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  1. #581
    Well you cant expect people to tank in LFR when even on headless horseman there is 10+ minute queue as dps, even tought you dont need any spec or gear to even tank it. on Monk and Druid i get insta queue, but on warlock it is always min. 10min waiting. Shame warlocks cant queue as tank.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Right. But if you're just 1 baddie out of 6 or 17 then you probably won't get noticed or cause the raid to wipe, while a bad tank will get noticed. LFR and LFD is really a terrible place to learn how to tank, going with people you know is much better, IE in Flex raids.
    This is a statement I can agree with. It's a terrible place to learn anything.

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamerlane2 View Post
    Right. But if you're just 1 baddie out of 6 or 17 then you probably won't get noticed or cause the raid to wipe, while a bad tank will get noticed. LFR and LFD is really a terrible place to learn how to tank, going with people you know is much better, IE in Flex raids.
    That part is true (DPS being less visible in terms of fucking up) LFR and LFD are fine for learning how to "tank" encounters for sure. Tanking is all about timing of cooldowns for survival positioning bosses/adds and taunting stuff. Its not much different from DPS aside from you get hit and are supposed to get hit.

    Those places just show you the very basics of the fight. If you plan on doing Normal mode encounters or Heroic you would normally put far more effort in.

    If you want to learn how to tank proving grounds is a good place to start for a brand new player to it.

  4. #584
    The Lightbringer Shadow the Edgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Satchels I think could maybe do with more food/flasks in there I would not tinker much with the % drop rate of mounts/pets as that could alter things too much. Perhaps give some crafting patterns depending on your profession or at least a % chance.

    I agree with you on tanking LFR for lower guild friends. I did that for my brother when he was gearing up just prior to soo. He still needs Terrace of endless spring finishing as its the only wing he is missing now! That shall be done though in due time. I enjoy tanking what makes me not enjoy it is toxic players. I've directly been flamed one for a positioning mistake on gates on my first go on the juggernaught. Since then i've had it down no problems but that one time I made mistake (even after asking for some clarification on where I will position vs where raid will be) No one answered and just said GO GO GO. I can imagine it would be worse for tanks who are new to the game and wont be able to adjust to boss fights as easy.
    Yeah, maybe like with Blacksmithing or Enchanting, some old patterns that are no longer available. That could work. It just needs something to give people incentive.

    I wouldn't worry about people yelling to do certain fights a certain way. IJ can be done literally anywhere in the room (we frequently dual-Warrior tank IJ, so we don't give a shit where we are, so long as the raid has their backs to a wall - we can Charge back in). There are so many ways do to certain bosses. Sometimes we 3 tank Nazgrim (Warrior x2 on boss, Monk on adds), we always 3 tank shamans and Garrosh, etc. but those fights can all be 2 tanked normally as well, it just changes things.

    Like, in a flex last week with a few pugs and mostly guildies, we had one of th healers literally freaking out in bent because we were going to 3 tank it to cheese the fight (toxic stream and ashen wall essentially become negligible if the tanks/healers over on the guy one know what they're doing). It was odd, to say the least.
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  5. #585
    I dont want to tank. Period.
    No matter what classes and class/spec Combos you offer me i will NOT tank.

    So no, your idea wont work if People tend to be like me. Sure i am not an archetype and there will be some People you catch offguard with such an incentive, but i hardly guess it wont be lots of.

    In Addition i wouldnt even want my class to be able to tank, cause then People would brag me into tanking.

    The real question is: Why dont People want to tank?

    I can only answer that for myself and i will:

    - for me personally tanking Comes with too much of responsibility mixed with too less of a fun factor.
    You can srew up, which mostly leads to a total screwup -> wipe.
    You can do fine, which mostly leads to a normal run without much Problems and bosses falling over quite fast.
    But you cant really do good or exceptional.
    Well ok actually you can be exeptional but not really in a measurable way.
    There is no meter available telling you that you ROCKED this one right now.
    You gotta make up for that yourself, like thinking
    "Damn those adds that spawned, i had them right away and DD´s could kill em withing seconds due to that!"

    Imagine two tanks arguing over the fact who is the better tank (Player wise, not class). One says:
    "We killed the bosses, noone besides me had aggro and noone died"

    How do you beat that? Or rather compare that?
    By noone dying to aggro while maintaining 5k more dps? Even if, are you better then? Or maybe just more luck with crits or getting hit for more revenge.
    Peopme tend to not like peens you cant compare properly.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    Yeah, maybe like with Blacksmithing or Enchanting, some old patterns that are no longer available. That could work. It just needs something to give people incentive.

    I wouldn't worry about people yelling to do certain fights a certain way. IJ can be done literally anywhere in the room (we frequently dual-Warrior tank IJ, so we don't give a shit where we are, so long as the raid has their backs to a wall - we can Charge back in). There are so many ways do to certain bosses. Sometimes we 3 tank Nazgrim (Warrior x2 on boss, Monk on adds), we always 3 tank shamans and Garrosh, etc. but those fights can all be 2 tanked normally as well, it just changes things.

