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  1. #481
    Herald of the Titans Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    Somehow from my point of view the problem is rather a lack of healers than a lack of tanks.
    recently I had a 45 min que as a tank for LFR, still got a bag for some strange reason but still had a long que.
    I think we can all agree that the only thing we are not missing are DPS :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    IMHO make raid that dont require tanks, problem solved.
    But what about those who enjoy and want to tank? They would be forced into a role they may not wish to play. Or they would be forced into a Non LFR raid setting which would put us back into Wrath. Some might think that's not so bad, but others would be rather sad should LFR be given up on.


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  2. #482
    It's really up to the majority of the group, which isn't tanks since there's only two of them and not so much healers since there's significantly less of them as well. Got in the 3rd wing lfr on spoils with 2 stacks of determination first thing I see is, "You are now the leader." Super, I ask in raid chat if groups were assigned or if I should start from the beginning and a resto shaman asks me to start over because the first two attempts were miserable. As im figuring out the groups the other tank asks what to do as he's never done it before, I whisper him back and explain it to him.

    This process took maybe 3-5 minutes as I was waiting on the last healer to queue in to fill groups properly, sure enough one dps starts complaining "Just go." I said in raid chat I'm explaining the fight to someone who asked and organizing groups on the off chance you don't want to wipe again. Surprisingly the whole group tells the impatient one to wait, healer drops in and I do a three line explanation of bombs/matterswap/kill kuchongs and urns first. Pull and one shot. Proceed to thok and my surge protector pops killing my PC, quickly diagnose it by turning the fan on thats plugged directly into the wall in the same socket.

    Plug PC/monitor in directly log back on no more than 2 minutes later to a message, "I'd rather just wait and not wipe a bunch more times." I gave a 3 line explanation of thok, we wiped once because people got ran over but upon saying the giant dinosaur stepping on you hurts easily downed him 2nd pull. Many people said good group, nice change of pace from normal LFR some people personally whispered thanks for leading the group (even though I did very little to be honest) and people went on their way.

    The point of my TL;DR is if every LFR went like that...I'd have no problem tanking them, none at all. The problem is a LFR where people listen and give me 3 minutes to whisper the other tank while organizing groups and then actually stand in matterswap is a 1/100 chance. At least it feels that way to me.

  3. #483
    High Overlord riptal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    When a player rolls a tank I expect them to know their role and execute it successfully, know the fights and yes explain it to the group if necessary, perform ready checks, use raid markers for attack order and do it all the time. 98% of the time none of these basic duties are being met, the tanks die and raid wipes happen, lfr groups fall apart and queues become long. Imho, raid designs need to deviate away from making 23 ppl suffer at the mercy of 2, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
    So for you, the tank role is a full time job! No Wonder why we miss so many tanks! So if we listen to you, if you want to tank you have to watch video, read guide and practice alot before entering any LFR or LFD. But if you're a dps you can go as soon as you got the requirement and yell after the tank because you died while standing in the shit!

    Maybe you forget that at the base it's just a game and you're not suppose to study hard outside the game to play and have fun! Maybe we should kick all those newbies and casual players out of the game! So after you'll have a good time playing with elites only!
    Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Keepwatukill View Post
    You can easily solo tank Emperor with my gear (560i). The way I found this out was not intentional, but the other tank I was with in LFR decided for the whole instance that taunt was part of his regular rotation and was so clueless I freaked out and started whispering him angrily to stop this craziness. He eventually AFK'd outside the door to the Emperor thinking that he would grief me and the whole raid by ensuring I was the only tank in the room when inevitably some random player starts the encounter without even knowing what they are clicking on. Everyone freaked as the fight started but I sent out one simple Raid Warning : "I will solo #yolo" and I stacked up both guys in the middle near the stairs and just ate the cleaves with no dancing and I never dropped below 75% health and eneded up #1dps and we one shotted it. This all happened while the moron other tank stood outside the door whispering me have fun wiping without me. Well I proved that theory wrong. The good tanks like myself actually love tanking whether its low level or high level content, I just simply love tanking and you need me and people like me to constantly Q for LFR and LFD to make it work. Now that the legendary quest is done for me and every single other good/geared tank in game you will not see us in LFR because the reward for the effort it takes a player like me to carry the absolutely horrendous players your are matched with is simply not there. If you want me and all the other tanks who forgot LFR after the legendary quest then give us some serious prizes for Q'ing up and carrying morons. I mean real serious rewards. I want a satchel for every boss we down and I want those satchels to be worth potentionally 10k gold plus with awesome mounts rare pets and raid supplies (feasts, flasks, potions)

    PS: I have also now stopped Q'ing nearly as much for LFD because at my gear level I can now solo heroic 5 mans, so for me to get excited again about LFD I need more prizes for that as well
    I suspected it would be solo tanked in higher gear.

