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It's really up to the majority of the group, which isn't tanks since there's only two of them and not so much healers since there's significantly less of them as well. Got in the 3rd wing lfr on spoils with 2 stacks of determination first thing I see is, "You are now the leader." Super, I ask in raid chat if groups were assigned or if I should start from the beginning and a resto shaman asks me to start over because the first two attempts were miserable. As im figuring out the groups the other tank asks what to do as he's never done it before, I whisper him back and explain it to him.
This process took maybe 3-5 minutes as I was waiting on the last healer to queue in to fill groups properly, sure enough one dps starts complaining "Just go." I said in raid chat I'm explaining the fight to someone who asked and organizing groups on the off chance you don't want to wipe again. Surprisingly the whole group tells the impatient one to wait, healer drops in and I do a three line explanation of bombs/matterswap/kill kuchongs and urns first. Pull and one shot. Proceed to thok and my surge protector pops killing my PC, quickly diagnose it by turning the fan on thats plugged directly into the wall in the same socket.
Plug PC/monitor in directly log back on no more than 2 minutes later to a message, "I'd rather just wait and not wipe a bunch more times." I gave a 3 line explanation of thok, we wiped once because people got ran over but upon saying the giant dinosaur stepping on you hurts easily downed him 2nd pull. Many people said good group, nice change of pace from normal LFR some people personally whispered thanks for leading the group (even though I did very little to be honest) and people went on their way.
The point of my TL;DR is if every LFR went like that...I'd have no problem tanking them, none at all. The problem is a LFR where people listen and give me 3 minutes to whisper the other tank while organizing groups and then actually stand in matterswap is a 1/100 chance. At least it feels that way to me.
Maybe you forget that at the base it's just a game and you're not suppose to study hard outside the game to play and have fun! Maybe we should kick all those newbies and casual players out of the game! So after you'll have a good time playing with elites only!
Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...
I am unsure about 10k gold per satchels thats a bit too far I think make satchels a reward for lower Tier LFRS and include more flasks or food items + gold in there. Might get more tanks to go into LFR lower tiers.
For me I like doing LFD still once a day if I can, mainly for reputation + easy VP.
You may see it as a full time job but I see it as playing the game properly and putting some time into your HOBBY instead of just rolling up and wasting other peoples time. If you want to play the "it's just a game not a job" card then by all means don't play the part of the game that involves other people and play how ever the hell you want no one will care!
I really never got that argument... what other team hobby do people do yet do 0 reaserch in it or don't try to help the team by comming prepared? It's like some one being on a standby roster for a hockey team as a goalie then showing up with no glove, blocker,mask, or pads and just in regular forward/deff gear going "Ok I'm here I'm a goalie what do I do?" would you be ok with them going "lol it's ok it's just a game guys why so mad".
What that guy said goes beyond that, expecting TANKS to lead the raid by default? why the fuck should they? Some people just might like the tanking aspect not leading a group of 24 unknowns. Expecting them to assign DPS markers during fights or before them etc. Surely thats a raid leaders job or DARE I fucking say it the DPS job to assign dps priority targets as they should clearly know their role right? :P (being a little sarcastic here if you didnt notice!)
I enjoy tanking and do not mind leading LFR raids I did raid leading for years anyway so is not something i've got a problem with. But expecting all tanks to do the same is harsh and not really justifiable. Sure expect the tank to know how to play the class. I would not hurt to know the fights either. I try to learn the fights in lfr on my healer first after watching a quick video. Once ive done it on the healer I jump on the tank and will still ask the other tank/raid about anything tank specific usually how many stacks etc.
I'm back Jack!! Here is a very genius idea to get more people to tank. Just give them more incentives like 1000g/2x Valor Pts or anything related to gold/vp. The only catch for them is, they have to tank the whole wing. I'm the only Genius in here. i know!
The way you want to "play the game properly" is for Flex, normal and heroic mode, not for LFR! If Wow is more than a game for you, maybe you shouldnt be in LFR complaining about the tank. If you queued for LFR you should accept the fact that you could be with rookie and casual players without any experience and time for watching videos and read guide.
Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...
Regardless of the reality, tanks are viewed by many as a role that requires more responsibility and/or skill, as opposed to the DPS role. WoW will probably always have fewer tanks than we'd like, for that reason.
