45 min LFR queue as DPS. Yes, it's about tanks...

[Deleted]

cloth. NOT.

But I tank with my fur?

Hmm, maybe I lick it before the battle and it hardens from it. Err...

[Wildtree]

I agree with most people in this thread: the lack of tanks is a function of player impatience, arrogance and incompetence. I have 6 level 90 alts and a main (dk), most of them can tank but I choose not to in LFR because of the ridiculous amount of hate laid upon them.

it is tanks, that are giving tanks a bad name..

A most recent example. I ran SoO last night with my main (resto druid), My queue pops, I get in on Nazgrim. I was literally just in for 1 second, when the pull happened. I see right away how my healbot doesn't have a full roster. I let the pull proceed, and checked the roster more closer.
Mind you, I was a healer who got in totally fresh.. But aside from me there were still 2 more healers missing, a second tank and 3 more dps.
Six people total, with 3 key roles not filled. And yet, the one remaining tank pulls the boss.
THESE are the idiots that give the tank class a bad name. It became a habit, and with that a horrible habit, how tanks don't give a flying fuck about the state of their raid. They get in, and start pulling, as if they were the only ones in the instance. That's what lays the grounds for the tanks bad reputation.
When I enter a LFR, I don't sit outside waiting all ready to go. I have other things to do too. If I get my queue when I am in the middle of a fight or something like that, I may not have the time anymore to switch specs, or get myself otherwise prepared, I have to click to get in..
Times and again I find myself then caught with wrong gear, or even wrong spec, and I can't do anything because that kneejerk of a tank just decides to pull. God forbid he dies on the pull... Then the bitching and insulting of the healers starts, how they are too dumb to heal, and the DPS is a bunch of noobs who cannot kill trash mobs..
I know very well that many tanks are not like that... But unfortunately too many of that sort of tanks poison the class as a whole.

And, oh yeah.. The pull above... resulted in a wipe... With 2 healers (me and another) fighting for their lives to get over the time limit for determination...

[plastkaze]

I like tanking. In LFR? Not so very much.

[Itisamuh]

There don't need to be any more tanking specs; that's not the problem. The reason there's such a shortage is that most people don't want do deal with the crap tanks have to put up with. It's arguably the hardest role to play well, and they get torn apart by the others in the group when something goes wrong, even if it wasn't his fault. And many people who'd love to tank, never actually do, because they don't want to deal with that treatment while trying to learn. If people want more tanks, they should start being nicer to them.

[judgementofantonidas]

You won't get more tanks, because tanking is tied to high responsibility role, while giving no rewards for constant stress.

the one smart guy on the thread. bravo

- - - Updated - - -

If the responsibility can be fulfilled by essentially pressing one button then the task is not more difficult. Note this is just an example and not what actually happens in game but it's proof that less room for errors is not equivalent to more difficulty.

dks are the only tank class that can get by with one button tanking. it is not optimal but you can deathstrike your way through an entire LFR. been there, done that.

- - - Updated - - -

But I tank with my fur?

Hmm, maybe I lick it before the battle and it hardens from it. Err...

you have thick leather skin and many layers of fatass bear to soak up the damage.

[khalltusk]

the one smart guy on the thread. bravo

- - - Updated - - -




dks are the only tank class that can get by with one button tanking. it is not optimal but you can deathstrike your way through an entire LFR. been there, done that.

- - - Updated - - -



you have thick leather skin and many layers of fatass bear to soak up the damage.

Don't apply tanking logic in warcraft. You fight dragons and other monsters many times your size plate and leather won't stop you getting crushed :P

[judgementofantonidas]

I'm a tank, always have been right from vanilla but my own personal opinion is that I preferred the tanking model where tanks cared about threat and healers cared about keeping the tanks alive, I don't like this "active mitigation" model where now suddenly staying alive is my responsibility and threat is irrelevant. It has made me want to play tanks less...not that I'll ever do anything else!