    I am unsure about 10k gold per satchels thats a bit too far I think make satchels a reward for lower Tier LFRS and include more flasks or food items + gold in there. Might get more tanks to go into LFR lower tiers.

    For me I like doing LFD still once a day if I can, mainly for reputation + easy VP.

  5. #485
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riptal View Post
    So for you, the tank role is a full time job! No Wonder why we miss so many tanks! So if we listen to you, if you want to tank you have to watch video, read guide and practice alot before entering any LFR or LFD. But if you're a dps you can go as soon as you got the requirement and yell after the tank because you died while standing in the shit!

    Maybe you forget that at the base it's just a game and you're not suppose to study hard outside the game to play and have fun! Maybe we should kick all those newbies and casual players out of the game! So after you'll have a good time playing with elites only!
    As a tank I belive he is correct! The role is to protect the group and since there is only 2 of you to protect said group you better know wtf you are doing! If you want to take it easy and not have that stress then you can DPS (every class that is a tank has a dps spec they could use).

    You may see it as a full time job but I see it as playing the game properly and putting some time into your HOBBY instead of just rolling up and wasting other peoples time. If you want to play the "it's just a game not a job" card then by all means don't play the part of the game that involves other people and play how ever the hell you want no one will care!

    I really never got that argument... what other team hobby do people do yet do 0 reaserch in it or don't try to help the team by comming prepared? It's like some one being on a standby roster for a hockey team as a goalie then showing up with no glove, blocker,mask, or pads and just in regular forward/deff gear going "Ok I'm here I'm a goalie what do I do?" would you be ok with them going "lol it's ok it's just a game guys why so mad".

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    As a tank I belive he is correct! The role is to protect the group and since there is only 2 of you to protect said group you better know wtf you are doing! If you want to take it easy and not have that stress then you can DPS (every class that is a tank has a dps spec they could use).

    You may see it as a full time job but I see it as playing the game properly and putting some time into your HOBBY instead of just rolling up and wasting other peoples time. If you want to play the "it's just a game not a job" card then by all means don't play the part of the game that involves other people and play how ever the hell you want no one will care!

    I really never got that argument... what other team hobby do people do yet do 0 reaserch in it or don't try to help the team by comming prepared? It's like some one being on a standby roster for a hockey team as a goalie then showing up with no glove, blocker,mask, or pads and just in regular forward/deff gear going "Ok I'm here I'm a goalie what do I do?" would you be ok with them going "lol it's ok it's just a game guys why so mad".
    The same can be said of all roles that they must be prepared etc etc etc.

    What that guy said goes beyond that, expecting TANKS to lead the raid by default? why the fuck should they? Some people just might like the tanking aspect not leading a group of 24 unknowns. Expecting them to assign DPS markers during fights or before them etc. Surely thats a raid leaders job or DARE I fucking say it the DPS job to assign dps priority targets as they should clearly know their role right? :P (being a little sarcastic here if you didnt notice!)

    I enjoy tanking and do not mind leading LFR raids I did raid leading for years anyway so is not something i've got a problem with. But expecting all tanks to do the same is harsh and not really justifiable. Sure expect the tank to know how to play the class. I would not hurt to know the fights either. I try to learn the fights in lfr on my healer first after watching a quick video. Once ive done it on the healer I jump on the tank and will still ask the other tank/raid about anything tank specific usually how many stacks etc.

  7. #487
    I'm back Jack!! Here is a very genius idea to get more people to tank. Just give them more incentives like 1000g/2x Valor Pts or anything related to gold/vp. The only catch for them is, they have to tank the whole wing. I'm the only Genius in here. i know!

  8. #488
    High Overlord riptal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    As a tank I belive he is correct! The role is to protect the group and since there is only 2 of you to protect said group you better know wtf you are doing! If you want to take it easy and not have that stress then you can DPS (every class that is a tank has a dps spec they could use).

    You may see it as a full time job but I see it as playing the game properly and putting some time into your HOBBY instead of just rolling up and wasting other peoples time. If you want to play the "it's just a game not a job" card then by all means don't play the part of the game that involves other people and play how ever the hell you want no one will care!

    I really never got that argument... what other team hobby do people do yet do 0 reaserch in it or don't try to help the team by comming prepared? It's like some one being on a standby roster for a hockey team as a goalie then showing up with no glove, blocker,mask, or pads and just in regular forward/deff gear going "Ok I'm here I'm a goalie what do I do?" would you be ok with them going "lol it's ok it's just a game guys why so mad".
    So basically, you have your answer why you have 45 minutes wait for dps. The majority(that include the dps) doesnt want to "play the game properly" the way you want. I agree that you have some work to do to learn the fights, but that's not true that as a tank you're supposed to have way more work than the other roles. Healers should knows everything because they should be ready for damage burst. Dps should know when to move, when to dps or when to stop... No, it's not the way LFR and LFD is supposed to be. You should be able to learn while playing without enduring others sarcasm.

