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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Vattenmelon's Avatar
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    How to find great raiders?

    Hello! I am raid leader for a raiding team which now only have 6 members (I have contacts with good players from other guilds so we manage to get raids going around for the moment), all the current members are really good players and I've played with them for quite a while. I have raided with many people throughout MoP, and it's really hard to find really good people who actually learn their rotation well, deep insight of the class and perform well in raids. When I recruit people always claim "I have raided X on hc, I was top 3 on my realm, I know my class well", and when they actually dps, they are nothing special, in fact under performing, doing 120k when they should be able to do 160k. And when I tell them to go visit different guides or give them a general tip they still do not improve.

    Maybe I am a bad leader in that way, I don't know. I always try to increase my performance, sometimes use simcaft, and have always read up on tactics in detail. I frequently get complimented for my performance and people often ask me for tips.

    Is the only way to raid with people to find out how good they actually are? Only a few I've raided with that was bad in the beginning has actually managed to become really good players. Should I try to recruit on a website, with different questions? (I ask the same questions ingame when I recruit.) It feels like people always type in good merits even if they're a bad player. I play on a realm with mainly pvpers, but there are lots of guilds with hc progression.

    Why I am asking this is because I have a "dream" of one day leading a 25 man team and have good progression, but it seems very very hard to get good people, especially with that amount of players.

  2. #2
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Trade Chat isn't the worst place to find raiders, but you do need to spend time sifting through the people who wish to join.

    The best method of finding people really is just trial and error. I've been in guilds where the team has almost completely changed every 6 months, but the guild remains strong, but you only find new players by making a name for yourself, being on the forums, using recruitment tools and websites, and being proactive in Trade Chat.

  3. #3
    If you only have 6 raiders to begin with, chances are none of your raiders are great and other great raiders won't be joining your guild to begin with.

    Your best option is to find people with some potential and turn them into great raiders yourself.

  4. #4
    by looking on achivements (dates etc) to see how they are as a person, nice etc (nobody wants a screamer really.. except the -50 dkp guy, man, i wuld love that)
    ofc, to have a nice connection to people, as there is one saying (VoodooGaming), tradechat is the worst way tbh..

    by saying "you only do 120k dps when you can do 160k" is not THAT harsh if you want some good dps from a guy that mabye isnt up to par, but i'd say it can easely go wrong tho, that is if you say somthing just nuts/ridicolus or somthing

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    If you only have 6 raiders to begin with, chances are none of your raiders are great and other great raiders won't be joining your guild to begin with.

    Your best option is to find people with some potential and turn them into great raiders yourself.
    Agreed.
    It will be almost impossible to find "great" raiders that will take a chance on your 6man roster when they are just as capable of joining a proven guild with a solid 9-11man roster. You will HAVE to take on projects, initiates and greenhorns and build out from there. Unless you can fluff up the roster/performance of your guild and poach some players of course...

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    If you build a great place to raid, they will come.

  7. #7
    If you cannot even offer a full group why would a good player want to join you? There are actually enough successful guilds who can offer at least a roster capable of raiding.
    You have to step down if you really want to found a new raidgroup or go out of your way to attract good players.

  8. #8
    Your guild has to be worth joining.

    And everyone's definition of a 'good' or 'great' player is relative.
    Last edited by MrPaladinGuy; 2013-10-10 at 05:55 PM.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    If you only have 6 raiders to begin with, chances are none of your raiders are great and other great raiders won't be joining your guild to begin with.

    Your best option is to find people with some potential and turn them into great raiders yourself.
    Pretty much this. When my own guild formed at the start of Cata, we were in the same situation. People were generally bad, bosses took ages to go down and thus it was hard to recruit better players. We just pugged players from trade. Checked them on Armory, found out what guilds could generally be trusted, made friends with other guilds etc. Then we took chances with undergeared players, looking to either get back into the game after a break or newer people who seemed to have some idea of their class. We made an application template, so that we could at least sort out the really bad players. Today we're rank 200ish West and I honestly never thought that possible, when we first started out.

    It can be done, but you can't do this alone OP. We were 2 people doing it in my guild and that's been a lot of hard work and a lot of wrinkles in the process lol. But I'd really suggest you find someone you can trust and someone you think is capable of investing enough time and energy in your project. Aiming for a 25 man guild is probably far fetched and even if you managed to get enough people to go 25 man, it would likely be very hard to maintain a roster. Start by getting enough people for 10 man, when you're settled down you ask them, if they're interested in trying 25 man. Don't just drop the bomb on them, cause there's likely going to be some of them who don't want to raid 25 man.