    Like, in a flex last week with a few pugs and mostly guildies, we had one of th healers literally freaking out in bent because we were going to 3 tank it to cheese the fight (toxic stream and ashen wall essentially become negligible if the tanks/healers over on the guy one know what they're doing). It was odd, to say the least.
    Yeh, its something my DK friend (who tried tanking with me and does fine we cleared LFR soo gates a few times with him tanking and we've done perfect bar that one IJ wipe at the very first go.

    Old BSmith plans would be awesome. something I would endorse!

  7. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Just be more impervious to bads. I typically ignore instance chat and do what I want. I only really talk when calmly asking the other tank what he wants to tank (and if he doesn't answer, I just tank everything)
    Sorry but why should people need to do this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good. It typically shows that on line competitive PC games are played LOOOOONG after they have been published.

  8. #588
    The Lightbringer Shadow the Edgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    I dont want to tank. Period.
    No matter what classes and class/spec Combos you offer me i will NOT tank.

    So no, your idea wont work if People tend to be like me. Sure i am not an archetype and there will be some People you catch offguard with such an incentive, but i hardly guess it wont be lots of.

    In Addition i wouldnt even want my class to be able to tank, cause then People would brag me into tanking.

    The real question is: Why dont People want to tank?

    I can only answer that for myself and i will:

    - for me personally tanking Comes with too much of responsibility mixed with too less of a fun factor.
    You can srew up, which mostly leads to a total screwup -> wipe.
    You can do fine, which mostly leads to a normal run without much Problems and bosses falling over quite fast.
    But you cant really do good or exceptional.
    Well ok actually you can be exeptional but not really in a measurable way.
    There is no meter available telling you that you ROCKED this one right now.
    You gotta make up for that yourself, like thinking
    "Damn those adds that spawned, i had them right away and DD´s could kill em withing seconds due to that!"

    Imagine two tanks arguing over the fact who is the better tank (Player wise, not class). One says:
    "We killed the bosses, noone besides me had aggro and noone died"

    How do you beat that? Or rather compare that?
    By noone dying to aggro while maintaining 5k more dps? Even if, are you better then? Or maybe just more luck with crits or getting hit for more revenge.
    Peopme tend to not like peens you cant compare properly.
    There are ways to compare tanks. Less damage taken, more damage done, etc. I have everything on my Skada set up for this (Skada for Tanks from Curse, just an extra few Skada meters). World of logs is great too; me and my guildies who are tanks (4 in total, a warrior, Druid, monk, and myself, another warrior) frequently go through logs to help determine if we can make ourselves better (better defensive/cooldowns usage, etc).

    It's the same with DPS and heals. Sure, you could go by "who did the most DPS," but I'd rather have the guy who did 195k but had 50% of his DPS on the adds killing the healers than the 220k guy who tunneled the boss. More often than not, adds are more of a priority than the boss.
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  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    It's the same with DPS and heals. Sure, you could go by "who did the most DPS," but I'd rather have the guy who did 195k but had 50% of his DPS on the adds killing the healers than the 220k guy who tunneled the boss. More often than not, adds are more of a priority than the boss.
    It's usually the same people who spam /R with Skada reports after a wipe gloating how great they are and how everyone else sucks completely oblivious that they're heavily contributed to wiping (Nazgrim comes to mind....).

  10. #590
    It's not just the queues the actual runs take over 1 maybe even 2+ hours to complete for just 4 bosses. They need to make some big changes to make it actually work for the group they are targetting. I believe a dev mentioned something about doing LFR during your lunchbreak? When I heard that from Ion and Greg I just burst out laughing. LFR is almost never like that. Maybe there's a couple good groups rolling on Tuesdays but the rest of the time it's literally the most painful raiding experience I've ever had playing the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Like part one for example I did late in the week and people just dropping after every boss. Tanks wait like 10 minutes just to pull a boss staring at it. just unreal... 2-3 wipes on every boss even immerseus. What job has a lunch break that allows you to complete even a single wing of LFR...

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkles View Post
    It's usually the same people who spam /R with Skada reports after a wipe gloating how great they are and how everyone else sucks completely oblivious that they're heavily contributed to wiping (Nazgrim comes to mind....).
    I'm a very competitive person. I enjoy perfecting my gameplay/gear/etc to pump out all the DPS I can and be on the top of those charts. Being lost in the middle somewhere is never acceptable for me (while properly executing the fight, of course).

    With that said, the douchebags to which you're referring are rarely competitive on a real level. There's no sense of pride and responsibility involved in their gloating. They're the type of person that has no handicap, but goes to the special olympics to outperform those involved.

    I don't spam meters, it's stupid. People can see what I'm doing no problem, most of them have meters. I don't gloat or talk shit to other people, because I don't perform to toot my own horn, I perform because it's part of who I am. If I do post meters, it's probably in a whisper to someone who's competing with me on a competitive, friendly level and vice/versa.