    The way you want to "play the game properly" is for Flex, normal and heroic mode, not for LFR! If Wow is more than a game for you, maybe you shouldnt be in LFR complaining about the tank. If you queued for LFR you should accept the fact that you could be with rookie and casual players without any experience and time for watching videos and read guide.
    Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...

  9. #489
    Regardless of the reality, tanks are viewed by many as a role that requires more responsibility and/or skill, as opposed to the DPS role. WoW will probably always have fewer tanks than we'd like, for that reason.

    Also, and this is something I've seen quite often over the years...players are very rude to tanks. Not everyone, obviously, but I bet there are a lot of players who tried out tanking and then never tried it again due to encountering abusive or otherwise toxic players in instance groups.

  10. #490
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    The same can be said of all roles that they must be prepared etc etc etc.

    What that guy said goes beyond that, expecting TANKS to lead the raid by default? why the fuck should they? Some people just might like the tanking aspect not leading a group of 24 unknowns. Expecting them to assign DPS markers during fights or before them etc. Surely thats a raid leaders job or DARE I fucking say it the DPS job to assign dps priority targets as they should clearly know their role right? :P (being a little sarcastic here if you didnt notice!) .
    For 5 mans, questing, etc I fully agree but when it comes to raiding then you are actively participating in a group activity. LFR makes it a lot easier to get said group but the responsibility of the roles remains the same as any raid. As a tank you should know the basics of the fight to be able to tank it properly in any difficulty and as such in LFR as a tank you will on average know the fight better than most as such are the best candidate to lead the raid.

    Yes dps and healers Should be as informed but in general it's not so. That is why I like to look at raids like a hockey team!

    you got your goalies = tanks .. if they fuck up or are crap / don't know what there doing then GG your going to have a bad time!
    Defense = Healers - if they don't do there job the goalie might be able to save the day once in a while but on average bad D = the other team (boss) is gonna fuck you up!
    Offence = DPS they are there to produce numbers and they all want to have the most goals and focus generally on that... sure you might find that diamond in the rough DPS in lfr that is like an O player that back checks hard... but 99% of the time there just there to put up numbers!

    I'm not saying O doesn't have a responsibility to know wtf to do but if O is oblivious to what the other team does they can still focus on putting the puck in the net and be fine... if a goalie s oblivious as to who the snipers are and what kind of setup the other team uses there gonna get light up!

    Sure you can tank without looking into it that much however why would you pick a role that clearly will have a lot of focus on you if A) you don't like the focus and b) don't want to do the research to do the role properly?

  11. #491
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    The issue is that tanking is the ONLY role where you are expected to do research outside the game and know exactly what to do when you zone in, and to top it off the others in the group will eat you alive if you mess up even if you've never actually done the fight before just watched videos or read guides, so even watching videos or reading guides may not prepare you (I know there has been MANY situations where I've read a guide to get an idea and still need to see the mechanic in action to really "get" it).

    That's why there's a shortage of tanks: You want tanks who might just do it on the side spend copious amounts of time researching the fight beforehand, but DPS (and healers to a lesser extent) can just queue up whenever and have a trial by fire. That doesn't sound a bit skewed to you? There is an imbalance here.
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  12. #492
    I think the whole LFR Queue is bugged.
    Yesterday i queued with 2 Tanks for LFR.
    It took 10 minutes to find a second TANK!
    Everything was fine: 5/5 healer - 17/17 DD's but only 1/2 Tanks

    Nope, we just queued as tank, we didn't select a second role.

  13. #493
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riptal View Post
    . The way you want to "play the game properly" is for Flex, normal and heroic mode, not for LFR! If Wow is more than a game for you, maybe you shouldnt be in LFR complaining about the tank. If you queued for LFR you should accept the fact that you could be with rookie and casual players without any experience and time for watching videos and read guide.
    The way I want the game played has nothign to do with it at all! It's a raid be it flex, normal, heroic, or LFR! You can play whatever aspect of teh game you want to play it however as soon as you participate in a group activity then it should be expect that you will be prepared to do yoru part. Granted there should be more relaxed attitude in flex but the fact remains your a tank in a raid you should know the tanking responsabilities for said raid to ensure minimal whipes! That is one thing about flex that is horrid though... whipes tend to make people flip the fuck out...but it's a raid you are supose to wipe if you fuckup!