That being said, I'd fixed the LFR queue by making LFR 40 man, same number of tanks/healers just more dps

I agree that the active mitigation bit is not as fun as it could be, but the damage was nice till blizzard threw the nerf bat at us.

[Orange Joe]

All right my friends, I'm sure some of you will say that everything is fine, roll a tank, or make some other highly useful remark, but I came here to share my thoughts on what I believe should be Blizzard's priority #1 problem to solve. And no, it's not adding more vanity pets or mounts to the game.

I've spent 45 mins in LFR queue last night as DPS. Then I got in, just to see a demoralized raid with 1 tank and a bunch of peeps jumping around on their mounts, one of whom was sharing a heart-breaking story about how he had to save 75k to buy an engineering rocket, and how he bought it in the end. Touching, truly.

I've played this game for many years and I'm a big fan of Blizzard-drug, generally.

I have 5 tanks and a bunch of other chars I like to casually play; I'm not a hardcore raider, in case it matters. I like LFR, when it's playable. I don't listen to idiots too much and zone out, doing my job, which I do very well.

Understand that solving tanks problem is easier said than done (please save your breath trying to explain it to me, I'm with you on this one), but I still believe that Blizzard needs to:

1. Allow warlocks to tank. They've given us a glyph, we are half-way there.
2. Allow shamans to tank. They've given us shield and Rockbiter, we are half-way there.
3. Allow hunters to tank. Probably a bit harder due to indirect pet control, but would be awesome.

The only way to "solve the problem" is generate more interest for people to tank. That can be achieved through letting us explore one of our old dusty classes in a new capacity.

I also believe the above would be easier to do for Blizz than invent a completely new class, and smarter in terms of player-base retention than ignoring the problem fully.

Discuss if you want, I'm going to grab a coffee.

I don't think it's a matter of needing more classes to tank. I have a pally tank myself but refuse to tank lfr with him.

[Deleted]

it's not a game's fault, it's a community fault.
everyone go dps just to avoid using their brain and see big numbers, blizz tryied to appeal to this part of the community making tanking easy as hell and with veng tanks can pull very interesting numbers but in the end a tank must be a bit aware of the situation while a derps can easily get his ass carried even in the worst situation so no, making more tanking classes wont solve the problem, to be honest nothing will change the situation right now :\

[judgementofantonidas]

Don't apply tanking logic in warcraft. You fight dragons and other monsters many times your size plate and leather won't stop you getting crushed :P

have you ever worn plate or leather armor? mail or cloth? I have.

you can get hit by a truck in well constructed and fitted plate armor.
fall off a horse once in your silk bathrobe and see how you feel.

[Sting]

I gave up on LFR. I used to duo queue with my brother with both our tanks, but SoO just completely destroyed any will I had left to run it. No matter how good of a player you are, if you queue as two tanks you're very dependant on the rest of the raid. I'm sick of the amount of afkers, alts in ungemmed/unenchanted timeless gear and just straight up bad players that cause wipes to enrage timers or who all collectively stand in the fire. Carrying those people isn't worth my time imo.

[khalltusk]

have you ever worn plate or leather armor? mail or cloth? I have.

you can get hit by a truck in well constructed and fitted plate armor.
fall off a horse once in your silk bathrobe and see how you feel.

I have once for a demonstration. But that has nothing to do with your silly statements.

You cannot get hit by a truck at any good speed and hope to either live or get up from it with out injuries. The armour might have a few dents but the person in it would be seriously hurt or dead. Considering the speed of a truck and the weight of it vs you in plate armour there is only one out come here.

But we dont have trucks in warcraft we have dragons, Dragons who can swipe out well made stone walls like they are nothing and can crush you just as easily. Or stone/mountain giants, if something like that hits you with full force you're dead if you want to apply real world logic to it. But as I said dont apply real world logic to wow as it doesnt apply.

