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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    if rets did as much dps as ... warriors we'd be grossly overpowered with our current utility
    Rallying Cry and Skull Banner say hi. Note that no other class provides these things, and the limit on number of tanks means you're bringing Fury if you want them. Also, Safeguard > Hand of Sacrifice, just thought I'd point that out since we have to glyph ours not to be a liability, and they didn't even give us said glyph until 5.4!
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

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  2. #642
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Rallying Cry and Skull Banner say hi. Note that no other class provides these things, and the limit on number of tanks means you're bringing Fury if you want them. Also, Safeguard > Hand of Sacrifice, just thought I'd point that out since we have to glyph ours not to be a liability, and they didn't even give us said glyph until 5.4!
    Devo - Rallying Cry
    nothing - Skull Banner (skull banner is insanely strong in world 1st races)
    Lay on Hands - Nothing
    Selfless Healer - Nothing
    Sacrifice (keep in mind we can spec + glyph for it)- Safeguard
    BoP (x2 with spec) - Nothing
    Salvation (situational I'll admit) - Nothing
    Hand of Purity (useful in some situations throughout MoP) - Nothing
    Light's Hammer (very strong in certain raid stack fights or moments) - Nothing
    Cleanse (on some fights insanely strong) - Nothing

    and that's just some of it... Yes sure warriors have certain things to do specialty jobs, all classes/specs do. But none has anything close to what rets have atm, that's ONE of the reasons why ret dps has to be lower... the other one being pvp burst.


    But lets get back on topic, shall we?


    Ret needs a way to break stealth classes or hit things we can't target. Warlocks have rain of fire, mages have a billion spells, druids have typhoon and hurricane etc, rogues have FoK, warriors can thunderclap or shout... Rets have? Blinding Light... or if we specced for it Light's Hammer. I'd love to see HotR target requirement go away but I doubt it'll happen, easy to work around the holy power generation if they choose to do so though. Simply make it give 1 holy power if it hits 1 or more targets (max 1 holy power per cast of ability).
    Not just for PvP (which is my main issue atm) but also for PvE where it's annoying as hell to chase after mobs that suddenly change direction or run off to a ranged who aggroed or a tank that leaped away etc. Just being able to do something without constantly being on top of a target would be so nice... just a quality of life change but still kinda important, esp for pvp.
    Last edited by Huntingbear_grimbatol; 2014-01-25 at 10:50 PM.
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  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    More fun gameplay, Ret and Prot is quite boring and dull when it comes to gameplay
    This, prot is incredibly boring compared to my blood dk, and I hate that the prot pally is my main essentially, being it gears it out and I can't run heroics with the blood dk. When I mention I have both, everyone always wants the pally, and I don't get to bring the dk...

  4. #644
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    and that's just some of it... Yes sure warriors have certain things to do specialty jobs, all classes/specs do. But none has anything close to what rets have atm, that's ONE of the reasons why ret dps has to be lower... the other one being pvp burst.
    I'm not sure that's so much the case. Right now Paladins largely bring healing utility. As you mentioned Devotion Aura = Rallying Cry; Sacrifice = Safeguard (both pretty much require a spec/glyph). Paladins bring some extra situation utility (Hands, Cleanse) while Warriors bring DPS buffs (Skull Banner, Shattering Throw).

    Overall the DPS buffs IMO are stronger than the healing utility but of course Paladins have more healing utility than Warriors DPS buffs besides the banner (ST IIRC is not that strong). Extra healing (45 talents) can be comparable to a warrior's survival toolkit (many more defensive CD's).

    When it comes to PvE raiding situations, I feel Warriors should not do some much "extra DPS" as in a tax, but probably should and in fact right now definitely do have more "broad" means to DPS since after all, they have two DPS specs. So for instance, they handle AoE (8 target), cleave (3 target) and ST and burst situations better than Ret, although IMO marginally.

    When it comes to PvP it's a different ballpark since healing and group utility and CC comes into play a not more, but I'm not really an expert at this area.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I'm not sure that's so much the case. Right now Paladins largely bring healing utility. As you mentioned Devotion Aura = Rallying Cry; Sacrifice = Safeguard (both pretty much require a spec/glyph). Paladins bring some extra situation utility (Hands, Cleanse) while Warriors bring DPS buffs (Skull Banner, Shattering Throw).

    Overall the DPS buffs IMO are stronger than the healing utility but of course Paladins have more healing utility than Warriors DPS buffs besides the banner (ST IIRC is not that strong). Extra healing (45 talents) can be comparable to a warrior's survival toolkit (many more defensive CD's).

    When it comes to PvE raiding situations, I feel Warriors should not do some much "extra DPS" as in a tax, but probably should and in fact right now definitely do have more "broad" means to DPS since after all, they have two DPS specs. So for instance, they handle AoE (8 target), cleave (3 target) and ST and burst situations better than Ret, although IMO marginally.

