mind Ret being tailored for burst because when I think of the image of a paladin laying some holy justice, it's in a burst of energy DBZ style, exploding with holy light to vanquish a foe with one powerful strike.
    ...and if we've learned anything about such design from the past 8 years of Retpaladin, is that said design tends to fail and leave aforementioned spec in godawful state.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyese View Post
    A) HoPo to start at 3, or let us generate them out of combat in PvE. It feels kind of lame to me to have to spend GCDs to build up to a buff before getting to do any direct damage (compared to DKs who can start the pull with both diseases up using Outbreak).
    They've specifically stated they don't want this to happen. As a healer I can say you should be kind of thankful. Keeping full HP banked and rolling a mastery shield on the tank pre pull gets really tedious when the pull doesn't actually take place for another 3 minutes.

    B) CD pruning. I like GC's idea to have a big cd for each spec instead of multiple smaller ones. If there were conditionals and a way to avoid macro'ing them, I could see something like "When you crit, push this to do 20% more damage!" to reward situational awareness.
    They should just bite the bullet and make cooldowns unusable in conjunction with one another. If they're going down the 'you only have one main cooldown' route they need to make them more like Holy Avenger and less like Wings.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    They should just bite the bullet and make cooldowns unusable in conjunction with one another. If they're going down the 'you only have one main cooldown' route they need to make them more like Holy Avenger and less like Wings.
    well just by looking at how much of a synergy some cooldowns provide between each other - Wings+Zealotry, Recklessness+Banner etc, I'm sure the outcry would be deafening if said nerf had taken place.

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