Also, and this is something I've seen quite often over the years...players are very rude to tanks. Not everyone, obviously, but I bet there are a lot of players who tried out tanking and then never tried it again due to encountering abusive or otherwise toxic players in instance groups.
Yes dps and healers Should be as informed but in general it's not so. That is why I like to look at raids like a hockey team!
you got your goalies = tanks .. if they fuck up or are crap / don't know what there doing then GG your going to have a bad time!
Defense = Healers - if they don't do there job the goalie might be able to save the day once in a while but on average bad D = the other team (boss) is gonna fuck you up!
Offence = DPS they are there to produce numbers and they all want to have the most goals and focus generally on that... sure you might find that diamond in the rough DPS in lfr that is like an O player that back checks hard... but 99% of the time there just there to put up numbers!
I'm not saying O doesn't have a responsibility to know wtf to do but if O is oblivious to what the other team does they can still focus on putting the puck in the net and be fine... if a goalie s oblivious as to who the snipers are and what kind of setup the other team uses there gonna get light up!
Sure you can tank without looking into it that much however why would you pick a role that clearly will have a lot of focus on you if A) you don't like the focus and b) don't want to do the research to do the role properly?
The issue is that tanking is the ONLY role where you are expected to do research outside the game and know exactly what to do when you zone in, and to top it off the others in the group will eat you alive if you mess up even if you've never actually done the fight before just watched videos or read guides, so even watching videos or reading guides may not prepare you (I know there has been MANY situations where I've read a guide to get an idea and still need to see the mechanic in action to really "get" it).
That's why there's a shortage of tanks: You want tanks who might just do it on the side spend copious amounts of time researching the fight beforehand, but DPS (and healers to a lesser extent) can just queue up whenever and have a trial by fire. That doesn't sound a bit skewed to you? There is an imbalance here.
I think the whole LFR Queue is bugged.
Yesterday i queued with 2 Tanks for LFR.
It took 10 minutes to find a second TANK!
Everything was fine: 5/5 healer - 17/17 DD's but only 1/2 Tanks
Nope, we just queued as tank, we didn't select a second role.
As well wow is just a game for me I raid/play about 4 hours a week and jump in lfr and TANK it whenever I have some extra time. As such I generaly expect the other tank to know some general info on what were about to tank. Nothign more frustrating than tossing out a "do you want tower or stay for adds" on galak and getting NO responce or a "no idea what your talking about just tell me when to taunt" ... so frustrating...just que as dps if you want to mindlessly press buttons and not care! I mean if you have 45 min que as dps and want to get a fast que then you could que as dps...watch some vids read some guides while sitting in que as dps and then once you got a good understanding of what the basics are you can start to que as a tank.
What you see as me complainign I see as common courtesy to the other 24 people you are tanking for!
They've made all original tank-spec-bearing classes' tank spec actually viable (There was a time when you pretty much only ever brought a Warrior tank), and they've added two additional classes with tank specs. The popularity of tanking has not increased. It's not about class options. It's about the actual role of a tank. The tank is viewed as having the most responsibility of all roles in the game. Tanks have to know fights more intensely than healers or damage dealers. Tanks have to know how to react to various aspects of those fights immediately. On top of this, purely based on numbers, a raid group needs considerably fewer tanks than any other role. A lot of people don't even bother to learn how to tank well (because let's face it, you really don't need to know how to tank all that well for heroic 5-mans. As long as you can pump some damage, you should have no problem tanking a 5 man), because serious raid groups are rarely ever looking for tanks.
I'm actually thankful I wasn't around for LFR. I was always a prot warrior as far as PvE went. I loved it, I actually hated DPSing in raids, but from what I've read in the past year or so since LFR went live, I can say I would have never queued just because of the mentality of the group.
Group wipes and tank makes one mistake or zero mistakes, they are put up for vote kick almost immediately. DPS who are AFK or putting out sub 40k DPS are never kicked and if anyone calls them out, they band together and vote kick that person. So why would anyone want to ever tank in LFR for these worthless people? I made the call when LFR came out that I'd never tank it considering the way the worthless players verbally abuse tanks trying to learn the fights.
I say flat out, every player who cares about WoW should avoid LFR. Leave it for the dregs of the community to wallow in. Every tier it becomes more and more a place for horrible narcissists and social misfits to abuse one another.