    Best of luck OP but don't set the bar too high

    Also, if you have no previous experience in leading a guild, both in raids and outside, I'd suggest you find someone who has.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Nayelie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    If you build a great place to raid, they will come.
    Very much this. I have gotten wonderful raiders that started out as pugs, and they were witness to a wipe fest. But they liked our vibe and our raiding environment, so they agreed to join the guild.

    Building ANY raid team takes a lot of time, a lot of sifting through players, and a lot of trial and error. Recruit any way you can. Recruit low-levels that will eventually be precious gems in a raid group. Recruit friends. Recruit from websites and forums. And it doesn't hurt to recruit from trade chat. You probably won't have an all-star roster very quickly, but you'll soon have a full raid roster. From that, you'll be able to drop those that don't fit, and keep on recruiting.

    Good luck to you and your raid team! I hope it turns out great.

  11. #11
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    First as others have said you need to offer something. With only about 6 people, this sends the message that you either aren't actually raiding or that you are one of the many "scrub guilds" that you see advertise all the time saying things like "LFM for our 10-man core" and then end up never actually getting off the ground or, if they do, struggle with killing any bosses at all because they end up taking anyone who can fill a slot. In short, to a prospective raider you don't offer anything worthwhile, especially if one would have to server and/or faction change to play with you; that seems like a losing bet because you could pay $55+ to go to a server and guild that falls apart or never gets off the ground. The goal should be to make it clear this is NOT the case.

    As far as actually finding great raiders, first never believe what someone says. Lots of people claim to have been former Top 50 world players or whatever but took a break, or how they were in D&T or similar high-end guilds years ago (almost always before achievements, so there's no proof of this claim). Even if this is true you have no way of knowing if they were actual raiding members (you could have been in let's say D&T but been a friend/casual rank who never did the high-end progression fights) and in any event the game of today is such a drastic change from the game of yesteryear that even if you were in say a Top 50 guild in Vanilla, it doesn't mean you can play at a Top 50 level in MoP. You should look at performance as the key factor. Ask for WoL parses and that should give you an indication of their skill level; if they don't have any it either means they aren't serious (as almost all serious raiders know the value of WoL parses and will at least run personal logs) or that they don't want logs to be seen i.e. they aren't very good.

    In a situation like yours you need to balance it: You can't be top guild elitist but you can't take any old scrub that happens to apply either. Best thing I can say is use the resources available to you: Post on the guild recruitment forums, your realm forums, the guild recruitment forums here, etc. but be sure to explain what you are and what you're looking for. Your goal should be to make it clear that you are a group of skilled players looking for other skilled players to round yourself out so you don't appear to be the typical "We hope to raid someday" guild that goes nowhere.
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  12. #12
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Hello! I am raid leader for a raiding team which now only have 6 members (I have contacts with good players from other guilds so we manage to get raids going around for the moment), all the current members are really good players and I've played with them for quite a while. I have raided with many people throughout MoP, and it's really hard to find really good people who actually learn their rotation well, deep insight of the class and perform well in raids. When I recruit people always claim "I have raided X on hc, I was top 3 on my realm, I know my class well", and when they actually dps, they are nothing special, in fact under performing, doing 120k when they should be able to do 160k. And when I tell them to go visit different guides or give them a general tip they still do not improve.

    Maybe I am a bad leader in that way, I don't know. I always try to increase my performance, sometimes use simcaft, and have always read up on tactics in detail. I frequently get complimented for my performance and people often ask me for tips.

    Is the only way to raid with people to find out how good they actually are? Only a few I've raided with that was bad in the beginning has actually managed to become really good players. Should I try to recruit on a website, with different questions? (I ask the same questions ingame when I recruit.) It feels like people always type in good merits even if they're a bad player. I play on a realm with mainly pvpers, but there are lots of guilds with hc progression.

    Why I am asking this is because I have a "dream" of one day leading a 25 man team and have good progression, but it seems very very hard to get good people, especially with that amount of players.
    i am running into the very same thing. we only really need on full time player that knows what they are doing in order to crack down and progress swiftly only the players that we need are in guilds on the server that boast better progression even though these players never get to set foot in a progression raid group. the guilds hold on to them through sweet talk and lies just to keep other guilds from gaining the one or two players they need to push forward. They "host" blue team, red team, muave team etc that never get past preliminary bosses just to keep those players bound.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vattenmelon View Post
    Hello! I am raid leader for a raiding team which now only have 6 members (I have contacts with good players from other guilds so we manage to get raids going around for the moment), all the current members are really good players and I've played with them for quite a while. I have raided with many people throughout MoP, and it's really hard to find really good people who actually learn their rotation well, deep insight of the class and perform well in raids. When I recruit people always claim "I have raided X on hc, I was top 3 on my realm, I know my class well", and when they actually dps, they are nothing special, in fact under performing, doing 120k when they should be able to do 160k. And when I tell them to go visit different guides or give them a general tip they still do not improve.