[DeadmanWalking]

Adding Brewmasters in mop did not make the queues for LFR any shorter than they were in Cata.

[Roshar]

Too many posts to go through but I saw the OP's post and concluded that he's under the impression that adding more classes that can tank will solve the tanking shortage. It won't. The tanking classes aren't a problem, it's the players. You can make every single class in the game be able to tank and there will still be tanking shortages. Most people will shun the responsibility of being a tank and instead want to just be DPS. Tanking on every class is fun right now, but there aren't enough people who want to do it. So yeah, roll a tank if you want a quick queue, and if you don't want that and just want to be DPS, suck up the long queue times since the random grouping community has always been horrid to each other, preventing people from taking on roles with more responsibility.

[Maulis425]

it is tanks, that are giving tanks a bad name..

A most recent example. I ran SoO last night with my main (resto druid), My queue pops, I get in on Nazgrim. I was literally just in for 1 second, when the pull happened. I see right away how my healbot doesn't have a full roster. I let the pull proceed, and checked the roster more closer.
Mind you, I was a healer who got in totally fresh.. But aside from me there were still 2 more healers missing, a second tank and 3 more dps.
Six people total, with 3 key roles not filled. And yet, the one remaining tank pulls the boss.
THESE are the idiots that give the tank class a bad name. It became a habit, and with that a horrible habit, how tanks don't give a flying fuck about the state of their raid. They get in, and start pulling, as if they were the only ones in the instance. That's what lays the grounds for the tanks bad reputation.
When I enter a LFR, I don't sit outside waiting all ready to go. I have other things to do too. If I get my queue when I am in the middle of a fight or something like that, I may not have the time anymore to switch specs, or get myself otherwise prepared, I have to click to get in..
Times and again I find myself then caught with wrong gear, or even wrong spec, and I can't do anything because that kneejerk of a tank just decides to pull. God forbid he dies on the pull... Then the bitching and insulting of the healers starts, how they are too dumb to heal, and the DPS is a bunch of noobs who cannot kill trash mobs..
I know very well that many tanks are not like that... But unfortunately too many of that sort of tanks poison the class as a whole.

And, oh yeah.. The pull above... resulted in a wipe... With 2 healers (me and another) fighting for their lives to get over the time limit for determination...

That's fair, I heal about as much as I DPS so I feel you there. I HATE it when I get into an instance, need to switch specs but the tank is already off and running, so you're right it's not only the DPS that is the problem. I stated player incompetence and such, but my examples were others giving tanks a hard time. You're totally correct though, there are plenty of tanks that give tanks a bad name, they're not absolved of guilt in this dilemma.

Overall, personal responsibility and compassion are the two things that are lacking when a LFR wipes and people get mouthy. Simply, if I don't know a fight, I don't tank it. If a LFR wipes, I look to myself to see what I could do better next time. Better timing on a heal? Better use of a CC or defensive CD? Could I have pulled an add from a healer? Should I have not stood in the black stuff for so long (PROBABLY YES)? We all make mistakes, I prefer to look at my own problems before blaming someone else. If most people did this I bet we'd see a LOT more compassion and maybe quicker LFR queues.

[Scinder]

The problem with LFR is not on the tanks. Not even on the healers for the most part. The problem is inept dps players who either don't care and want to be carried or are to ignorant to know that fire is bad.

I, like many of my friends that are tanks will never step foot in LFR again because of ignorant DPS. It's a headache we don't want or need and why should we continue to subject ourselves to the constant punishment of wiping when there are better options such as Flex and Normal/Heroic raiding.

Adding more tanking classes is not the answer. All that will do is create more awful tanks. Neither tanking, healing or dps are difficult roles. It's laziness pure and simple laziness that drives people away from the LFR scene. It's hilarious that people type out "lol tanking isn't hard" when they probably can't even play their own class and role properly because if you could you would know that raid wipes are rarely the problem of the tank. In fact, I can only think of a couple times I've done LFR on an alt dps or healer where the tank was so dumb that he/she couldn't figure out what to do.