    As well wow is just a game for me I raid/play about 4 hours a week and jump in lfr and TANK it whenever I have some extra time. As such I generaly expect the other tank to know some general info on what were about to tank. Nothign more frustrating than tossing out a "do you want tower or stay for adds" on galak and getting NO responce or a "no idea what your talking about just tell me when to taunt" ... so frustrating...just que as dps if you want to mindlessly press buttons and not care! I mean if you have 45 min que as dps and want to get a fast que then you could que as dps...watch some vids read some guides while sitting in que as dps and then once you got a good understanding of what the basics are you can start to que as a tank.

    What you see as me complainign I see as common courtesy to the other 24 people you are tanking for!

  14. #494
    They've made all original tank-spec-bearing classes' tank spec actually viable (There was a time when you pretty much only ever brought a Warrior tank), and they've added two additional classes with tank specs. The popularity of tanking has not increased. It's not about class options. It's about the actual role of a tank. The tank is viewed as having the most responsibility of all roles in the game. Tanks have to know fights more intensely than healers or damage dealers. Tanks have to know how to react to various aspects of those fights immediately. On top of this, purely based on numbers, a raid group needs considerably fewer tanks than any other role. A lot of people don't even bother to learn how to tank well (because let's face it, you really don't need to know how to tank all that well for heroic 5-mans. As long as you can pump some damage, you should have no problem tanking a 5 man), because serious raid groups are rarely ever looking for tanks.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    When a player rolls a tank I expect them to know their role and execute it successfully, know the fights and yes explain it to the group if necessary, perform ready checks, use raid markers for attack order and do it all the time. 98% of the time none of these basic duties are being met, the tanks die and raid wipes happen, lfr groups fall apart and queues become long. Imho, raid designs need to deviate away from making 23 ppl suffer at the mercy of 2, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
    Why does it have to be the tanks that does this? 98% of the times these basic duties are not met because that is not the tanks's job. It is because other peoples are not willingly to take the role and just past it on to others.

  16. #496
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veyne View Post
    (There was a time when you pretty much only ever brought a Warrior tank),
    That time was B.C.





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  17. #497
    Stood in the Fire THoyt's Avatar
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    I'm actually thankful I wasn't around for LFR. I was always a prot warrior as far as PvE went. I loved it, I actually hated DPSing in raids, but from what I've read in the past year or so since LFR went live, I can say I would have never queued just because of the mentality of the group.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Raintola View Post
    More bad tanks? Do not want.
    Why Would I want to tank for people like this? Raiding heroics on my Hunter, I tank for fun on an alt. I have had a decent enough time in LFRs, and cross realm groups. But this patch I don't need to deal with the toxic people in LFR who don't want to deal with basic raiding mechanics like threat. I have happily stayed out of LFR and found that I enjoy flex alot more.

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  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    For 5 mans, questing, etc I fully agree but when it comes to raiding then you are actively participating in a group activity. LFR makes it a lot easier to get said group but the responsibility of the roles remains the same as any raid. As a tank you should know the basics of the fight to be able to tank it properly in any difficulty and as such in LFR as a tank you will on average know the fight better than most as such are the best candidate to lead the raid.

    Yes dps and healers Should be as informed but in general it's not so. That is why I like to look at raids like a hockey team!

    you got your goalies = tanks .. if they fuck up or are crap / don't know what there doing then GG your going to have a bad time!
    Defense = Healers - if they don't do there job the goalie might be able to save the day once in a while but on average bad D = the other team (boss) is gonna fuck you up!
    Offence = DPS they are there to produce numbers and they all want to have the most goals and focus generally on that... sure you might find that diamond in the rough DPS in lfr that is like an O player that back checks hard... but 99% of the time there just there to put up numbers!

    I'm not saying O doesn't have a responsibility to know wtf to do but if O is oblivious to what the other team does they can still focus on putting the puck in the net and be fine... if a goalie s oblivious as to who the snipers are and what kind of setup the other team uses there gonna get light up!

    Sure you can tank without looking into it that much however why would you pick a role that clearly will have a lot of focus on you if A) you don't like the focus and b) don't want to do the research to do the role properly?
    Read Nobleshields post it sums it up perfectly.

  20. #500
    Group wipes and tank makes one mistake or zero mistakes, they are put up for vote kick almost immediately. DPS who are AFK or putting out sub 40k DPS are never kicked and if anyone calls them out, they band together and vote kick that person. So why would anyone want to ever tank in LFR for these worthless people? I made the call when LFR came out that I'd never tank it considering the way the worthless players verbally abuse tanks trying to learn the fights.

    I say flat out, every player who cares about WoW should avoid LFR. Leave it for the dregs of the community to wallow in. Every tier it becomes more and more a place for horrible narcissists and social misfits to abuse one another.

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