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  1. #1

    [Holy] Shield or no shield?

    Hey guys! I apologize beforehand if there is another similar post, but I couldn't find it, and due to my lack of sleep I might have scrolled right past it.

    However I'm wondering if shields still are a must for Paladins or is it mostly for looks nowdays? I can't really find any reasons not to use a non-shield offhand if it's a better upgrade, except the extra armor and looks.
    Any kind Paladin out there who wants to tell me if I'm completely nuts or not?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Shields are naturally 100% necessary for Protection and 100% useless for Retribution.

    For Holy, they're a slight upgrade over an offhand of the same quality and itemization because of the Armor (which can reduce your damage from certain raid mechanics slightly) and much more important in PVP, where it's generally a huge amount of armor. But it's not gonna be gamebreaking really.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Sketchy's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that you mean Holy Paladins, because so many of Prot spells are tied into having a shield.

    On that note: An off-hand is perfectly acceptable these days, especially if the stats are an upgrade for you.
    Back in the day, being main tank healers almost exclusively, a shield was mandatory but nowadays those
    "rules for roles" are alot more relaxed. So yes, if you have an offhand that gives you better throughput than
    the shield you're currently using, use it. =) Hope that helped.

  4. #4
    Great so I'm not completely nuts for replacing my 476 shield ^^ Thank you!

    Edit: and yes, was asking as a holy paladin

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter if a holydin use an OH or shield.. The odd chance that a holydin can block a cleave (can holydins even block after the new talent system) or make use of the extra armor, is 100% irrellevant. Shield is just pixels..

    However, only 3 specs use INT-shields, where 15 specs use INT-OH (all kinds).. This is the reason why many guilds force shields on paladins/shaman, so "only" 12 specs have to compete for the non-shield-OHs...

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    However, only 3 specs use INT-shields, where 15 specs use INT-OH (all kinds).. This is the reason why many guilds force shields on paladins/shaman, so "only" 12 specs have to compete for the non-shield-OHs...
    which is stupid.
    there are exactly SIX ITEMS for shamans in this tier which have int but no spirit on them, and those are the tier items (except for the legs). they drown in spirit. our elemental for example has 20% hit, and he cannot get lower. he takes any chance for an item without hit. if said item is an offhand frill (there are no non-spirit-int-shields) and this is clearly an upgrade, and if it is one for the sake of getting rid of some useless spirit, then he should not be FORCED to take a clearly inferior item. Our elemental shaman is using a non-spirit-staff, also to reduce his hit.
    our healing priest wants to take items without spirit, because he never is even close to oom on any given fight, so spirit is also kinda useless for him.

    this stereotyped thinking of "spirit items is only heal item" "paladins and shamans must take shields and not staves/offhand frills" and also "priests and paladins must take spellpower maces" or whatever else is out there - even "tanks must take dodge/parry items" is bullshit and as of now with MoP (and surely this will continue with the next xpac) has to stop...
    Last edited by xebtria; 2013-10-10 at 09:34 AM.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    which is stupid.
    there are exactly SIX ITEMS for shamans in this tier which have int but no spirit on them, and those are the tier items (except for the legs). they drown in spirit. our elemental for example has 20% hit, and he cannot get lower. he takes any chance for an item without hit. if said item is an offhand frill (there are no non-spirit-int-shields) and this is clearly an upgrade, and if it is one for the sake of getting rid of some useless spirit, then he should not be FORCED to take a clearly inferior item. Our elemental shaman is using a non-spirit-staff, also to reduce his hit.
    our healing priest wants to take items without spirit, because he never is even close to oom on any given fight, so spirit is also kinda useless for him.

    this stereotyped thinking of "spirit items is only heal item" "paladins and shamans must take shields and not staves/offhand frills" and also "priests and paladins must take spellpower maces" or whatever else is out there - even "tanks must take dodge/parry items" is bullshit and as of now with MoP (and surely this will continue with the next xpac) has to stop...
    My own Moonkin is also struggling to get rid of spirit.. Currently at ~16,5%..

    I'm not saying "forcing shields on paladins/shaman" is a good thing to do, only that it's common practice, to minimize loot drama..

    Regarding spell power maces... ALL healer classes can use maces, not just paladin/priest.. That was why Val'nayr was a mace...

  8. #8
    Uhh - Avenger shield- Shield- Ofc

  9. #9
    I use an offhand if it's an upgrade. I used the cricket cage thinger from SoO for a short time before I got the Norushen shield. I don't see any issue with it.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragaen View Post
    Uhh - Avenger shield- Shield- Ofc
    Holy uses avenger's shield? No.

    For the OP, use the one with better stats. The armor you get from a shield provides little benefit because most physical raid damage ignores armor anyways

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    There's a handful of places here where a shield could be useful (I can think of 1-2 fights so far), but better stats usually means better. I know for a while last tier I was rolling with the Iron Qon orb simply due to not getting a heroic shield for some time.

  12. #12
    the main reason why holy pallies(and resto shammies) use shields, is because no one else needs them.

    if you take an off hand, then when a spirit shield drops no one uses it and it gets sharded. it is overall worse for your raid as the average gear does not go up as fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by tkjnz
    If memory serves me right, a fox is a female wolf.

  13. #13
    The Patient
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    I received an offhand and didnt get to see the heroic shield drop. This happened both in DS & ToT, and I wasn't minding at all for stats, just for transmog

  14. #14
    Immortal Kellhound's Avatar
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    The only time a shield really helps is if you quest in holy, then the added armor can be nice.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herpecin View Post
    the main reason why holy pallies(and resto shammies) use shields, is because no one else needs them.

    if you take an off hand, then when a spirit shield drops no one uses it and it gets sharded. it is overall worse for your raid as the average gear does not go up as fast.
    I have rolled multiple offhands on bonus roll. Just because a paladin uses an offhand doesn't mean they are hurting their raid.

  16. #16
    High Overlord Verdell's Avatar
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    To me, it's just odd not having a shield. Like, I feel naked and such.

  17. #17
    To me a holy pala should prefer to have one in any raid fight where there is unavoidable physical damage. You'll take less damage on fights like protectors with garrotte etc (I think :P)

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    To me a holy pala should prefer to have one in any raid fight where there is unavoidable physical damage. You'll take less damage on fights like protectors with garrotte etc (I think :P)
    Nope. Bleeds ignore armor.

    The whole "take less damage" reasoning is really kind of mute. For the most part, any physical raid damage that is a real danger is made to ignore armor.

    My reasoning for wanting a shield is the same as Verdell. It feels odd not to have one.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-10-11 at 04:08 AM.

  19. #19
    Keyboard Turner
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    the absolute worst is when as a holy pally, I've coin rolled 3 Non spirit offhands when trying for tier/shields/weapons or w/e

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    But it's not gonna be gamebreaking really.
    In PvP it is, obviously.

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