DPS players need to stop blaming the tanks and look at yourselves. When I bring my rogue, hunter or priest to do LFR, within minutes of entering I regret the decision and it's not because of the tanks. I look at the dps meters and see 10-15 DPS at sub 60K dps. I see healers doing 5-15K hps and being carried by one or two good healers. All a tank needs to do in LFR to be useful is be breathing and swapping when necessary while being a meatshield.

[Fluttershy]

Active mitigation -> screw tanking I'm out.

The new model makes tanking take much more effort and if you're stuck with a shitty tank, he'll take 3x more damage than a decent one. In wotlk you could play a warrior at a top 25guild level with just one macro for offense skills+shieldblock, and a keybind for shield wall and last stand/trinkets.

[knudnat]

I like tanking. In LFR? Not so very much.

This so many times this. It isn't that there is a shortage of good tanks, its that Bliz gave tanks a much better alternative in flex raid.

LFR was a nice idea, but unless the community at large attitude changes, it will remain the cesspool that it is. My thoughts LFR should just have a silent death for the next xpack.

[re1gn1te]

Warlocks -> Maybe? Allot of locks have been crying about wanting to tank. I still don't know if I agree tho, the glyph is nice for soloing etc but full on tanking.... eh.

Shamans -> Probably not. I don't know how in your brain shield + rockbiter = almost a tank. Allot more would have to go into the spec to make it even slightly viable. Then what do you add a fourth spec? ( that would have to almost be the case) Because you can't kill enh, allot of people ( myself included ) love playing that spec for dps. So now you're adding another spec which is allot more work.

Hunters -> No. I suppose if they also added another spec to hunters that might be ok ( but not really). There's something about being a pure class that makes it a little special.

Obviously people could easily disagree with what I said and make very valid arguments for making them able to tank, it is a matter of opinion after all. The problem doesn't lie in the number of classes that can play the role. Right now on US servers the most popular classes are hunter -> 4 tanking classes. People just don't want to tank, adding more classes that can tank won't change that by much. Obviously it won't have NO effect but it won't bring in allot of new tanks, a big % of players that would tank in the new specs would have all ready tanked on another class. Tanking just isen't appealing to allot of people, and let's be honest the community treats tanks like shit. It's no wonder people don't want to tank when tanks get shit on in LFG, made fun of and kicked. Then we move on to LFR where literally everything is the tank's fault and tanks get kicked while they've been doing a perfectly good job. Maybe if the community wants lower Q times and thus more tanks, you should start by not being complete assholes to them.

[Hitei]

This so many times this. It isn't that there is a shortage of good tanks, its that Bliz gave tanks a much better alternative in flex raid.

LFR was a nice idea, but unless the community at large attitude changes, it will remain the cesspool that it is. My thoughts LFR should just have a silent death for the next xpack.

You seem to be ignoring the main problem, despite having pointed it out yourself.

unless the community at large attitude changes

There is nothing wrong with LFR, there is everything wrong with idiots harassing tanks, despite tanks bearing the responsibility of the group.

I ran a random 5 man heroic a couple weeks back, in hopes of getting a blue weapon for an alt, and had the following happen.

Of the five people who joined the group, the four DPS and healer were in full epics, the tank was in full heroic blues (i.e. he was at the appropriate gear level for the instance). Upon entering the instance, the healer remained queued as DPS, and said "I'm going to be DPS to make this go faster" and then proceeded to spend the entire instance (SM cath) berating the tank for not pulling fast enough, wasting his time, and for dying on two occasions (once during the first mini-boss archer guy, and once during that initial pull in the courtyard area where you end up grabbing 2-3 groups). The healer was just really tearing into the poor guy, but was still diligently tanking and pulling at a normal pace, so I couldn't vote to kick the retard.

It was probably the most disgusting behavior I've seen in a long time in this game.