    When it comes to PvP it's a different ballpark since healing and group utility and CC comes into play a not more, but I'm not really an expert at this area.
    When it comes to PVP Warriors shine even better than ret, warriors have tons of cc and insane dmg, not to mention Great mobility and better survivability, there is no reason to pick a Ret over a warrior or any other melee, and if you need the utility a paladin bring you are better off with a holy paladin.

  6. #646
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    When it comes to PVP Warriors shine even better than ret, warriors have tons of cc and insane dmg, not to mention Great mobility and better survivability, there is no reason to pick a Ret over a warrior or any other melee, and if you need the utility a paladin bring you are better off with a holy paladin.
    That and I feel Battle Fatigue has now reduced Ret off-healing (counterpart to warrior % damage reduction/mobility) to pretty much fucking zero now. While warrior % damage reduction/mobility doesn't suffer from that Battle Fatigue one bit.

  7. #647
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I'm not sure that's so much the case. Right now Paladins largely bring healing utility. As you mentioned Devotion Aura = Rallying Cry; Sacrifice = Safeguard (both pretty much require a spec/glyph). Paladins bring some extra situation utility (Hands, Cleanse) while Warriors bring DPS buffs (Skull Banner, Shattering Throw).

    Overall the DPS buffs IMO are stronger than the healing utility but of course Paladins have more healing utility than Warriors DPS buffs besides the banner (ST IIRC is not that strong). Extra healing (45 talents) can be comparable to a warrior's survival toolkit (many more defensive CD's).

    When it comes to PvE raiding situations, I feel Warriors should not do some much "extra DPS" as in a tax, but probably should and in fact right now definitely do have more "broad" means to DPS since after all, they have two DPS specs. So for instance, they handle AoE (8 target), cleave (3 target) and ST and burst situations better than Ret
    And this is why you don't see a lot of rets at top 5 world kills, that early in tiers gear is low so anything you can do to increase raid dps you'll do, even if ret and warr dps was the same you'd take warriors, more about crit banner being OP and should be removed but whatever.
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  8. #648
    Warrior is just in a really good spot at this moment, especially above a 570 ilvl. I'm 578 on my Ret Paladin and pretty close to my SimDPS, where my warrior still has a lot of room to grow. Had I been a warrior throughout the tier and been as geared as my paladin during Garrosh progression I feel like we would have had a much earlier and easier kill.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    That and I feel Battle Fatigue has now reduced Ret off-healing (counterpart to warrior % damage reduction/mobility) to pretty much fucking zero now. While warrior % damage reduction/mobility doesn't suffer from that Battle Fatigue one bit.
    oh and battle fatigue is being buffed up to 65%

  10. #650
    I want Prot dps to be brought up to the other tanks level so I don't feel compelled to reroll Monk for Mythic progression.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Xol View Post
    I want Prot dps to be brought up to the other tanks level so I don't feel compelled to reroll Monk for Mythic progression.
    Prot Dps is pretty good actually, the reason is that they have low base dmg but scale really well with vengeance, with high vengeance i can see as much as 700k avengers shield and i once did 1,6 mil with holy wrath

  12. #652
    Sorry but no, Paladin Vengeance scaling is crap. You'll be lucky to do half what a Warrior can do with it on Siegecrafter.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Sorry but no, Paladin Vengeance scaling is crap. You'll be lucky to do half what a Warrior can do with it on Siegecrafter.
    Personally i dont mind as long as we have eternal flame to gives that insane HoT

  14. #654
    Grunt
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    I would like to see more paladin like transmog gear , white gold etc. A nice flying mount would be nice aswell

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Sorry but no, Paladin Vengeance scaling is crap. You'll be lucky to do half what a Warrior can do with it on Siegecrafter.
    WOD will see Vengeance not affect DPS anymore. Which may be nice....Protadin DPS could easily be more than doubled.

    Personally, I've always thought Vengeance was a fairly poor mechanic. Sure, the issue it tries to address is very real but I've always thought there are other ways Blizzard could have addressed them.

    EJL

  16. #656
    More shockadin stuff!

  17. #657
    Warchief Sett's Avatar
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    While I am a fan of a flying paladin mount...


    The idea of a holy flying elekk or Sunwalker kodo is a tad bit too much to process. I think the whole diversity given to us will not let us see flying mounts for our class mounts.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
    Let's look fabulous~. A Paladin transmogrifier item list.

  18. #658
    Eh. Worgen got "running on all fours" as a mount. If they don't want to do a proper pegasus because it's too human/elf centric, they can just give us wings; crib the rigging for the animations from the Val'kyr.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

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