    Maybe I am a bad leader in that way, I don't know. I always try to increase my performance, sometimes use simcaft, and have always read up on tactics in detail. I frequently get complimented for my performance and people often ask me for tips.

    Is the only way to raid with people to find out how good they actually are? Only a few I've raided with that was bad in the beginning has actually managed to become really good players. Should I try to recruit on a website, with different questions? (I ask the same questions ingame when I recruit.) It feels like people always type in good merits even if they're a bad player. I play on a realm with mainly pvpers, but there are lots of guilds with hc progression.

    Why I am asking this is because I have a "dream" of one day leading a 25 man team and have good progression, but it seems very very hard to get good people, especially with that amount of players.
    Get a pair of gloves on and sift through the shit. You will people in blues who are gods, people in top 100 in the world guilds who are shit and everything in between and around that.
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  14. #14
    You really need to start out with 3-5 excellent people in your core and build up from there. It's a lot easier if they're the dependable roles: tanks or healers.

    And then you'll have to make a thread and bump it on these or battle.net forums and hope similar minded people will join you.

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  15. #15
    You have to have something to offer.
    I don't know if I've just been lucky, but I've had close to zero trouble recruiting for my guild. I do think the fact that we're 2nd on our mega high pop server out of guilds that raid twice a week is attractive to people.

    For recruiting, I definitely emphasize the fact we raid 6 hours a week. I've gotten people from the general recruitment forums, from the server forums, and from trade chat.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedni View Post
    You have to have something to offer.
    I don't know if I've just been lucky, but I've had close to zero trouble recruiting for my guild. I do think the fact that we're 2nd on our mega high pop server out of guilds that raid twice a week is attractive to people.

    For recruiting, I definitely emphasize the fact we raid 6 hours a week. I've gotten people from the general recruitment forums, from the server forums, and from trade chat.

    and there is exactly that. the perceived notion that if a guild is not full clear week one in less hours than most spend on the first couple of bosses then the guild is shit and not worth their time.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  17. #17
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    All I can say is dont give up in your recruitment. You got 2 people and they are pretty bad or or they dont mesh well and you had a bad night, take a deep breathe and get back to the grind you have to show that you are willing to put in work to make things happen and people will stick with you. and once you get a steady group, be consistent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
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  18. #18
    The Patient BaP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    If you only have 6 raiders to begin with, chances are none of your raiders are great and other great raiders won't be joining your guild to begin with.

    Your best option is to find people with some potential and turn them into great raiders yourself.
    Very helpful post ............well not really lol

  19. #19
    Finding good raiders can be tricky - the best route is to go through friends of your guild members tho first, beyond that World of logs can be pretty helpful, but it's not the end all be all, as many people can cheese mechanics to up their dps, but in such a way that they aren't really helping the raid. My guild is in a similar position to yours, we got 8 very solid guys that show up and everyone gets along, but the 9th and 10th slot have been tricky to fill. A lot of it is trial and error, but it's important to let people know before hand what to expect from the guild, go over your own expectations, let them know if there will be stuff like constructive criticism, long nights of progression, that kind of stuff. Hell we typically will interview people over mumble before giving them a raid spot just to get a first impression even.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedni View Post
    You have to have something to offer.
    I don't know if I've just been lucky, but I've had close to zero trouble recruiting for my guild. I do think the fact that we're 2nd on our mega high pop server out of guilds that raid twice a week is attractive to people.

    For recruiting, I definitely emphasize the fact we raid 6 hours a week. I've gotten people from the general recruitment forums, from the server forums, and from trade chat.
    Er, what? You DO offer something. Two things, in fact. First, that you raid at a pace that is attractive to people who can't or don't want to raid 4 nights a week. One of the biggest issues as people move out of school, etc, is that they find they don't want to committ half or more of their evenings to a game. They have money, perhaps are in a relationship, etc and want to do other things in the evenings... but they'd like to raid. You offer a solution to that.

    Then you offer quality - you're 2nd on your high pop server among guilds that raid on a schedule that some will like.

    That's precisely what the OP needs to do - figure out what they offer and realize that it's not necessarily all progression and in game stuff that's attractive. It can be that you only raid 2 nights, but are serious and good during those nights. It can be, as it is with a friend's raid, that you raid late night. Or, conversely, early.

    OP - are there just the 6 of you in the guild period? Or are there more and just 6 raiders? You're recruiting at a hard time in the expansion to build a team - lots of people have homes and want to just clear this last tier. Too, you will have issues with the long lull between the 5.4 and 6.0 (presuming it's 9-12 months again).

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