A bigger output of sustained dps for ret! The burst is great, and handy for pvp, but I just want to be able to hold on to some higher dps and feel like I provide more than just a few buffs!
A bigger output of sustained dps for ret! The burst is great, and handy for pvp, but I just want to be able to hold on to some higher dps and feel like I provide more than just a few buffs!
It's pretty sad that class stacking is STILL essentially going on even when they recognized it as a problem back when I played regularly (WotLK). "Bring the player, not the class" was their goal. Seems to have failed years later. I noticed Exorsus (3rd) had a ret paladin in their kill but you couldn't even see him on damage meters in their video. Side note, I noticed Vigil also had one and surprisingly they were 5th or 6th on damage. Wonder if they just outgeared the rest of the raid.
No, I can play paladin perfectly fine. I just don't like Holy Power. I thought it was stupid when they announced it and my opinion hasn't changed.
Also, playing Ret is boring as all hell. Because of Holy Power. Standing there while you white hit while waiting for your CD to finish so you can use TV. Oh boy. Fun.
All i want for pallies (well Ret, since that what i play) is the ability to spread censure, more defensives for PvP (something that tells enemy players that it would be a waste of time to attack the Ret pally now) and a CC break/immunity similar to most other melee classes i.e. War berserker rage, DK icebound fort/pillar of frost...or just make us more "RETRIBUTIVE" seems like WW monks are more retribution than we are with karma damage reflect.
Last edited by Omaski; 2014-01-23 at 01:43 AM.
It doesn't just depend on that. It also depends on white hitting until CS, Exo, or Judgement come off of CD. And that's if your Inquisition doesn't need to be refreshed. RNG based toons are boring.
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They used to have that with Eye for an Eye. Those days are gone now.
I would like to see a down play in Holy. Man, the spec is such a fixture it's become tiresome to see.
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I also wouldn't mind if they gave the old Holy Shield spell back; partially due to the nice animation, and partially due to the fact that Prot Paladins just feel so damn...passive these days, with a damage reduction built into SoTR and so on.
Right, all melee classes have dependence on white hitting. If you're a warrior not white hitting, you don't get rage. If you're enhance not white hitting, you don't get MW procs. How on earth is this "shocking" to you.
1) How is Inquisition RNG? It's very determined.
2) Almost all classes have RNG in their rotation. Not having RNG means you have zero need to be reactive and you could just fucking Auto-It your entire rotation; *that* is what is boring.
It can't be a goal until some classes are obviously op in dps / healing / tanking.It's pretty sad that class stacking is STILL essentially going on even when they recognized it as a problem back when I played regularly (WotLK). "Bring the player, not the class" was their goal.
To be fair you don't play ret and expect to top meters, you play ret to be an asset to your raid with your strong utility abilities and knowing how / when to use them correctly is more important than your dps (imo). Any top 3 world guild would only use rets if dps wasn't an issue for a fight or if they needed more devo auras than their tankadin/holydins provides, if rets did as much dps as rogues or warriors we'd be grossly overpowered with our current utility and our survival is one of the best, if not THE best, of all melee dps specs.
Take this advice if you want to top meters, go play warrior or rogues (feral druids as well atm) because ret is not a spec that's ever going to be "top".
Now the discussion, would/should we lose some of our utility and get a bigger dps in raids? are we a dps spec or a utility spec? Personally I like having tools to save people in raids, selfless healer, bops, LoH, sacrifices, salvation to moron warlocks and warriors that pull aggro on adds? I find it more enjoyable the way it is now.
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"Bring the player, not the class" is still somewhat true though. In sub world 50 it really (honestly) doesn't matter if you have 2 rets on roster or a frostmage (he'd be bad) because you're not in the extreme progression race. For the top 10 guilds you'd have maybe 30-40 raiders on roster, each of those raiders aren't bound to ONE class/spec. They can play a lot of class/spec combinations and they do so whenever it's needed for a fight. On that level being a good raider with high attendance and understanding of the fight is the important factor and then they just jump to whatever class/spec is best suited for the role that needs to be done. Now (sadly) because the top 10+ guilds progress insanely fast it means DPS is going to be an issue which means they'll most likely only take the best suited specs for each encounter. And because rets are relatively weak on throughput dps it means we don't see many of them at that level. The second you start looking outside the insane competitive scene you'll see a lot of rets popping up...
But seriously, stop thinking that your effective DPS is the only thing that matters, esp if you're a ret.
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If you feel it's that bad then your haste rating must be really low, 17k haste and I have maybe 1-2 gaps in my rotation per minute and they're usually regained due to movement or having to deal with actual mechanics. If I got nothing else to do I just refresh my Sacred Shield (if I have it specced) and take less damage.
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Rallying Cry and Skull Banner say hi. Note that no other class provides these things, and the limit on number of tanks means you're bringing Fury if you want them. Also, Safeguard > Hand of Sacrifice, just thought I'd point that out since we have to glyph ours not to be a liability, and they didn't even give us said glyph until 5.4!
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Devo - Rallying Cry
nothing - Skull Banner (skull banner is insanely strong in world 1st races)
Lay on Hands - Nothing
Selfless Healer - Nothing
Sacrifice (keep in mind we can spec + glyph for it)- Safeguard
BoP (x2 with spec) - Nothing
Salvation (situational I'll admit) - Nothing
Hand of Purity (useful in some situations throughout MoP) - Nothing
Light's Hammer (very strong in certain raid stack fights or moments) - Nothing
Cleanse (on some fights insanely strong) - Nothing
and that's just some of it... Yes sure warriors have certain things to do specialty jobs, all classes/specs do. But none has anything close to what rets have atm, that's ONE of the reasons why ret dps has to be lower... the other one being pvp burst.
But lets get back on topic, shall we?
Ret needs a way to break stealth classes or hit things we can't target. Warlocks have rain of fire, mages have a billion spells, druids have typhoon and hurricane etc, rogues have FoK, warriors can thunderclap or shout... Rets have? Blinding Light... or if we specced for it Light's Hammer. I'd love to see HotR target requirement go away but I doubt it'll happen, easy to work around the holy power generation if they choose to do so though. Simply make it give 1 holy power if it hits 1 or more targets (max 1 holy power per cast of ability).
Not just for PvP (which is my main issue atm) but also for PvE where it's annoying as hell to chase after mobs that suddenly change direction or run off to a ranged who aggroed or a tank that leaped away etc. Just being able to do something without constantly being on top of a target would be so nice... just a quality of life change but still kinda important, esp for pvp.
Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2014-01-25 at 10:50 PM.
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I'm not sure that's so much the case. Right now Paladins largely bring healing utility. As you mentioned Devotion Aura = Rallying Cry; Sacrifice = Safeguard (both pretty much require a spec/glyph). Paladins bring some extra situation utility (Hands, Cleanse) while Warriors bring DPS buffs (Skull Banner, Shattering Throw).
Overall the DPS buffs IMO are stronger than the healing utility but of course Paladins have more healing utility than Warriors DPS buffs besides the banner (ST IIRC is not that strong). Extra healing (45 talents) can be comparable to a warrior's survival toolkit (many more defensive CD's).
When it comes to PvE raiding situations, I feel Warriors should not do some much "extra DPS" as in a tax, but probably should and in fact right now definitely do have more "broad" means to DPS since after all, they have two DPS specs. So for instance, they handle AoE (8 target), cleave (3 target) and ST and burst situations better than Ret, although IMO marginally.
When it comes to PvP it's a different ballpark since healing and group utility and CC comes into play a not more, but I'm not really an expert at this area.