    If you're good, you're good, and everyone can see it. But nobody will resepect you for winning the special olympics with no handicap when you keep throwing it in their face. They'll just come back and tell you exactly how bad you really are.

  12. #592
    Dreadlord Tarx's Avatar
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    I have a better solution add a tank spec to all classes. How it sounds you?

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarx View Post
    I have a better solution add a tank spec to all classes. How it sounds you?
    Many arguments have been made for and against this in the last 30 pages.

    Welcome to the thread.

  14. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarx View Post
    I have a better solution add a tank spec to all classes. How it sounds you?
    Like a total failure - look what happened when they started out distributing Bloodlust to multiple classes.
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  15. #595
    LFR will get better after this or next week by virtue that Garrosh is finally here and those people who only want to see the final tier boss die before unsubbing and returning when the next content drops (they dont gem, enchant, reforge, learn mechanics or give a shit). They will go back to the games they actually want to play and the competancy in LFR will go way up for a couple of months.

    But people complaining about 45 minute queues must remember a different LFR game than I do, 45 min queues have been the norm since cataclysm. If you want to jump straight to the front of the queue then make some friends that are healers and tanks. People talk a lot of crap about how LFR ruined the community but the fact is there are advantages in socializing on your server, you can skip queues and for every single person you know from your server it is one less asshat AFK or incompetent player in your LFR group. I have seen people using trade and general chat to form up server LFR groups and they have been very successful.They get as many as possible from server before going in. The only thing stopping people from developing their own community is that they are not forced to do so.

  16. #596
    Imo the benefits of signing as tank (faster queue, more impact on how the run actually goes, sometimes even an exciting bag) far outweighs the risk of being flamed. Just be good enough to know when people are wrongly accusing you of shit, because 9/10 times people just need someone to vent their frustration on and if you dont have a dps meter its hard to pinpoint a dps compared to a tank. Seems like everyone in here at least agrees that everyone else in lfr are frustrated children, so I cant understand why you let them get to you.

  17. #597
    Brewmaster Notos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Like a total failure - look what happened when they started out distributing Bloodlust to multiple classes.
    How on earth is that an example of a failure? Adding Time Warp and Ancient Hysteria to the game was a great move on their part. Not to mention the flawed comparison, unless you're saying that use of that cooldown has decreased or stayed the same, which would be completely false.
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  18. #598
    High Overlord riptal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarx View Post
    I have a better solution add a tank spec to all classes. How it sounds you?
    You miss the point... You should read at least e few posts in thread before posting.

    The real problem is majority dont want to tank anymore because it's just not fun! As a heal or dps you can chill and have fun, chat with others. You can make some mistakes but it's ok if you're at least decent. Sadly, a tank should be just perfect! He cannot have fun, he must work hard and he cannot make a single little mistake because people notice and let him know how bad he is. That's the problem! I dont want to tank either in LFR.
    Not sure if I'm a good guy but I'm working hard on it...

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by riptal View Post
    You miss the point... You should read at least e few posts in thread before posting.

    The real problem is majority dont want to tank anymore because it's just not fun! As a heal or dps you can chill and have fun, chat with others. You can make some mistakes but it's ok if you're at least decent. Sadly, a tank should be just perfect! He cannot have fun, he must work hard and he cannot make a single little mistake because people notice and let him know how bad he is. That's the problem! I dont want to tank either in LFR.
    LMAO


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    Here is where at least half of the tanks in LFR actually are ->> -----

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Hrungne View Post
    Imo the benefits of signing as tank (faster queue, more impact on how the run actually goes, sometimes even an exciting bag) far outweighs the risk of being flamed. Just be good enough to know when people are wrongly accusing you of shit, because 9/10 times people just need someone to vent their frustration on and if you dont have a dps meter its hard to pinpoint a dps compared to a tank. Seems like everyone in here at least agrees that everyone else in lfr are frustrated children, so I cant understand why you let them get to you.
    On about half of my LFR runs as a tank, I just feel exhausted from having to drag the group through the instance. It's not fun.

    I've got 10 LFR macros on my tank, most of them /rw. Things like /rw FOCUS SKULL, /rw STOP DPS ON BOSS, and /rw KILL THE ADDS!!!!. So I have those keybinds on top of all my tanking keybinds. I often will have to absolutely spam the /rw macro (like hit it 10 times) and still people will be DPSing the wrong target, not killing adds, etc.

    It just get exhausting most of the time.

    Now of course there are good runs that make me feel better, but it seems they are few and far between these days.

    Compare that to my flex runs where I'm pugging with my tank. The raid has a leader, the people pay attention to their responsibilities, and I can just tank and be part of the raid (as opposed to dragging the raid to victory). Oh, and it drops 540 ilvl gear too!

    So why am I running LFR? . . . . I'm not anymore on any of my tanks (paly and warrior).
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